Question about upscaling

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 05:18:09 GMT Historian wrote:

| It's the Insignia NS-1UCDVD player. On page 7 of the manual it has a chart
| that states via Component Video Out it will do 1920 x 1080i, 1280 x 720p,
| 720 x 480p and 720 x 480i. Then on Page 8 it does state "For 720p and 1080i
| resolution on the component video out, only non-copy protected discs can be
| played back. If the disc is copy protected, it will be displayed at the 480p
| resolution without HDMI cable connection." To make matters seemingly worse,
| the next sentence gets even more confusing, "With HDMI cable connection the
| picture may not display properly."
|
| So you and the previous poster are of course correct that it won't upscale
| without HDMI. Unfortunately the manual (and the box) are rather deceptive
| IMO. Technically, it will do 1080i via component, you just have to find a
| non-copy protected disk to use the feature and nothing produced by Hollywood
| is non-copy protected.
|
| http://www.insignia-products.com/ski...1UCDVD_WEB.pdf
|
| Definitely the last time I buy an Insignia product. I screwed up by not
| knowing only HDMI will upscale, but they're not exactly being totally up
| front about their product.

You are confusing upscaling with HD content. Hollywood's concern is with
the HD content coming out in full glory on analog outputs. SD content is
just SD even if you upconvert. The TV upconverts anyway if its native
resolution is higher than the SD.

If the licensing for the DRM even restricted upconversion of SD content,
then that clearly shows just how absurd the whole content industry has
become. These are the guys that time after time keep building crackable
systems. It's probably intentionally crackable so they can repeat whines
to government every few years and get more oppressive laws and free law
enforcement activities to help boost their profits. Hollywood may simply
be trying to destroy analog as much as they can, even though that is not
going to stop the "it only takes one leak and BAM! it's all over the net".

Upconverters do exist for analog to analog. So you could upconvert that
way. They are expensive because there is not much of a market for them.
As everything moves to digital, they will eventually vanish.

Let me know how your player does with THIS DVD: http://animusic.com/

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|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 09:29:27 GMT Michael Walraven wrote:

| Relevant note on my LG up converter (I have checked my typing carefully -
| this really is the wording).
| Note for 1080p resolution
| This unit is able to provide a 1080p full HD image to
| most 1080p-capable TVs in the market today.
| However, there are some 1080p TVs available from
| certain companies that are limited in the types of
| 1080p images that can be accepted. Specifically,
| 1080p-capable TVs that don't accept images in 60HZ
| can display an image from this unit.

All it does is upconvert? What advantage do you get out of it that your
display can't do?

--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|

On 30 Jun 2007 14:21:37 GMT Bill McClain wrote:
| On 2007-06-30, Historian wrote:
|
| Definitely the last time I buy an Insignia product. I screwed up by not
| knowing only HDMI will upscale, but they're not exactly being totally up
| front about their product.
|
| This is an industry-wide practice. No current DVD player can upscale SD-DVD
| over component. Not even HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players are allowed to do that for
| SD-DVD discs, even though they do deliver HD over component for their native
| formats (for the time being; this may be disabled in the future).
|
| The reason is not technical, but because of patent licensing. It is a feeble
| attempt at signal copy protection, making no sense at all because SD-DVD disc
| copy protection was cracked years ago.

It can be copied on the analog output in its original format. If one wants
to make a copy for distributing to others, then this is the way to do it,
not from an upscaled signal. Copying from upscaled does not improve the
real resolution at all. Copying from the original SD keeps the compression
most efficient. This is not a means to prevent piracy. Whether or not the
content owners understand this is unknown. Given their wrong way approaches
in so many things, and their attempts at lame encryption, it is no surprise
they chose this restriction because they genuinely believed it would help
stop piracy of HD content.


| There are firmware hacks for some players that get around this. The Oppo 970
| is good quality example.
|
| Note that you don't absolutely "need" upscaling; the display will do it from a
| 480i or 480p signal. But the quality of deinterlacing in the player is often
| better than that of the display.

In theory the player can delay the audio to match the delay introduced in
the video due to upscaling. To get this out of the display doing the
upscaling, you'd have to pass the audio through the display, too.

Although either device could upscale the video equally well, doing so in
the player could be done with less resource since doing so as part of the
decompression (which takes place for the analog output) would be simpler.

--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|