Building antenna

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 20:19:33 GMT, Alan F
wrote:

Do you have a window or view or only a wall or two in the direction
of Mt. Wilson to the north?

I suppose I have a couple of walls at a funny angle, but at least I'm
on the third floor. Problem is I suspect some highrise, World Savings
tower, is in my direct line of sight, and it's tall enough to block.

The antennas on Mt. Wilson are over 6000'
above sea level, so they have direct line of sight for quite a distance.
If you want to experiment, get a Philip Silver Sensor UHF antenna
(PHDTV1) at Circuit City for $25. If you buy locally, you can return it
if you get no results. You will need to add a upper VHF antenna or a UHF
antenna that can receive upper VHF in 2009. But the Silver Sensor is a
good compact indoor UHF antenna. See
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/silver.html for a photo & charts for
the design. If you have a HD TV with a built-in ATSC receiver, I would
give it a shot.

For the price, I'll try it, except they were all out. Cute idea bout
using two.

If you need more gain for a UHF antenna that can fit indoors or go on
a balcony, the 2 bay bowtie antenna is a good choice. Channel Master
recently introduced the Cm 4220 2 Bay
(http://www.pctinternational.com/channelmaster/0612/) It goes for around
$20 plus shipping on-line. Frys reportedly stocks some Channel Master
antennas.

Well gee, I have one now that looks kinda like this, is it supposed to
be better than the silver surfer, er, sensor? It picks up a LOT of
ghosts for analog.

Well, I may have to join the teaming masses and go cable/dish, finally
get some Laker/Dodger home games anyway.

(I also see your message that in 2009 a lot of the major digital
channels will come back down to VHF! Just my luck.)

Thanks for all the help.

J.

JXStern wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 20:19:33 GMT, Alan F
wrote:

Do you have a window or view or only a wall or two in the direction
of Mt. Wilson to the north?

I suppose I have a couple of walls at a funny angle, but at least I'm
on the third floor. Problem is I suspect some highrise, World Savings
tower, is in my direct line of sight, and it's tall enough to block.

That can be a problem. However if you get an antenna, try an
experiment of aiming it at either edge of the building. You may be able
to pick up the signals refracted on the edge. Or aim at a tall building
behind you to pick up the reflected signals.

The antennas on Mt. Wilson are over 6000'
above sea level, so they have direct line of sight for quite a distance.
If you want to experiment, get a Philip Silver Sensor UHF antenna
(PHDTV1) at Circuit City for $25. If you buy locally, you can return it
if you get no results. You will need to add a upper VHF antenna or a UHF
antenna that can receive upper VHF in 2009. But the Silver Sensor is a
good compact indoor UHF antenna. See
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/silver.html for a photo & charts for
the design. If you have a HD TV with a built-in ATSC receiver, I would
give it a shot.

For the price, I'll try it, except they were all out. Cute idea bout
using two.

The two Silver Sensors are for bad multipath situations, but it is
rather tricky to combine them correctly.

If you need more gain for a UHF antenna that can fit indoors or go on
a balcony, the 2 bay bowtie antenna is a good choice. Channel Master
recently introduced the Cm 4220 2 Bay
(http://www.pctinternational.com/channelmaster/0612/) It goes for around
$20 plus shipping on-line. Frys reportedly stocks some Channel Master
antennas.

Well gee, I have one now that looks kinda like this, is it supposed to
be better than the silver surfer, er, sensor? It picks up a LOT of
ghosts for analog.

The Channel Master 4220 and the AntennasDirect DB-2 have more gain
than the Silver Sensor. But the bowtie design is less directional and is
not as suitable for multipath situation which shows up as ghosting in
the analog environment. If you happen to have the small Radio Shack
double bowtie, it is not as good as performance as it is only 12.5" wide
which is short for the lower UHF channels.

Useful website for antenna basics and comparisons:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html.

Good luck!

Alan F

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 16:52:13 GMT, JXStern
wrote:

I live in a 20-unit apartment building. Not sure if anyone is using
the house antenna but me! Works fine for NTSC VHF, does NOT carry
UHF. So, will this include the new broadcast digital/HD channels?

Some notes now, after suggestions and some experiments and
observations.

There is just one coax that comes off the physical antenna (too
corroded to see any manufacturer or model number), must be combined
VHF and UHF, I see no place to attach anything else, nothing hanging.

