EchoStar Rolls Out New HDTV Receiver - ViP222

AMUN wrote:

"Jud Hardcastle" wrote in message
al.net...

In article , jeffdb27
says...

W² wrote:


"AMUN" wrote in message
...


"Dan G" wrote in message
news:[email protected] .com...


"AMUN" wrote in message
...


"Dan G" wrote in message
news:[email protected] st.com...


"AMUN" wrote in message
...


One HD one SD,....that should make a lot of people happy to have to
pay
extra to get HD, and only get half.

There are no dual-tuner receivers that offer HD from both outputs.
Probably
never will be. But that doesn't mean you can't watch HD programming
on
both
TVs.

True, But as it's getting harder and harder to find new NON-HD tv's
in
the
stores.
And talk is about switching more and more content to HD.

Why bother rolling out a "NEW" product that doesn't offer two
independent

HD


tuner outputs ?

Maybe dish is not that interested in HD ?

Like I said, there are NO sat receivers with 2 HD outputs, it's not
just
a
Dish thing. Both tuners DO get HD channels. Since the 2nd out is
generally
assumed to be for a remote TV, how would you have them transmit an HD
signal over a long distance?


Just send the second TV an RF signal in ATSC! Dish already knows how
to
make an ATSC modulator. I had one with my Model 5000 receiver.



It seems to me like they are going to have to do this eventually.
Either that, or abandon dual output tuners altoghether. If they start
manufacturing TVs without NTSC tuners in them at all... Or, did I hear
mention of a 100' HDMI cable?

Jeff Burris
Salina, Kansas


An ATSC RF modulator makes too much sense but bet you never see it
happen again due to copy protection issues. And they already have 100'
cables--pricey though.
http://tinyurl.com/2g4n5w
--
Jud
Dallas TX USA


What the real issue is though is that it will still always be cheaper (and
easier) to run an extra piece of RG-6 coax to a separate receiver.
So HDTV Dual-tuner, dual hd output, still will be silly.

Now if only Dish would smarten up and come out with a solution that works on
cat-6 networks that most already have, maybe more would be interested.

Oh, wait,.....that would mean hooking into computers,...oh oh,....I can
already hear the testing community drooling. LOL



I thought I heard a hint of them somehow linking two 622s together
(through cat 5/6) in a future version of the software. Of course you
have to buy/lease two 622s.

They said the reason they haven't, and are not going to, have a dual
HDTV output receiver is because it would beat the heck out of the hard
drive. This doesn't makes sense to me, because if you deliver HD to the
other 622 via Cat5/6 or however, wouldn't it still "beat the heck out of
the hard drive" of the unit with the HD content?

Jeff Burris
Salina, Kansas

Jeff Burris wrote:
AMUN wrote:

"Jud Hardcastle" wrote in
message al.net...

In article , jeffdb27
@hotmail.com says...

W² wrote:


"AMUN" wrote in message
...


"Dan G" wrote in message
. ..


"AMUN" wrote in message
...


"Dan G" wrote in message
. ..


"AMUN" wrote in message
...


One HD one SD,....that should make a lot of people happy to
have to
pay
extra to get HD, and only get half.

There are no dual-tuner receivers that offer HD from both outputs.
Probably
never will be. But that doesn't mean you can't watch HD
programming on
both
TVs.

True, But as it's getting harder and harder to find new NON-HD
tv's in
the
stores.
And talk is about switching more and more content to HD.

Why bother rolling out a "NEW" product that doesn't offer two
independent

HD


tuner outputs ?

Maybe dish is not that interested in HD ?

Like I said, there are NO sat receivers with 2 HD outputs, it's
not just
a
Dish thing. Both tuners DO get HD channels. Since the 2nd out is
generally
assumed to be for a remote TV, how would you have them transmit
an HD
signal over a long distance?


Just send the second TV an RF signal in ATSC! Dish already knows
how to
make an ATSC modulator. I had one with my Model 5000 receiver.



It seems to me like they are going to have to do this eventually.
Either that, or abandon dual output tuners altoghether. If they start
manufacturing TVs without NTSC tuners in them at all... Or, did I hear
mention of a 100' HDMI cable?

