I am such a dick!

"Lord Turkey Cough" wrote in message
...

"Pyriform" wrote in message
...
Lord Turkey Cough wrote:
Of course public transport use more CO2 not less, as buses make
the return journey virtually empty.

I had no idea there were CO2 powered buses. Do they use soda-syphon
engines?
Well you are just thick. Thats all.
Every knows an ICE is powered by CO2
Here is a page to expalin it to you.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/ks3bite..._react_7.shtml


It's designed for kids so even a thicko like you might be able to grasp
it.


Honestly :rolls eyes:


Ha Ha that shut you up didn't it you showed youself up badly there. Ha ha ha

Lord Turkey Cough wrote:

Ha Ha that shut you up didn't it you showed youself up badly there. Ha ha
ha

Get help.

"Lord Turkey Cough" wrote in message
...

"Lord Turkey Cough" wrote in message
...

"Pyriform" wrote in message
...
Lord Turkey Cough wrote:
Of course public transport use more CO2 not less, as buses make
the return journey virtually empty.

I had no idea there were CO2 powered buses. Do they use soda-syphon
engines?
Well you are just thick. Thats all.
Every knows an ICE is powered by CO2
Here is a page to expalin it to you.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/ks3bite..._react_7.shtml


It's designed for kids so even a thicko like you might be able to grasp
it.


Honestly :rolls eyes:


Ha Ha that shut you up didn't it you showed youself up badly there. Ha ha
ha


No tacs 4 me :O)

+tacos+ wrote:
Lord Turkey Cough wrote:

Ha Ha that shut you up didn't it you showed youself up badly there.
Ha ha ha

Get help.

He's beyond help. Stop feeding the troll.

The message
from Dominic contains these words:

Johnny B Good wrote:
The message
from Dominic contains these words:
I also use energy saving lightbulbs, and bugger the
fact that they have a horrible power factor

Only the first generation CFLs limited to 20 watts max to take
advantage of the regs pertaining to domestic use permitting such loads
to be without a PF correction capacitor would present such a problem.

The reason you never saw such CFLs rated any higher than 18 watts was
to guarantee that it would keep below the twenty watt limit even at the
highest permitted supply voltage and worst case manufacturing
tolerances.

The more modern electronically ballasted lightweight CFLs have a PF of
nearly unity even if the commutating effect of the full wave rectifier
on the current is to produce narrow (but still in-phase) conduction
angles. The conduction angle would be even narrower except for the fact
that our so called 50Hz 'Sinewave' mains supply is quite grossly
distorted with the peaks being rather flatter than a real sinewave.


Fair enough then. I still wonder if the manufacturing costs of CFLs
outweighs the power savings; assuming that you replace them
when they get annoyingly dim which I suspect is rather sooner
than the '8 years' life quoted on the box...

I suppose with the number of non-linear loads on the mains
(transformers/bridge rectifiers and switch mode supplies) it
might be surprising if the mains stayed a perfect sine wave. I've
not recently connected a suitable scope input to the mains...
always assumed the nasty mains cycle shape you see (by
touching a scope probe, for example) was due to poor coupling
of the waveform through my body into the scope.

I used to assume the same for the 50Hz 'calibration source' on my scope
(about 2 or 3v off a seperate dedicated winding on the PSU mains
transformer) but I got rather suspicious when the waveform looked
exactly the same using an independent mains stepdown transformer.

This led me to examine the 'sinewave output' of a secondhand Upsonic
UPS600 unit I had handy (I'd previously witnessed the 'horror of quasi
sinewave' output on an even more elderly Emerson UPS, still in service
today, so wasn't expecting much by way of sinewave purity).

The result, to my astonishment, was the purest looking 50Hz sinetone
I'd ever witnessed on any scope, even when using the scope's own 50Hz
calibration source. IOW, a true sine output UPS gives purer mains
voltage than the mains supply itself when running off its battery.

Must try a toy energy meter (like
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/Electrica...sp?sku=PL09564
) and check out some of the appliances (and light bulbs!) at home.

