Signal quality

On 2 Jul, 15:09, Madden wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jul 2007 19:27:21 +0100, "Bill Wright"

wrote:

"Madden" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 15:54:33 +0100, Madden wrote:
Sorry, I know it's bad form to reply to ones own post but I got the
figures of the signal strengths completely wrong.

We'll forgive you. Tree screening will typically affect one channel more
than another. The effect will often vary by channel and time in a seemingly
random manner.

There's a thing on my website somewhere about trees.

Just a quick update....
I went into the loft to check the aerial connections for corrosion and
there was, indeed, some rust on the terminal screws.
Got the Missus to stand downstairs and watch the Thomson signal
quality whilst I did the business in the loft.
I unscrewed the cable terminals and removed the coax, expecting to
hear a call about lack of signal.
Nothing.
According to my wife, the signal was still strength 5 and quality in
the yellow and fluctuating between 5 and 7.
I shorted the cable and still the same.
I remade the connections and went down to the TV.
Whilst messing with the TV socket I found that wiggling the short
cable between the socket and the receiver, signal quality lept to 8
and steady whilst signal strength stayed at 5.
I replace this short cable and all is now well.
Except.
I come to the conclusion that I have been running all this time on the
signal picked up by a 20 foot length of 30 year old coax running up
the cavity wall!!

Can't see how you come to that conclusion.

From what you have said here, there was an aerial in the loft
connected to a piece of coax running down the cavity wall. If the
lead downstairs was a good un (and presumably it was for most of the
30 years), then you (or at least the TV) were connected to the
aerial. When the lead went dud (last week??), then the TV was just
connected to that lead and not to the aerial or 20 foot of coax. I
can't see from you r post, that the TV was connected to just the lead
without the aerial at any time.

Have you tried disconnecting the aerial from the lead now that you
have the connection made correctly downstairs? That would give a
better indication of how it would work without an aerial (though
perhaps you'd need to take the aerial out of the loft as well??

Have I misunderstood something?

On 3 Jul, 01:04, "kim" wrote:
"Madden" wrote in message

news




On Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:26:21 +0100, "kim" wrote:

"Madden" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 1 Jul 2007 19:27:21 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:

"Madden" wrote in message
m...
On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 15:54:33 +0100, Madden wrote:
Sorry, I know it's bad form to reply to ones own post but I got the
figures of the signal strengths completely wrong.

We'll forgive you. Tree screening will typically affect one channel more
than another. The effect will often vary by channel and time in a
seemingly
random manner.

There's a thing on my website somewhere about trees.

Just a quick update....
I went into the loft to check the aerial connections for corrosion and
there was, indeed, some rust on the terminal screws.
Got the Missus to stand downstairs and watch the Thomson signal
quality whilst I did the business in the loft.
I unscrewed the cable terminals and removed the coax, expecting to
hear a call about lack of signal.
Nothing.
According to my wife, the signal was still strength 5 and quality in
the yellow and fluctuating between 5 and 7.
I shorted the cable and still the same.
I remade the connections and went down to the TV.
Whilst messing with the TV socket I found that wiggling the short
cable between the socket and the receiver, signal quality lept to 8
and steady whilst signal strength stayed at 5.
I replace this short cable and all is now well.
Except.
I come to the conclusion that I have been running all this time on the
signal picked up by a 20 foot length of 30 year old coax running up
the cavity wall!!
The aerial is about the same age and consists of a central pole with
about 5 cross pieces, sort of

|__|__|__|__|
| | | | |

without the misaligment.

Are you sure it's UHF? It looks like a Band 3 VHF aerial to me.

I'm not sure of anything about it now.
All I know was I bought it in 1980 from the local TV specialist who
also ran an aerial fitting service, (quite well respected and still in
business today), who told me it was the correct one at the time for
this area, mid Norfolk.

In your situation I'd use a 10-element log-periodic. Low gain but very good
directivity.

(kim)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You seem very knowledgeable Kim. I on the other had have just
realised it was you rather than the OP who had decided she (You are a
she aren't you??) couldn't solve her aerial issues by rigging her own
aerial rather than using the communal one. Did you see my comment
addressed to the OP regarding Freesat From Sky as a possible
alternative?