Jeff Burris
Salina, Kansas


An ATSC RF modulator makes too much sense but bet you never see it
happen again due to copy protection issues. And they already have 100'
cables--pricey though.
http://tinyurl.com/2g4n5w
--
Jud
Dallas TX USA


What the real issue is though is that it will still always be cheaper
(and easier) to run an extra piece of RG-6 coax to a separate receiver.
So HDTV Dual-tuner, dual hd output, still will be silly.

Now if only Dish would smarten up and come out with a solution that
works on cat-6 networks that most already have, maybe more would be
interested.

Oh, wait,.....that would mean hooking into computers,...oh oh,....I
can already hear the testing community drooling. LOL


I thought I heard a hint of them somehow linking two 622s together
(through cat 5/6) in a future version of the software. Of course you
have to buy/lease two 622s.

They said the reason they haven't, and are not going to, have a dual
HDTV output receiver is because it would beat the heck out of the hard
drive. This doesn't makes sense to me, because if you deliver HD to the
other 622 via Cat5/6 or however, wouldn't it still "beat the heck out of
the hard drive" of the unit with the HD content?


But isn't the decoding (and downrezzing if applicable) done after the
data is read from the hard drive? I don't see why it would be any
greater load on the drive to do this.

Bob Nielsen wrote:

Jeff Burris wrote:

AMUN wrote:

"Jud Hardcastle" wrote in
message al.net...

In article , jeffdb27
@hotmail.com says...

W² wrote:


"AMUN" wrote in message
...


"Dan G" wrote in message
. ..


"AMUN" wrote in message
...


"Dan G" wrote in message
. ..


"AMUN" wrote in message
...


One HD one SD,....that should make a lot of people happy to
have to
pay
extra to get HD, and only get half.


There are no dual-tuner receivers that offer HD from both
outputs.
Probably
never will be. But that doesn't mean you can't watch HD
programming on
both
TVs.


True, But as it's getting harder and harder to find new NON-HD
tv's in
the
stores.
And talk is about switching more and more content to HD.

Why bother rolling out a "NEW" product that doesn't offer two
independent


HD


tuner outputs ?

Maybe dish is not that interested in HD ?


Like I said, there are NO sat receivers with 2 HD outputs, it's
not just
a
Dish thing. Both tuners DO get HD channels. Since the 2nd out is
generally
assumed to be for a remote TV, how would you have them transmit
an HD
signal over a long distance?



Just send the second TV an RF signal in ATSC! Dish already knows
how to
make an ATSC modulator. I had one with my Model 5000 receiver.



It seems to me like they are going to have to do this eventually.
Either that, or abandon dual output tuners altoghether. If they start
manufacturing TVs without NTSC tuners in them at all... Or, did I
hear
mention of a 100' HDMI cable?

Jeff Burris
Salina, Kansas


An ATSC RF modulator makes too much sense but bet you never see it
happen again due to copy protection issues. And they already have 100'
cables--pricey though.
http://tinyurl.com/2g4n5w
--
Jud
Dallas TX USA



What the real issue is though is that it will still always be cheaper
(and easier) to run an extra piece of RG-6 coax to a separate receiver.
So HDTV Dual-tuner, dual hd output, still will be silly.

Now if only Dish would smarten up and come out with a solution that
works on cat-6 networks that most already have, maybe more would be
interested.

Oh, wait,.....that would mean hooking into computers,...oh oh,....I
can already hear the testing community drooling. LOL


I thought I heard a hint of them somehow linking two 622s together
(through cat 5/6) in a future version of the software. Of course you
have to buy/lease two 622s.

They said the reason they haven't, and are not going to, have a dual
HDTV output receiver is because it would beat the heck out of the hard
drive. This doesn't makes sense to me, because if you deliver HD to
the other 622 via Cat5/6 or however, wouldn't it still "beat the heck
out of the hard drive" of the unit with the HD content?


But isn't the decoding (and downrezzing if applicable) done after the
data is read from the hard drive? I don't see why it would be any
greater load on the drive to do this.

Well, I believe it does have to read or write a lot more data for HD.
Currently you can record three HD programs at once and watch a
prerecorded one at the same time.

I guess your point might be that if SD TV2 is watching a prerecorded HD
program at the same time, it still has to read that same data off the
hard drive before down-rezing it... so why not just output it in HD as well?

