Run HDMI from DVD to TV. What about audio?

k-man wrote:
Hi Phil:

I still don't understand. I don't know anything about a cable being
fixed.

HDMI 1.3 is an update to the HDMI specification. AIUI, it mandates
higher bandwidth to enable 1080p and deep color (deeper than HDTV
specs). It also specifies changes in the protocol so that processing
delay times can be communicated between the source and the display. This
allows the two devices to attempt to counter the processing time to
avoid lip sync issues.

On Jul 13, 8:19 am, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:38:06 -0000 k-man wrote:

| Phil:
|
| Who said anything about the cable putting things out of sync? From
| WGD's info, it talks about processing time. At least, that's how I
| interpreted it in this particular message.

So you are saying the cable is not the source of the problem? Yet why
is the cable being fixed to correct the problem?

If something is doing some processing in the wrong way, then fix that
processing.

It's all about the communications. HDMI is a communications standard
that specifies the electrical characteristics of the cable *AND* the
protocol use to communicate over the cable. The cable is the medium for
the communications. Changing the protocol used over the cable requires a
change to the cable system specification. If there were no electrical
changes to the cable specifications, I would have called it HDMI 1.2.1,
but they changed both at the same time, hence HDMI 1.3.

Matthew

--
I'm a consultant. If you want an opinion I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 20:37:31 -0400 Matthew L. Martin wrote:

| HDMI 1.3 is an update to the HDMI specification. AIUI, it mandates
| higher bandwidth to enable 1080p and deep color (deeper than HDTV
| specs). It also specifies changes in the protocol so that processing
| delay times can be communicated between the source and the display. This
| allows the two devices to attempt to counter the processing time to
| avoid lip sync issues.

The display would be able to do something like tell the player "hey, I am
delaying the video by 851.375 milliseconds, so you should delay audio to
the stereo system by the same amount so the organics won't know I'm so
slow at this".

It would really suck for games, though.


| It's all about the communications. HDMI is a communications standard
| that specifies the electrical characteristics of the cable *AND* the
| protocol use to communicate over the cable. The cable is the medium for
| the communications. Changing the protocol used over the cable requires a
| change to the cable system specification. If there were no electrical
| changes to the cable specifications, I would have called it HDMI 1.2.1,
| but they changed both at the same time, hence HDMI 1.3.

They should have ... from the very beginning ... just used 75 ohm coax for
the connection. They can still encrypt the data stream and do two-way
communications. With multilevel signals, the bandwidth can be quite high.

The audio should have been transmitted with the video, and time tagged.
Then the audio output to stereo systems would be from the display itself,
instead of requiring _every_ source device having to incorporate a delay
mechanism.

Additionally, a multi-device protocol would allow the source to device to
receive multiple display device keys over the same coax, and send multiple
decode keys in the main band signal. Then you can have a multi-room system
on one coax output (of the same program content).

But no ... the cable and connector manufacturers have to come up with yet
a new and more expensive standard.

--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|

Ahhhhh, I see now about the change in the cable. I didn't realize
exactly the new spec details. I thought it was just a protocol
change. I got it now.

Thanks
Kevin


On Jul 14, 8:37 pm, "Matthew L. Martin" wrote:
k-man wrote:
Hi Phil:

I still don't understand. I don't know anything about a cable being
fixed.

HDMI 1.3 is an update to the HDMI specification. AIUI, it mandates
higher bandwidth to enable 1080p and deep color (deeper than HDTV
specs). It also specifies changes in the protocol so that processing
delay times can be communicated between the source and the display. This
allows the two devices to attempt to counter the processing time to
avoid lip sync issues.

On Jul 13, 8:19 am, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:38:06 -0000 k-man wrote:

| Phil:
|
| Who said anything about the cable putting things out of sync? From
| WGD's info, it talks about processing time. At least, that's how I
| interpreted it in this particular message.

So you are saying the cable is not the source of the problem? Yet why
is the cable being fixed to correct the problem?

If something is doing some processing in the wrong way, then fix that
processing.

It's all about the communications. HDMI is a communications standard
that specifies the electrical characteristics of the cable *AND* the
protocol use to communicate over the cable. The cable is the medium for
the communications. Changing the protocol used over the cable requires a
change to the cable system specification. If there were no electrical
changes to the cable specifications, I would have called it HDMI 1.2.1,
but they changed both at the same time, hence HDMI 1.3.