Splitting the signal before the amp and putting inputs to both VHF and
UHF helps the UHF some, so it looks like it does NOT feed through the
VHF input on the amp even if present. But, it cost in VHF signal
strength. I'm not sure I got the antenna feed all the way seated in
the splitter, actually, but it was a bitch getting it back where it
started on the VHF input, so I hesitate to try it again.

Standing on the roof, I also noted the new condo buildings completed
in the last five years or so, do not HAVE OTA antennas, just a
spattering of dishes.

And I can't seem to find anyplace local selling fifty feet of twinlead
.... I think I'll go root around in my closet, I may have some more
somewhere.

All very educational, if retro and pointless. I suppose I can either
go all cable/dish, or try hanging my own antenna. I could buy the
landlord a new amp on my dollar, but then he'd raise my rent for the
improvement!

I can't seem to find a place selling the Silver Sensor antenna
locally, I did see one amped (Silver Sensor is unamped, right?), but I
don't see it listed anywhere. Circuit City lists SS but out of stock
online and locally. Amped (I think) version at CC was about $50.

How about these other little indoor amp'd UHF antennas - CAN they work
with such small collection areas? Do they use some more modern phased
array microwave filtered synthetic aperture deconvolved dilithium
pickups or something?

oooh, look at this:
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/squareshot.htm
suggests the little indoor antennas do work.
I love it when a plan comes together!

J.

On Jun 28, 6:49 pm, JXStern wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 16:52:13 GMT, JXStern
wrote:

I live in a 20-unit apartment building. Not sure if anyone is using
the house antenna but me! Works fine for NTSC VHF, does NOT carry
UHF. So, will this include the new broadcast digital/HD channels?

Some notes now, after suggestions and some experiments and
observations.

There is just one coax that comes off the physical antenna (too
corroded to see any manufacturer or model number), must be combined
VHF and UHF, I see no place to attach anything else, nothing hanging.

Splitting the signal before the amp and putting inputs to both VHF and
UHF helps the UHF some, so it looks like it does NOT feed through the
VHF input on the amp even if present. But, it cost in VHF signal
strength. I'm not sure I got the antenna feed all the way seated in
the splitter, actually, but it was a bitch getting it back where it
started on the VHF input, so I hesitate to try it again.

Standing on the roof, I also noted the new condo buildings completed
in the last five years or so, do not HAVE OTA antennas, just a
spattering of dishes.

And I can't seem to find anyplace local selling fifty feet of twinlead
... I think I'll go root around in my closet, I may have some more
somewhere.

All very educational, if retro and pointless. I suppose I can either
go all cable/dish, or try hanging my own antenna. I could buy the
landlord a new amp on my dollar, but then he'd raise my rent for the
improvement!

I can't seem to find a place selling the Silver Sensor antenna
locally, I did see one amped (Silver Sensor is unamped, right?), but I
don't see it listed anywhere. Circuit City lists SS but out of stock
online and locally. Amped (I think) version at CC was about $50.

How about these other little indoor amp'd UHF antennas - CAN they work
with such small collection areas? Do they use some more modern phased
array microwave filtered synthetic aperture deconvolved dilithium
pickups or something?

oooh, look at this:http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/squareshot.htm
suggests the little indoor antennas do work.
I love it when a plan comes together!

J.

We live in 90274, 35 miles from Mt. Wilson and that little antenna is
being split 4 ways with no amplifiers. Except for Oxnard (KBEH-DT) and
San Bernardino (KVCR-DT) we get all the stations in the NAB list here.

http://www.nab.org/AM/ASPCode/DTVSta...TVStations.asp

In fairness, we do have (barely) line of sight to Mt. Wilson but it
works very well.

GG

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 01:49:23 +0000, JXStern wrote:

And I can't seem to find anyplace local selling fifty feet of twinlead
... I think I'll go root around in my closet, I may have some more
somewhere.

Don't use twinlead, it sucks. The antennas age shouldn't make a difference
as long as it's in good shape. One thing you should check is the points on
the antennas where the individual rods connect to the main body for
corrosion. Some WD40 might help for a while, but if corrosion is bad
enough the anntenna should be replaced. You should check the whole antenna
for corrosion. For a down lead, get a balun and run coax from the antenna
to the amp. Make sure you use a waterproof balun.

All very educational, if retro and pointless. I suppose I can either
go all cable/dish, or try hanging my own antenna. I could buy the
landlord a new amp on my dollar, but then he'd raise my rent for the
improvement!