Cheers

Zikki (Mr)

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 03:14:55 -0700,
wrote:

On 2 Jul, 15:09, Madden wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jul 2007 19:27:21 +0100, "Bill Wright"

wrote:

"Madden" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 15:54:33 +0100, Madden wrote:
Sorry, I know it's bad form to reply to ones own post but I got the
figures of the signal strengths completely wrong.

We'll forgive you. Tree screening will typically affect one channel more
than another. The effect will often vary by channel and time in a seemingly
random manner.

There's a thing on my website somewhere about trees.

Just a quick update....
I went into the loft to check the aerial connections for corrosion and
there was, indeed, some rust on the terminal screws.
Got the Missus to stand downstairs and watch the Thomson signal
quality whilst I did the business in the loft.
I unscrewed the cable terminals and removed the coax, expecting to
hear a call about lack of signal.
Nothing.
According to my wife, the signal was still strength 5 and quality in
the yellow and fluctuating between 5 and 7.
I shorted the cable and still the same.
I remade the connections and went down to the TV.
Whilst messing with the TV socket I found that wiggling the short
cable between the socket and the receiver, signal quality lept to 8
and steady whilst signal strength stayed at 5.
I replace this short cable and all is now well.
Except.
I come to the conclusion that I have been running all this time on the
signal picked up by a 20 foot length of 30 year old coax running up
the cavity wall!!

Can't see how you come to that conclusion.

From what you have said here, there was an aerial in the loft
connected to a piece of coax running down the cavity wall. If the
lead downstairs was a good un (and presumably it was for most of the
30 years), then you (or at least the TV) were connected to the
aerial. When the lead went dud (last week??), then the TV was just
connected to that lead and not to the aerial or 20 foot of coax. I
can't see from you r post, that the TV was connected to just the lead
without the aerial at any time.

Have you tried disconnecting the aerial from the lead now that you
have the connection made correctly downstairs? That would give a
better indication of how it would work without an aerial (though
perhaps you'd need to take the aerial out of the loft as well??

Have I misunderstood something?

Maybe.
I suspect the fault with the short lead was perhaps a dry joint as the
signal strength was OK, (normal for my setup), and only the BBC was
effected by loss of quality, (Signal to Noise?)
With only the known good short lead connected and not attached to the
wall plate then no signal at all so the coax at least was needed for
some sort of picture..
With the lead attached to the wall plate and thus to the 20 foot of
old coax, signal strength 5 and quality 8-9 over all muxs.
Signal strength has never been more than 5-6 in the two years or so
that I have had the tuner.
I must admit I haven't ventured into the loft again to check whether
the aerial is now actually doing anything, but I suspect that it is
totally the wrong aerial for digital from Tacolnston and so is
probably as useful as a wire coathanger.
On the theory well proven by experience that if it ain't broke, don't
fix it, unless I have further problems I'll just leave it alone.
If it goes pear shaped again, I'll get a proper aerial recommended for
digital reception in mid Norfolk, some good quality coax and re-rig
the lot.

--
Madden

On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 01:04:13 +0100, "kim" wrote:

"Madden" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:26:21 +0100, "kim" wrote:

"Madden" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 1 Jul 2007 19:27:21 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:


"Madden" wrote in message
om...
On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 15:54:33 +0100, Madden wrote:
Sorry, I know it's bad form to reply to ones own post but I got the
figures of the signal strengths completely wrong.

We'll forgive you. Tree screening will typically affect one channel more
than another. The effect will often vary by channel and time in a
seemingly
random manner.

There's a thing on my website somewhere about trees.


Just a quick update....
I went into the loft to check the aerial connections for corrosion and
there was, indeed, some rust on the terminal screws.
Got the Missus to stand downstairs and watch the Thomson signal
quality whilst I did the business in the loft.
I unscrewed the cable terminals and removed the coax, expecting to
hear a call about lack of signal.
Nothing.
According to my wife, the signal was still strength 5 and quality in
the yellow and fluctuating between 5 and 7.
I shorted the cable and still the same.
I remade the connections and went down to the TV.
Whilst messing with the TV socket I found that wiggling the short
cable between the socket and the receiver, signal quality lept to 8
and steady whilst signal strength stayed at 5.
I replace this short cable and all is now well.
Except.
I come to the conclusion that I have been running all this time on the
signal picked up by a 20 foot length of 30 year old coax running up
the cavity wall!!
The aerial is about the same age and consists of a central pole with
about 5 cross pieces, sort of

|__|__|__|__|
| | | | |

without the misaligment.