Matthew

--
I'm a consultant. If you want an opinion I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?

I understand about the cable change now. Thanks.

Kevin




On Jul 14, 11:13 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 20:37:31 -0400 Matthew L. Martin wrote:

| HDMI 1.3 is an update to the HDMI specification. AIUI, it mandates
| higher bandwidth to enable 1080p and deep color (deeper than HDTV
| specs). It also specifies changes in the protocol so that processing
| delay times can be communicated between the source and the display. This
| allows the two devices to attempt to counter the processing time to
| avoid lip sync issues.

The display would be able to do something like tell the player "hey, I am
delaying the video by 851.375 milliseconds, so you should delay audio to
the stereo system by the same amount so the organics won't know I'm so
slow at this".

It would really suck for games, though.

| It's all about the communications. HDMI is a communications standard
| that specifies the electrical characteristics of the cable *AND* the
| protocol use to communicate over the cable. The cable is the medium for
| the communications. Changing the protocol used over the cable requires a
| change to the cable system specification. If there were no electrical
| changes to the cable specifications, I would have called it HDMI 1.2.1,
| but they changed both at the same time, hence HDMI 1.3.

They should have ... from the very beginning ... just used 75 ohm coax for
the connection. They can still encrypt the data stream and do two-way
communications. With multilevel signals, the bandwidth can be quite high.

The audio should have been transmitted with the video, and time tagged.
Then the audio output to stereo systems would be from the display itself,
instead of requiring _every_ source device having to incorporate a delay
mechanism.

Additionally, a multi-device protocol would allow the source to device to
receive multiple display device keys over the same coax, and send multiple
decode keys in the main band signal. Then you can have a multi-room system
on one coax output (of the same program content).

But no ... the cable and connector manufacturers have to come up with yet
a new and more expensive standard.

--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------*|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------*|

Bill:

I think it's got two optical inputs.

The OPPO definitely looks good. The Onkyo's supposed to arrive
tomorrow. It's DCDi circuitry's supposed to upres 480i to 480p. I'll
hook up my very old (not even progressive) DVD player to it just to
see how it looks. BUt first I think I need to order an HDMI cable. I
don't think the receiver comes with one.

Kevin

On Jul 14, 8:21 pm, willbill wrote:
k-man wrote:

The Onkyo SR605 is a receiver/amp, not a DVD player.

ah

out of honest curiosity, how many optical inputs
does it have for multichannel digital audio?

anyways... if you haven't yet gotten the DVD player,
go with the OPPO 980. it does a great uprez job
(so long as your TV has an HDMI input), and plays
every disk out there, with the exception of DVD-RAM

bill

k-man wrote:

Bill:

I think it's got two optical inputs.


agreed

as well as at least one coax digital audio input,
not to mention the 2 HDMI inputs. after my last
post, i went to www.us.onkyo.com and took a quick
glance at your new SR605 A/V receiver

in my experience/knowledge (admittedly still limited),
2 fiber/optical and 2 HDMI should be adequate for
"high end" multichannel sound. plus if you get
additional DVD players/recorders (i've got 3 total)
you can always fall back to coax digital audio input



The OPPO definitely looks good.


the reason i bought the OPPO 981 was my long
interest in sound. both the 970 ($149) and
981 ($229) play multichannel SACD and DVD-A
(DVD-Audio). of the two, as far as i know
at this point, the SACD has the higher sound
fidelity and bigger selection of real music
of all kinds (i've gotten only 5 SACD audio
disks so far, and can add that the sound is
rather excellent compared to the best CDs).
my A/V Receiver (AVR; a Denon 2307CI) is recent
but "older" in terms of specs than the very new
Onkyo SR605 that you got, but still slightly
more "upscale" in the number of I/O options
on the back of the unit, meaning that for sound
it has 4 optical inputs, 2 coax, 2 HDMI (ver 1.1),
*and* an external-in 5.1 set (6 RCA input jacks,
for a player (like the OPPO 981 that has
6 multichannel audio *output* jacks)

if you have any interest in getting SACD disks,
odds are you'll have to buy online from:
1. http://store.acousticsounds.com/store.cfm
2. www.amazon.com
3. www.tower.com

if that's an interest for you, before you do it
(i.e. buy an OPPO 981 (the 970 doesn't look to me
like an option for you)), i suggest strongly that
you call OPPO on the telephone. i've done that
once so far and got useful answers and was overall
quite impressed with their phone support (less
than a minute wait time) and the accurateness
of their answers. the question is: given that
you don't have 5.1 RCA input jacks on your AVR,
will you be able to carry decoded SACD sound via
the OPPO's HDMI output cable, *and* will your
AVR be able to understand that it is already
decoded?