You really shouldn't be doing anything to the antenna without the
landlords approval if it's his antenna system. he may even fix it or pay
for the parts to fix it if you talk with him/her. Not to mention that it's
illegal.:-)

I can't seem to find a place selling the Silver Sensor antenna locally,
I did see one amped (Silver Sensor is unamped, right?), but I don't see
it listed anywhere. Circuit City lists SS but out of stock online and
locally. Amped (I think) version at CC was about $50.

You'll get much better reception from regular antenna than from any rabbit
ear type antenna. Wouldn't even screw with this option when you already
all you need on the roof.

How about these other little indoor amp'd UHF antennas- CAN they work
with such small collection areas? Do they use some more modern phased
array microwave filtered synthetic aperture deconvolved dilithium
pickups or something?

Personally, I wouldn't give you a dime for all of them in the world, but
if you are close to the tranmission towers you might find them suitable.

oooh, look at this:
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/squareshot.htm suggests the little
indoor antennas do work. I love it when a plan comes together!

I don't recall your location, but I wouldn't count on many vhf stations
with any of those. Your best bet is to contact your landlord and see what
can be done with your current setup. You may also want to run this by
others tenants in the building. Maybe get a pool for a pro to come fix
everything. Or there may be a tenant that can help.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 05:20:21 GMT, Wes Newell
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 01:49:23 +0000, JXStern wrote:

And I can't seem to find anyplace local selling fifty feet of twinlead
... I think I'll go root around in my closet, I may have some more
somewhere.

Don't use twinlead, it sucks.

Just griping, I want to put a ten foot lead on this ancient UHF
double-bowtie, that has to connect via twinlead inputs on the old
(about to be junked) TV.

Hey, I found 100 feet of exterior twinlead, tied up at the back of my
closet! Next to a dial phone, a buggy whip, and the holy grail. I've
got to clean out some of this stuff.

The antennas age shouldn't make a difference
as long as it's in good shape. One thing you should check is the points on
the antennas where the individual rods connect to the main body for
corrosion. Some WD40 might help for a while, but if corrosion is bad
enough the anntenna should be replaced. You should check the whole antenna
for corrosion. For a down lead, get a balun and run coax from the antenna
to the amp. Make sure you use a waterproof balun.

All there and working.


All very educational, if retro and pointless. I suppose I can either
go all cable/dish, or try hanging my own antenna. I could buy the
landlord a new amp on my dollar, but then he'd raise my rent for the
improvement!

You really shouldn't be doing anything to the antenna without the
landlords approval if it's his antenna system. he may even fix it or pay
for the parts to fix it if you talk with him/her. Not to mention that it's
illegal.:-)

He might, he's not totally unreasonable. I'm not proposing to hang an
antenna for him, just a separate one for me, if he's not interested.

I can't seem to find a place selling the Silver Sensor antenna locally,
I did see one amped (Silver Sensor is unamped, right?), but I don't see
it listed anywhere. Circuit City lists SS but out of stock online and
locally. Amped (I think) version at CC was about $50.

You'll get much better reception from regular antenna than from any rabbit
ear type antenna. Wouldn't even screw with this option when you already
all you need on the roof.

It's a little yagi. Should be roughly as good as the exterior one.

How about these other little indoor amp'd UHF antennas- CAN they work
with such small collection areas? Do they use some more modern phased
array microwave filtered synthetic aperture deconvolved dilithium
pickups or something?

Personally, I wouldn't give you a dime for all of them in the world, but
if you are close to the tranmission towers you might find them suitable.

The link below suggests they are better than that, and I'm 26 miles
from the transmitters.

oooh, look at this:
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/squareshot.htm suggests the little
indoor antennas do work. I love it when a plan comes together!

I don't recall your location, but I wouldn't count on many vhf stations
with any of those. Your best bet is to contact your landlord and see what
can be done with your current setup. You may also want to run this by
others tenants in the building. Maybe get a pool for a pro to come fix
everything. Or there may be a tenant that can help.

This is pretty much all about UHF.

And I'm just enjoying the fiddling, somewhat.

J.

On Jun 29, 8:50 am, JXStern wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 05:20:21 GMT, Wes Newell

wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 01:49:23 +0000, JXStern wrote:

And I can't seem to find anyplace local selling fifty feet of twinlead
... I think I'll go root around in my closet, I may have some more
somewhere.

Don't use twinlead, it sucks.