Jeff Burris
Salina, Kansas

In alt.dbs.echostar Bob Nielsen wrote:

But isn't the decoding (and downrezzing if applicable) done after the
data is read from the hard drive? I don't see why it would be any
greater load on the drive to do this.

Hey! Boyz! Please consider post editing your messages so that you aren't
commenting 10 days worth of text!

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse

Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow they may make it illegal.

"Jeff Burris" wrote in message
...
Well, I believe it does have to read or write a lot more data for HD.
Currently you can record three HD programs at once and watch a
prerecorded one at the same time.

I guess your point might be that if SD TV2 is watching a prerecorded HD
program at the same time, it still has to read that same data off the
hard drive before down-rezing it... so why not just output it in HD as
well?

Jeff Burris
Salina, Kansas

The drive is recording both outputs all the time, even while you're watching
a recording. Data rates for HD are several times higher than for SD, so it
makes sense that the current drives cannot keep up with that demand. It's
not just the total data rate of all the operations, but the number of seeks
and read/write operations in a given moment is also a big factor. The
drive's head can only be in one place at a time. Although there is a small
memory buffer for the drive, this is seriously inadequate for multiple
operations occurring at once. I suspect that even with TV2 in SD mode, the
dual-output drive is nearly maxed out. Although I'm sure there are many
other non-stated reasons for Dish not wanting receivers with 2 HD outputs.

Dan G wrote:
"Jeff Burris" wrote in message
...
Well, I believe it does have to read or write a lot more data for HD.
Currently you can record three HD programs at once and watch a
prerecorded one at the same time.

I guess your point might be that if SD TV2 is watching a prerecorded HD
program at the same time, it still has to read that same data off the
hard drive before down-rezing it... so why not just output it in HD as
well?
Jeff Burris
Salina, Kansas

The drive is recording both outputs all the time, even while you're watching
a recording. Data rates for HD are several times higher than for SD, so it
makes sense that the current drives cannot keep up with that demand. It's
not just the total data rate of all the operations, but the number of seeks
and read/write operations in a given moment is also a big factor. The
drive's head can only be in one place at a time. Although there is a small
memory buffer for the drive, this is seriously inadequate for multiple
operations occurring at once. I suspect that even with TV2 in SD mode, the
dual-output drive is nearly maxed out.

While the above is true, it missed the point in Jeff's previous
paragraph. The current disks are handling two (or even three) HD inputs
and two HD outputs. If you are watching a show that was recorded in HD,
even if the output has been downresed to SD for TV 2, the amount of
data, the number of seeks, etc. on the drive are the same as if it was
going to an HD set.

In other words, the data coming off the disk is in HD, (as that is the
way it was recorded so it must be.) Only later in the output processing
is the signal converted to SD, but this doesn't affect the disk. So if
the second output were, in fact, HD, it wouldn't put any more demand on
the disk than it is currently supporting with the SD output.


Although I'm sure there are many
other non-stated reasons for Dish not wanting receivers with 2 HD outputs.

Well, the receiver would cost some more as it would require two HD
output chips and two HDMI connectors etc. It might also lead to more
customer service calls as customers try to do strange things to get long
distances with the HD signal.

--
- Stephen Fuld
(e-mail address disguised to prevent spam)

"Dan G" wrote in message
. ..

"AMUN" wrote in message
...

One HD one SD,....that should make a lot of people happy to have to pay
extra to get HD, and only get half.




There are no dual-tuner receivers that offer HD from both outputs.
Probably
never will be. But that doesn't mean you can't watch HD programming on
both
TVs.



How does that work? Am I missing something in the setup of the SD output of
my VIP 622? The HD channels don't show up in the guide. How do I watch those
channels? I don't really care if those are HD or not on that set.
Thanks,
Snyde

"Dan G" wrote in message
. ..

"AMUN" wrote in message
...

One HD one SD,....that should make a lot of people happy to have to pay
extra to get HD, and only get half.




There are no dual-tuner receivers that offer HD from both outputs.
Probably
never will be. But that doesn't mean you can't watch HD programming on
both
TVs.


Please disregard my other message about not seeing the HD channels on the SD
output of my VIP 622. It's early and I haven't had enough coffee yet. I was
actually looking at my other receiver, a 522.
DUH. Open mouth, insert foot.
Snyde