The Onkyo's supposed to arrive tomorrow.


that should be interesting.

good luck with getting it set up.

assuming you're going to hook it up yourself,
it looks to me that you've got a lot of options/
alternatives on how you actually do it

e.g. my on-line glance (yesterday) at your AVR
suggests to me that it may be more convenient
than mine in terms of handling both video/audio
via the AVR's remote. i decided to use my TV
(a very recent Vizio 32") to do my video switching,
and my Denon AVR to do my audio switching.
fwiw, i currently have 4 multichannel audio inputs
into the AVR: 3 non-decoded optical (TV and 2 Panasonic
DVD recorders) and the decoded ext-in via the 6 RCA jacks

i can add that when i got my Denon i spent 5 hours (!)
trying to get it to work and struck out! i've done
computer s/w all my professional life so i have good
understanding of complexity. after sleeping on it
i turned to the troubleshooting at the back of the
manual and finally found page 49 where the digital
audio input options is shown

you might consider posting your own experience.
i for one would find it useful/interesting


It's DCDi circuitry's supposed to upres 480i to 480p.


i'm not sure what DCDi means, but given that you appear to
have a recent 46" Aquos, upres of 480i to 480p by the AVR
isn't much. what caught my eye is that your new AVR specs
mentioned "Faroudja" which suggested to me that your new
AVR may do upresing to 720p or 1080i (or 1080p), whichever
is the native res of your 46" Aquos flatscreen

if that's true, then the OPPO 981 may not have much
to offer you. i bought it coz of it's ability to
handle all disks that i've recorded on my PC (with
the exception of DVD-RAM), as well as it's player
ability to upres to 720p (my Vizio 32's native),
and especially it's SACD/DVD-A capabilities


I'll
hook up my very old (not even progressive) DVD player to it just to
see how it looks. BUt first I think I need to order an HDMI cable. I
don't think the receiver comes with one.

the OPPO 981 comes with an excellent 6' HDMI cable. given the
size of your 46" Aquos, you may need a 10' HDMI (or longer)

i got mine at www.monoprice.com and plan to buy from them again

bill

On Jul 16, 3:07 pm, willbill wrote:
k-man wrote:
Bill:

I think it's got two optical inputs.

agreed

as well as at least one coax digital audio input,
not to mention the 2 HDMI inputs. after my last
post, i went towww.us.onkyo.comand took a quick
glance at your new SR605 A/V receiver

in my experience/knowledge (admittedly still limited),
2 fiber/optical and 2 HDMI should be adequate for
"high end" multichannel sound. plus if you get
additional DVD players/recorders (i've got 3 total)
you can always fall back to coax digital audio input



The OPPO definitely looks good.

the reason i bought the OPPO 981 was my long
interest in sound. both the 970 ($149) and
981 ($229) play multichannel SACD and DVD-A
(DVD-Audio). of the two, as far as i know
at this point, the SACD has the higher sound
fidelity and bigger selection of real music
of all kinds (i've gotten only 5 SACD audio
disks so far, and can add that the sound is
rather excellent compared to the best CDs).
my A/V Receiver (AVR; a Denon 2307CI) is recent
but "older" in terms of specs than the very new
Onkyo SR605 that you got, but still slightly
more "upscale" in the number of I/O options
on the back of the unit, meaning that for sound
it has 4 optical inputs, 2 coax, 2 HDMI (ver 1.1),
*and* an external-in 5.1 set (6 RCA input jacks,
for a player (like the OPPO 981 that has
6 multichannel audio *output* jacks)

if you have any interest in getting SACD disks,
odds are you'll have to buy online from:
1.http://store.acousticsounds.com/store.cfm
2.www.amazon.com
3.www.tower.com

if that's an interest for you, before you do it
(i.e. buy an OPPO 981 (the 970 doesn't look to me
like an option for you)), i suggest strongly that
you call OPPO on the telephone. i've done that
once so far and got useful answers and was overall
quite impressed with their phone support (less
than a minute wait time) and the accurateness
of their answers. the question is: given that
you don't have 5.1 RCA input jacks on your AVR,
will you be able to carry decoded SACD sound via
the OPPO's HDMI output cable, *and* will your
AVR be able to understand that it is already
decoded?