Just griping, I want to put a ten foot lead on this ancient UHF
double-bowtie, that has to connect via twinlead inputs on the old
(about to be junked) TV.

Hey, I found 100 feet of exterior twinlead, tied up at the back of my
closet! Next to a dial phone, a buggy whip, and the holy grail. I've
got to clean out some of this stuff.

The antennas age shouldn't make a difference
as long as it's in good shape. One thing you should check is the points on
the antennas where the individual rods connect to the main body for
corrosion. Some WD40 might help for a while, but if corrosion is bad
enough the anntenna should be replaced. You should check the whole antenna
for corrosion. For a down lead, get a balun and run coax from the antenna
to the amp. Make sure you use a waterproof balun.

All there and working.



All very educational, if retro and pointless. I suppose I can either
go all cable/dish, or try hanging my own antenna. I could buy the
landlord a new amp on my dollar, but then he'd raise my rent for the
improvement!

You really shouldn't be doing anything to the antenna without the
landlords approval if it's his antenna system. he may even fix it or pay
for the parts to fix it if you talk with him/her. Not to mention that it's
illegal.:-)

He might, he's not totally unreasonable. I'm not proposing to hang an
antenna for him, just a separate one for me, if he's not interested.

I can't seem to find a place selling the Silver Sensor antenna locally,
I did see one amped (Silver Sensor is unamped, right?), but I don't see
it listed anywhere. Circuit City lists SS but out of stock online and
locally. Amped (I think) version at CC was about $50.

You'll get much better reception from regular antenna than from any rabbit
ear type antenna. Wouldn't even screw with this option when you already
all you need on the roof.

It's a little yagi. Should be roughly as good as the exterior one.

How about these other little indoor amp'd UHF antennas- CAN they work
with such small collection areas? Do they use some more modern phased
array microwave filtered synthetic aperture deconvolved dilithium
pickups or something?

Personally, I wouldn't give you a dime for all of them in the world, but
if you are close to the tranmission towers you might find them suitable.

The link below suggests they are better than that, and I'm 26 miles
from the transmitters.

oooh, look at this:
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/squareshot.htmsuggests the little
indoor antennas do work. I love it when a plan comes together!

I don't recall your location, but I wouldn't count on many vhf stations
with any of those. Your best bet is to contact your landlord and see what
can be done with your current setup. You may also want to run this by
others tenants in the building. Maybe get a pool for a pro to come fix
everything. Or there may be a tenant that can help.

This is pretty much all about UHF.

And I'm just enjoying the fiddling, somewhat.

J.

I don't get your fascination with twinlead. Under ideal conditions it
_can_ outperform coax but that's the exception, not the rule. Wes
Newell told you it sucks because, well, it sucks. Get a modest little
antenna to play with and if you do end up with it outside, use good
coax.

GG

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 05:20:21 GMT, Wes Newell
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 01:49:23 +0000, JXStern wrote:

And I can't seem to find anyplace local selling fifty feet of twinlead
... I think I'll go root around in my closet, I may have some more
somewhere.


Don't use twinlead, it sucks.

Actually, twinlead has significantly less loss per foot than coax.
So if you have a long distance to run a cable, twinlead may be the
better choice.

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 08:06:44 -0500, jiml wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 05:20:21 GMT, Wes Newell
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 01:49:23 +0000, JXStern wrote:

And I can't seem to find anyplace local selling fifty feet of twinlead
... I think I'll go root around in my closet, I may have some more
somewhere.


Don't use twinlead, it sucks.

Actually, twinlead has significantly less loss per foot than coax.
So if you have a long distance to run a cable, twinlead may be the
better choice.

Yeah, it'll work pretty good til it becomes weather worn. Which doesn't
take long.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

In article jiml writes:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 05:20:21 GMT, Wes Newell
Don't use twinlead, it sucks.

Actually, twinlead has significantly less loss per foot than coax.
So if you have a long distance to run a cable, twinlead may be the
better choice.


First, it depends on the coax. However, good twinlead probably beats
average coax.

More importantly, however, twinlead requires proper installation,
standoffs to keep it away from the building and metal, proper twist, and
the like. It also needs to be kept clean and in good condition. In the
real world, dirt will build up on the twinlead, as will moisture in cool
evenings, which will often make it perform quite a bit worse than that
average coax.

By the way, use a good qauality balun when hooking to an antenna -
the cheap ones can be lossy as well.

Alan