OTA demos in stores

Bob Miller wrote:

"We" have all the control over the issue. We live in a democracy. Unless
of course "We" don't think we have any control. In that case we are
f*****!!!

A billion or more people in China lived their lives until recently not
knowing what they were "missing".

If you are easily "annoyed" by those who might be telling you what you
are missing you probably will miss a lot.

Now that the Chinese have some knowledge of what they have missed in the
past they are not settling for garbage like 8-VSB. Their US trained
scientist and engineers are demanding the best and they have it in
DMB-T/H, the Chinese HDTV modulation.

Bob Miller


Go ahead Bob, keep telling us! Just keep on ignoring all the
first-person reports of great HD OTA reception from the United States!
Keep on posting unsubstantiated reports about how much better things are
in the OTA arena in other countries! Never mind that the majority of the
major networks broadcast their prime time programming in high-definition
and lots of people receive it free via OTA. Keep on posting about the
success of OTA in other countries while neglecting to mention that it's
not HD.

You just about have me convinced that, in spite of my own experience in
getting great HD reception via OTA, that the modulation scheme chosen
for the US just doesn't work. I'm almost ready to believe you over my
own eyes!

Thanks you so very much! Now, _PLEASE_ go away.

Bob, you ignorant slut. You failed to address my most important
point: 8-VSB is the law and there is nothing I can do to change it.
Your soap box rhetoric is getting tiring. As I said before, preach to
your Congressman if you want change. The rest of us don't give a
s***.

So I did a bit of reading. There are pros and cons to both. COFDM
won't give me a better picture, so I'm not missing anything.

OK, 8-VSB can not be used in motion, but I don't care. A GPS (knowing
location and velocity) and a microprocessor will make mince-meat of
that restriction within 5 years.

Get a life.

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:38:32 +0000, Bob Miller wrote:

The US has the worst DTV OTA modulation in the world, 8-VSB, and any
retailer here would be crazy to have ANY of his products hooked up to
OTA DTV.

I know you lost a lot when the US chose 8VSb as the broadcast standard
because it was best suited for the US and you lost a lot of money because
of it. You know for a fact that what you wrote is just pure crap. You have
no integrity and anyone doing business with you is a fool.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

Bob Miller wrote:

"We" have all the control over the issue. We live in a democracy. Unless
of course "We" don't think we have any control. In that case we are
f*****!!!

A billion or more people in China lived their lives until recently not
knowing what they were "missing".

If you are easily "annoyed" by those who might be telling you what you
are missing you probably will miss a lot.

Now that the Chinese have some knowledge of what they have missed in the
past they are not settling for garbage like 8-VSB. Their US trained
scientist and engineers are demanding the best and they have it in
DMB-T/H, the Chinese HDTV modulation.

Bob Miller

Dear Bob,

Can I call you that? You probably don't know me but I am a big fan of
you. Put it simply, you are the purpose of my existence. I read all your
posts and enjoy them very much.

I first read your post a couple of years back and never missed any of
them since then. I make it my job to find all your post in the forums as
my life depends on them.

I am not suppose to post this but I finally feel obliged to. So I used
Stephen's account to post this. I hope he doesn't find out since I don't
think he likes you as much. But I don't think he will do any harm to me.
What can he do when he finds out? Kill me? It will only make his life
worse.

So keep up the good work and I will be seeing you.

Sincerely yours,

Stephen Chu's Kill File Rule #182

"Bob Miller" wrote

.... NO business related entity in the world had chosen 8-VSB for anything.
Only governments controlled by special interest have been able to ramrod
8-VSB down the throats of their citizens. Mexico, S. Korea and the US.

Like I told you over a year ago Bob, the Canadian government commissioned a
number a serious studies on this before they decided to go with 8-VSB. These
were published and are available on the Web. They show clearly that the
different schemes all have advantages and disadvantages, but for large
countries like the U.S. and Canada 8-VSB is a very reasonable choice. But
then you avoid all such hard data because it doesn`t support your agenda.

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 14:56:54 +0000, Bob Miller wrote:

8-VSB does not work fine. It is garbage.

It does for millions. Try using an antenna.

OTA in the US is failing. No one supports it.

Except every TV station in the US that broadcast HDTV.

Even LG Industries which owns the IP rights (royalties)
has ceased making receivers here while making COFDM receivers in most
other countries.

LG industries isn't a US co. you fool. And the reason they no longer make
receviers if that's true is because every set now has to have a receiver
built in, not to mention that other companies make a better tuner.

And we DO use COFDM in the US. It is the modulation of Sirius and XM. It
is the modulation of 802.11g/a. It is the modulation of most wireless
systems today.

And why do we that don't use it care?

COFDM is used by ALL those who have bid on and will use the TV channels
that have been auctioned so far, 54, 55 and 59 and will be the
modulation used for all channels to be auctioned, 52, 53, 56, 57 and 58
next January.

And even some could use NTSC, so does that mean NTSC is better than
ATSC.:-)

COFDM will be used by early responders on channels 60 and above. Never
heard of anything that was critical using 8-VSB have you?

The only thing I wish I'd never heard of is you.

COFDM will also be the modulation used on channels below 51 after the
transition is deemed a complete failure in the next few years and
Congress proceeds to reclaim this spectrum for better purposes.

Just stick with that same losing horse Bill, but you'd have a better
chance of winning in a real horse race. All but your horse could stumble.
And that's what it'd take for yours to win.

COFDM is use for transmitting the HDTV signal from those news
helicopters back to the studio and for the wireless studio cameras in
those studios.