The Onkyo's supposed to arrive tomorrow.

that should be interesting.

good luck with getting it set up.

assuming you're going to hook it up yourself,
it looks to me that you've got a lot of options/
alternatives on how you actually do it

e.g. my on-line glance (yesterday) at your AVR
suggests to me that it may be more convenient
than mine in terms of handling both video/audio
via the AVR's remote. i decided to use my TV
(a very recent Vizio 32") to do my video switching,
and my Denon AVR to do my audio switching.
fwiw, i currently have 4 multichannel audio inputs
into the AVR: 3 non-decoded optical (TV and 2 Panasonic
DVD recorders) and the decoded ext-in via the 6 RCA jacks

i can add that when i got my Denon i spent 5 hours (!)
trying to get it to work and struck out! i've done
computer s/w all my professional life so i have good
understanding of complexity. after sleeping on it
i turned to the troubleshooting at the back of the
manual and finally found page 49 where the digital
audio input options is shown

you might consider posting your own experience.
i for one would find it useful/interesting

It's DCDi circuitry's supposed to upres 480i to 480p.

i'm not sure what DCDi means, but given that you appear to
have a recent 46" Aquos, upres of 480i to 480p by the AVR
isn't much. what caught my eye is that your new AVR specs
mentioned "Faroudja" which suggested to me that your new
AVR may do upresing to 720p or 1080i (or 1080p), whichever
is the native res of your 46" Aquos flatscreen

DCDi is an algorithm used for deinterlacing. With the Faroudja chip/
circuitry, it doesn't automatically mean that you get everything
converted to 1080p. It depends on how the Faroudja chip's being
used. I think my Onkyo converts 480i to 480p so you can use the HDMI
output. 480p should also be smoother visually. A site somewhere
mentioned a "trick" to get the receiver to do 720p but they said that
it only did a so-so job of doing that. Native res for my Aquos is
1080p. If you put a 1080p signal into the receiver, the receiver will
not attempt to upscale it but will simply pass the signal along to the
TV.

More info on DCDi:
http://www.av-outlet.com/en-us/dept_335.html



if that's true, then the OPPO 981 may not have much
to offer you. i bought it coz of it's ability to
handle all disks that i've recorded on my PC (with
the exception of DVD-RAM), as well as it's player
ability to upres to 720p (my Vizio 32's native),
and especially it's SACD/DVD-A capabilities

I think I would still benefit from the OPPO 981 because of the
upscaling to 1080p and its other features.



I'll
hook up my very old (not even progressive) DVD player to it just to
see how it looks. BUt first I think I need to order an HDMI cable. I
don't think the receiver comes with one.

the OPPO 981 comes with an excellent 6' HDMI cable. given the
size of your 46" Aquos, you may need a 10' HDMI (or longer)

i got mine atwww.monoprice.comand plan to buy from them again

That seems to be well-known site for cables as I just ordered some
from there as well. I went with a couple 3-ft cables but I might have
to go with a 6. I could use the 6' from the OPPO and use the 3ft to
connect to the OPPO to the reciever since they're going to be sitting
close together.

There's also a site called ehdmi.com and I think it's the same store
as monoprice.com -- same layout, same catalog numbers, same prices,
etc.


bill


Kevin

On Jul 16, 3:07 pm, willbill wrote:
k-man wrote:
Bill:

I think it's got two optical inputs.

agreed

as well as at least one coax digital audio input,
not to mention the 2 HDMI inputs. after my last
post, i went towww.us.onkyo.comand took a quick
glance at your new SR605 A/V receiver

in my experience/knowledge (admittedly still limited),
2 fiber/optical and 2 HDMI should be adequate for
"high end" multichannel sound. plus if you get
additional DVD players/recorders (i've got 3 total)
you can always fall back to coax digital audio input



The OPPO definitely looks good.