Are you sure it's UHF? It looks like a Band 3 VHF aerial to me.


I'm not sure of anything about it now.
All I know was I bought it in 1980 from the local TV specialist who
also ran an aerial fitting service, (quite well respected and still in
business today), who told me it was the correct one at the time for
this area, mid Norfolk.

In your situation I'd use a 10-element log-periodic. Low gain but very good
directivity.



Thanks, I am tending to the 'Let sleeping dogs lay' decision at the
moment, but I'll certainly bear it in mind should I decide to tinker
again.

--
Madden

wrote in message
oups.com...
On 3 Jul, 01:04, "kim" wrote:
"Madden" wrote in message

news




On Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:26:21 +0100, "kim" wrote:

"Madden" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 1 Jul 2007 19:27:21 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:

"Madden" wrote in message
m...
On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 15:54:33 +0100, Madden
wrote:
Sorry, I know it's bad form to reply to ones own post but I got the
figures of the signal strengths completely wrong.

We'll forgive you. Tree screening will typically affect one channel
more
than another. The effect will often vary by channel and time in a
seemingly
random manner.

There's a thing on my website somewhere about trees.

Just a quick update....
I went into the loft to check the aerial connections for corrosion
and
there was, indeed, some rust on the terminal screws.
Got the Missus to stand downstairs and watch the Thomson signal
quality whilst I did the business in the loft.
I unscrewed the cable terminals and removed the coax, expecting to
hear a call about lack of signal.
Nothing.
According to my wife, the signal was still strength 5 and quality in
the yellow and fluctuating between 5 and 7.
I shorted the cable and still the same.
I remade the connections and went down to the TV.
Whilst messing with the TV socket I found that wiggling the short
cable between the socket and the receiver, signal quality lept to 8
and steady whilst signal strength stayed at 5.
I replace this short cable and all is now well.
Except.
I come to the conclusion that I have been running all this time on
the
signal picked up by a 20 foot length of 30 year old coax running up
the cavity wall!!
The aerial is about the same age and consists of a central pole with
about 5 cross pieces, sort of

|__|__|__|__|
| | | | |

without the misaligment.

Are you sure it's UHF? It looks like a Band 3 VHF aerial to me.

I'm not sure of anything about it now.
All I know was I bought it in 1980 from the local TV specialist who
also ran an aerial fitting service, (quite well respected and still in
business today), who told me it was the correct one at the time for
this area, mid Norfolk.

In your situation I'd use a 10-element log-periodic. Low gain but very
good
directivity.

(kim)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You seem very knowledgeable Kim. I on the other had have just
realised it was you rather than the OP who had decided she (You are a
she aren't you??) couldn't solve her aerial issues by rigging her own
aerial rather than using the communal one.

I was named after a housekeeper's son in Malaya where Kim is a man's name
but i'm not sensitive about it.

Did you see my comment
addressed to the OP regarding Freesat From Sky as a possible
alternative?

Yes thanks. My browser was unable to quote your message for some reason? I
prefer to have as little to do with Sky as possible for reasons explained by
other posters. I can still get the five main BBC channels 99% of the time
which is all I need really. I might get ""Freesat from BBC" if it ever
materialises.

(kim)

"Madden" wrote in message
...
I have a Thomson twin receiver that has for a couple of years been
receiving a perfectly fine digital signal from an old analogue aerial
in my loft.
For the last week or so, the BBC1 and News 24 stations have been
subject to a lot of dropouts in audio and pauses in video - perhaps
every couple of seconds at its worst.
Most of the other stations seem OK.
I am near Norwich and my transmitter is Tacolnston.
I checked the signal quality shown in the Tech section of the Thomson
Menu and with one receiver tuned to BBC News 24 and the other to Sky
News, the BBC one showed a varying signal strength of 5-7 out of 10
and quality shifting from 5-7 also.
The other tuner on Sky News showed a steady strength of 9 and quality
8.
The only other variable is a neighbours cherry tree that has reached
roof height and is in line with the aerial direction and about 15 feet
from my house.
My questions are, can the BBC signal be effected by something like a
tree more so than other stations?
Perhaps the BBC has turned down its transmission strength recently?
Are the atmospheric conditions particularily bad for reception at the
moment?