Damn, and I just sold my chopper last week.:-)

The only place that COFDM is not used is in the broadcast itself for
channels below 51 at the present. That is also the only place that is in
need of a government mandate to hide its total failure.

Yada yada.

It is simple, 8-VSB is garbage and an utter failure.

I'd say your company was the failure for support codfm when the ATSC was
determining which modulation was best for the US terrain. The transition
from NTSC to ATSC was scheduled for a 10 year event. It hasn't even
completed yet (though almost) and you think it should be changed again and
start all over. Never happen. Live with it.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:18:25 +0000, Bob Miller wrote:

Mexico, S. Korea and the US.

Very poor company.

Bob Miller

I'm sure we could raise enough money to send you to a country that uses
codfm if you promise to stay there.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

Start another thread Bob - Don't hijack this one.

Jim
"Bob Miller" wrote in message
nk.net...
wrote:
Bob Miller wrote:
wrote:
Has anyone, anywhere in the USA, seen any stores actually hooking up an
antenna, inside or outside, and showing to consumers just how well OTA
digital and high definition TV really works?

As compared to ALL stores in any other country using COFDM where they
would be out of business if they did not have their products on display
receiving OTA DTV.

The US has the worst DTV OTA modulation in the world, 8-VSB, and any
retailer here would be crazy to have ANY of his products hooked up to
OTA DTV.

Retailers are not crazy so in the US they don't hook up to our garbage
8-VSB while in all other countries retailers DO display OTA DTV.

Bob Miller

Bob, you are a complete ****ing asshole. Go away somewhere
and kill yourself. Leave your body for the maggots to eat.

To everyone else, sorry for my rant and Bob bashing. He brings
out the worst in me, but then again, all liars and shills do
that to me.

8-VSB works just fine. Maybe CODFM does too, but we don't use
it here in the US.

Chip

8-VSB does not work fine. It is garbage. OTA in the US is failing. No one
supports it. Even LG Industries which owns the IP rights (royalties) has
ceased making receivers here while making COFDM receivers in most other
countries.

And we DO use COFDM in the US. It is the modulation of Sirius and XM. It
is the modulation of 802.11g/a. It is the modulation of most wireless
systems today.

COFDM is used by ALL those who have bid on and will use the TV channels
that have been auctioned so far, 54, 55 and 59 and will be the modulation
used for all channels to be auctioned, 52, 53, 56, 57 and 58 next January.

COFDM will be used by early responders on channels 60 and above. Never
heard of anything that was critical using 8-VSB have you?

COFDM will also be the modulation used on channels below 51 after the
transition is deemed a complete failure in the next few years and Congress
proceeds to reclaim this spectrum for better purposes.

COFDM is use for transmitting the HDTV signal from those news helicopters
back to the studio and for the wireless studio cameras in those studios.

The only place that COFDM is not used is in the broadcast itself for
channels below 51 at the present. That is also the only place that is in
need of a government mandate to hide its total failure.

It is simple, 8-VSB is garbage and an utter failure.

Bob Miller

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:37:25 -0400, Bill R
wrote:

If you go to the "high end" stores (not the big box brand name stores)
you will be able to see setups with OTA, cable, DISH Network, DirecTV
and any other service that may be available in your area. The people
that work in those store are very knowledgeable, and while the store
prices are higher than the big box stores, for people that need it, the
pre sales and post sales support are well worth it.

I like to pay for *some* service, but the local standalone Magnolia
wants $1450 for the same Sony that's $1250 at BestBuy, and I take it
home and plug it in either way.

And then there's the real high-end places down the street.

J.

On Jun 29, 7:46 am, Bob Miller wrote:
NadCixelsyd wrote:
I get my reception OTA. When I saw how much better it was, I dumped
cable. I find USA OTA-HD to be just fine and I'm saving $1000 a year.

I have no idea what 8-VSB and COFDM are or what the differences are.
I can not speak to the merits of one over the other. If COFDM is
better, I don't know what I'm missing. However, I'm really getting
annoyed at Bob Miller's soap-box bashing of 8-VSB. Like it or not,
it's the law. Complain to your Congressman because we, here, have no
control over the issue. I know I'm not alone he we're tired of
your bitching.

"We" have all the control over the issue. We live in a democracy. Unless
of course "We" don't think we have any control. In that case we are
f*****!!!

A billion or more people in China lived their lives until recently not
knowing what they were "missing".

If you are easily "annoyed" by those who might be telling you what you
are missing you probably will miss a lot.

Now that the Chinese have some knowledge of what they have missed in the
past they are not settling for garbage like 8-VSB. Their US trained
scientist and engineers are demanding the best and they have it in
DMB-T/H, the Chinese HDTV modulation.

Bob Miller

Bob, you're confusing democracy with technical standards. First off,
we _don't_ live in a democracy but a representative republic. I don't
WANT to live in a democracy. Too danged much work dealing all the
various ideas.

I DO have thousands of hours dealing with 8VSB and I have no
complaints with it. The bulk of the problems (and few of those) relate
more to PSIP issues. I don't care a fig about what other countries use
as long as what I have works for me. And it does. The grass is ALWAYS
greener somwhere else - even when it isn't.

You seem to have this 'all or nothing' mentality that is just plain
dumb. The team that won the super bowl is the best and everyone else
sucks. 'Taint true. COFDM may be better under some, but not all,
conditions as I see breakup from the helicopter in spite of COFDM.

Have a nice day (if you can)

GG