the reason i bought the OPPO 981 was my long
interest in sound. both the 970 ($149) and
981 ($229) play multichannel SACD and DVD-A
(DVD-Audio). of the two, as far as i know
at this point, the SACD has the higher sound
fidelity and bigger selection of real music
of all kinds (i've gotten only 5 SACD audio
disks so far, and can add that the sound is
rather excellent compared to the best CDs).
my A/V Receiver (AVR; a Denon 2307CI) is recent
but "older" in terms of specs than the very new
Onkyo SR605 that you got, but still slightly
more "upscale" in the number of I/O options
on the back of the unit, meaning that for sound
it has 4 optical inputs, 2 coax, 2 HDMI (ver 1.1),
*and* an external-in 5.1 set (6 RCA input jacks,
for a player (like the OPPO 981 that has
6 multichannel audio *output* jacks)

if you have any interest in getting SACD disks,
odds are you'll have to buy online from:
1.http://store.acousticsounds.com/store.cfm
2.www.amazon.com
3.www.tower.com

if that's an interest for you, before you do it
(i.e. buy an OPPO 981 (the 970 doesn't look to me
like an option for you)), i suggest strongly that
you call OPPO on the telephone. i've done that
once so far and got useful answers and was overall
quite impressed with their phone support (less
than a minute wait time) and the accurateness
of their answers. the question is: given that
you don't have 5.1 RCA input jacks on your AVR,
will you be able to carry decoded SACD sound via
the OPPO's HDMI output cable, *and* will your
AVR be able to understand that it is already
decoded?

The Onkyo's supposed to arrive tomorrow.

that should be interesting.

good luck with getting it set up.

assuming you're going to hook it up yourself,
it looks to me that you've got a lot of options/
alternatives on how you actually do it

e.g. my on-line glance (yesterday) at your AVR
suggests to me that it may be more convenient
than mine in terms of handling both video/audio
via the AVR's remote. i decided to use my TV
(a very recent Vizio 32") to do my video switching,
and my Denon AVR to do my audio switching.
fwiw, i currently have 4 multichannel audio inputs
into the AVR: 3 non-decoded optical (TV and 2 Panasonic
DVD recorders) and the decoded ext-in via the 6 RCA jacks

i can add that when i got my Denon i spent 5 hours (!)
trying to get it to work and struck out! i've done
computer s/w all my professional life so i have good
understanding of complexity. after sleeping on it
i turned to the troubleshooting at the back of the
manual and finally found page 49 where the digital
audio input options is shown

you might consider posting your own experience.
i for one would find it useful/interesting

It's DCDi circuitry's supposed to upres 480i to 480p.

i'm not sure what DCDi means, but given that you appear to
have a recent 46" Aquos, upres of 480i to 480p by the AVR
isn't much. what caught my eye is that your new AVR specs
mentioned "Faroudja" which suggested to me that your new
AVR may do upresing to 720p or 1080i (or 1080p), whichever
is the native res of your 46" Aquos flatscreen

The OPPO 981 would still be beneficial to me since it does (a very
good job of) upscaling to 1080p. The Onkyo I got has the Faroudja
chip but only uses it to convert 480i to 480p. There's a "trick" you
can do to get the receiver to convert 480i to 720p but I hear it
doesn't do a great job of doing that. For 1080p, if my Onkyo sees a
1080p signal, it won't try to do any conversions on it but will simply
pass it through to the monitor.

DCDi is a deinterlacing algorthm. The Faroudja chip does it but just
because something contains the Faroudja chip it doesn't automatically
mean that you'll get 1080p from it. It all depends on how the
hardware uses the chip/circuitry. More info on DCDi if you're
interested:

http://www.av-outlet.com/en-us/dept_335.html



if that's true, then the OPPO 981 may not have much
to offer you. i bought it coz of it's ability to
handle all disks that i've recorded on my PC (with
the exception of DVD-RAM), as well as it's player
ability to upres to 720p (my Vizio 32's native),
and especially it's SACD/DVD-A capabilities

I still think the OPPO will be beneficial to me with it's 1080p
upconversion and it's other features.



I'll
hook up my very old (not even progressive) DVD player to it just to
see how it looks. BUt first I think I need to order an HDMI cable. I
don't think the receiver comes with one.

the OPPO 981 comes with an excellent 6' HDMI cable. given the
size of your 46" Aquos, you may need a 10' HDMI (or longer)

i got mine atwww.monoprice.comand plan to buy from them again

I happened to order cables from monoprice as well. Good stuff.
ehdmi.com has similar pricing. In fact, it has the exact same pricing
and even the same catalog layout and part numbers. It's probably just
another front end to the same store. Anyway... thanks for all the
info.


bill

Kevin

On Jul 14, 8:37 pm, "Matthew L. Martin" wrote:
k-man wrote:
Hi Phil:

I still don't understand. I don't know anything about a cable being
fixed.