--
Madden

I'm getting exactly the same problem from Tacolnsten with my Thomson PVR.
Signal strength is about the same as yours and the sticking etc only seems
to affect BBC channels. The only difference is that it used to be
intermittent until a couple of weeks ago and now seems to happen all of the
time. I have a pretty old aerial though and the analogue picture isn't much
to write home about anyway. What I find interesting is that only BBC is
affected, why cant it be QVC or the HITS?

Rob.

On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:30:13 +0100, "Gray Robert Mr \(HUM\) j055"
wrote:


"Madden" wrote in message
.. .
I have a Thomson twin receiver that has for a couple of years been
receiving a perfectly fine digital signal from an old analogue aerial
in my loft.
For the last week or so, the BBC1 and News 24 stations have been
subject to a lot of dropouts in audio and pauses in video - perhaps
every couple of seconds at its worst.
Most of the other stations seem OK.
I am near Norwich and my transmitter is Tacolnston.
I checked the signal quality shown in the Tech section of the Thomson
Menu and with one receiver tuned to BBC News 24 and the other to Sky
News, the BBC one showed a varying signal strength of 5-7 out of 10
and quality shifting from 5-7 also.
The other tuner on Sky News showed a steady strength of 9 and quality
8.
The only other variable is a neighbours cherry tree that has reached
roof height and is in line with the aerial direction and about 15 feet
from my house.
My questions are, can the BBC signal be effected by something like a
tree more so than other stations?
Perhaps the BBC has turned down its transmission strength recently?
Are the atmospheric conditions particularily bad for reception at the
moment?

--
Madden

I'm getting exactly the same problem from Tacolnsten with my Thomson PVR.
Signal strength is about the same as yours and the sticking etc only seems
to affect BBC channels. The only difference is that it used to be
intermittent until a couple of weeks ago and now seems to happen all of the
time. I have a pretty old aerial though and the analogue picture isn't much
to write home about anyway. What I find interesting is that only BBC is
affected, why cant it be QVC or the HITS?


Yes, I could do with losing a few shopping channels but not the Beeb.
Did you see my fix?
Strange one.
Who needs an aerial?
Just stick some old coax up the side of the house.......

--
Madden

"Madden" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:30:13 +0100, "Gray Robert Mr \(HUM\) j055"
wrote:


"Madden" wrote in message
. ..
I have a Thomson twin receiver that has for a couple of years been
receiving a perfectly fine digital signal from an old analogue aerial
in my loft.
For the last week or so, the BBC1 and News 24 stations have been
subject to a lot of dropouts in audio and pauses in video - perhaps
every couple of seconds at its worst.
Most of the other stations seem OK.
I am near Norwich and my transmitter is Tacolnston.
I checked the signal quality shown in the Tech section of the Thomson
Menu and with one receiver tuned to BBC News 24 and the other to Sky
News, the BBC one showed a varying signal strength of 5-7 out of 10
and quality shifting from 5-7 also.
The other tuner on Sky News showed a steady strength of 9 and quality
8.
The only other variable is a neighbours cherry tree that has reached
roof height and is in line with the aerial direction and about 15 feet
from my house.
My questions are, can the BBC signal be effected by something like a
tree more so than other stations?
Perhaps the BBC has turned down its transmission strength recently?
Are the atmospheric conditions particularily bad for reception at the
moment?

--
Madden

I'm getting exactly the same problem from Tacolnsten with my Thomson PVR.
Signal strength is about the same as yours and the sticking etc only seems
to affect BBC channels. The only difference is that it used to be
intermittent until a couple of weeks ago and now seems to happen all of
the
time. I have a pretty old aerial though and the analogue picture isn't
much
to write home about anyway. What I find interesting is that only BBC is
affected, why cant it be QVC or the HITS?


Yes, I could do with losing a few shopping channels but not the Beeb.
Did you see my fix?
Strange one.
Who needs an aerial?
Just stick some old coax up the side of the house.......

Yes, it will work if you live in a strong enough signal area but it will
also pick up a lot of interference. Hence my suggestion of a log-periodic
aerial.

(kim)