HDMI 1.3 is an update to the HDMI specification. AIUI, it mandates
higher bandwidth to enable 1080p and deep color (deeper than HDTV
specs). It also specifies changes in the protocol so that processing
delay times can be communicated between the source and the display. This
allows the two devices to attempt to counter the processing time to
avoidlip syncissues.

On Jul 13, 8:19 am, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 04:38:06 -0000 k-man wrote:

| Phil:
|
| Who said anything about the cable putting things out of sync? From
| WGD's info, it talks about processing time. At least, that's how I
| interpreted it in this particular message.

So you are saying the cable is not the source of theproblem? Yet why
is the cable being fixed to correct theproblem?

If something is doing some processing in the wrong way, then fix that
processing.

It's all about the communications. HDMI is a communications standard
that specifies the electrical characteristics of the cable *AND* the
protocol use to communicate over the cable. The cable is the medium for
the communications. Changing the protocol used over the cable requires a
change to the cable system specification. If there were no electrical
changes to the cable specifications, I would have called it HDMI 1.2.1,
but they changed both at the same time, hence HDMI 1.3.

Matthew

--
I'm a consultant. If you want an opinion I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?

I just want to reinforce what Matthew said about HDMI 1.3's lip sync
feature since so many people think that it really is "automatic lip-
sync correction" and it isn't. That's definitely a misnomer since
automatic lip-sync icorrection is actually impossible due to the fact
that there is nothing in the signals to define when they are or were
ever in sync.

As Matthew said the HDMI 1.3 feature is just a protocol (within the
EDID handshaking) allowing the dispaly to tell its source the fixed
delay it will add so the source (a/v receiver) can delay the audio
that same fixed amount but that won't solve about half of the lip-sync
problem because it varies from program to program and DVD to DVD. In
fact, most av receivers already have a delay feature you can set to
offset a fixed screen delay in a minute or two one time and all the
new HDMI feature does is set it for you saving you those few minutes
once since it's not going to change as long as you have the same
display. What's really needed is a way to adjust the delay in small
increments while watching without upsetting your program or movie and
so far I haven't seen any av receivers -HDMI 1.3 or otherwise that do
that which has created the market for the dedicated audio delays
reviewed he

http://www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=3011

On Jul 12, 1:19 am, Jan B wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:23:32 GMT, "WGD"
wrote:

Found this at an HDMI link:

Lip Sync: Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly
complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the
content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a
greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user
adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates an automatic audio/video synching
capability that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically
with accuracy.

Yes, it would be interesting to know How.

As I understand, the display passes information back to the source on
how many milliseconds it delays the video. The source then sets the
audio delay automatically.
So it's the same kind of function we use in Surround amplifiers today
but it can be set more accurately (easier) and it would also change if
the amount of delay varies with different processing.
(It still requires that the material is correct and that the
broadcaster or user equipment doesn't ruin the syncronisation).
/Jan

I just want to underscore one comment Jan made about HDMI 1.3 helping
with lip-sync:

(It still requires that the material is correct and that the
broadcaster or user equipment doesn't ruin the syncronisation).

Only about half the total lip-sync error comes from the display's
video delay and that's all HDMI 1.3 will help correct. In fact that's
the same half you can already correct with a non-HDMI av receiver that
offers an audio delay. HDMI 1.3 could "potentially" rebroadcast the
required delay if the display's internal processing delay changed but
that difference is insignifiucant (perhaps 5 or 10 ms for a native
versus non-native resolution format conversion) compared to the 50 to
80 ms swings in "variable delay" already present in the signal when it
arrives. That variable delay comes from the digital image processing
starting with image capture and continuing through editing and post
production and broadcasting or DVD encoding. I have watched these
swings of 40 to 60 ms in incoming lip-sync error from program to
program on the same network and I've seen almost that much variation
from one DVD to another. As an example I watched Inside Man with
Denzel Washington the other night and it only required 19 ms of delay
(with my Felston Dd340) whereas most of the DVD's I watch require 60
to 80 ms on my plasma. That's a 40 to 60 ms difference between DVD's!
What's needed is an easily changed delay that doesn't disrupt what you
are watching so you can handle this changing lip-sync problem. Then
again, what's REALLY needed is a chnage to the broadcast standards
that would require a watermark or time stamp by the content producer
that true automatic lip-sync correction could use to restore lip-sync
no matter what happened to sync between production and viewing but I
don't expect to see that in my lifetime.