"Toy energy meter" is a very apt description. They're not too bad for
non reactive loads above 10 watts such as lamp and heater filaments, but
can show anomalous readings for reactive (and narrow conduction angle
current) loads below 50 watts. The main problem with the cheaper digital
power meter is the low sampling frequency and resolution of the ADC
components used in these designs.

Trouble is, to get a decent digital powermeter, you need to spend
hundreds of pounds rather ten or so (or else buy a seconhand analogue
wattmeter for around 30 to 50 quid if you only need +/- 3 % (but
consistent) accuracy.

The major weakness with the analogue type is that loads with extremely
narrow conduction angles can cause under-reading errors due to
saturation of the magnetic material used in the field part of the meter
by the extremely high current spikes that can result.

Fortunately, this effect usually manifests itself as an audible buzz
from the meter itself and, accepting a reduced accuracy of resolution
due to the lower scale deflection, can be overcome by increasing the
current range to the next higher one than would usually be used for a
less extreme load. IOW, even this limitation can be compensated for (if
in doubt, try the next amps range setting and compare results).

About ten years ago, I invested £35 in a secondhand german made
'Metrawatt' (a radio ham rally purchase). It did seem, at the time,
rather a lot of money to spend on a meter that I reckoned would only
find occasional use but it turned out to be a very useful diagnostic
tool for investigating a surprisingly wide range of PC problems. I don't
know how I'd manage without my trusty Metrawatt now!

I got hold of a cheap (£9.99) meter a few months back (the Wetekom
PM-30-UK model) similar to that cpc offering (basically the same spec).
BTW, I was rather amused by the 'power consumption' for the cpc one
being given as 20VA (Don't they know the unit of power is the watt? :-).
That alone should shatter any illusions over the accuracy of such a
product.

TBH, _this_ was more of a 'novelty purchase' to satisfy my curiousity
over the 'accuracy' issues that had occasionally been mentioned of
similar cheap 'n' cheerful 'energy monitors' in various news groups.

Anybody using such a meter without the luxury of witnessing the
discrepencies between it and a real wattmeter with low power devices
would end up making some rather strange conclusions regarding the power
consumed by plugtop powered and similarly low powered electronic
devices. As a test meter for such kit, these meters are pretty well
worse than useless and certainly no substitute for 'The Real Thing'.

If you just want to monitor total daily or weekly power consumption of
your electrical white goods appliances such as washing machine, kettle,
toaster, fridge or freezer (or even your "George Formby" lean 'n' mean
grilling machine :-), then it will do a reasonable job. Any other use,
though, is likely to produce untrustworthy results, so beware!

--
Regards, John.

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from "Lord Turkey Cough" contains these words:


"Lord Turkey Cough" wrote in message
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"Johnny B Good" wrote in message
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"Rob" wrote in message
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"Phil Cook" wrote in
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Dave wrote:

I don't think cars should be allowed to be driven along city streets
spewing out noxious chemicals often only carrying one person when
there is a perfectly good alternative means of transport available.

Electric buses and cars are the answer, but they seem no nearer to
becoming
popular than they did 10 years ago!

So the pollution can be generated out of the cities at the power
stations,
so we can have it instead of you. Bugger that!

Bill

That's a very spurious argument, specifying a positive benefit of such
a system as being a negative one from your PoV.

Please remember that pollution concentrated in and around town centres
will eventually dissipate into the wider countryside. In all
probability, contributing more than that generated by power stations
which at least use tall chimney stacks to more evenly (and thinly)
distribute it amongs the general world population.

Taking into account that a lot of the energy that has to be entirely
dissipated as heat energy in braking systems in such start/stop
transportation systems can be recycled thus reducing the overall energy
consumed by the current ICE powered systems.

If anything, a well designed electric powered public transport system
would reduce overall pollution levels nationwide and, more importantly,
eliminate the concentrated pollution levels associated with today's ICE
powered public transport systems currently running in and around city
and town centres.


I rather doubt that.
You have any idea how much fuel a fully laden bus uses stoping and starting
every 400 yards?

I don't have any _actual_ figures to hand so I can't provide any
absolute figures for you to play around with, but I think it would be a
reasonable assumption that it would be significantly more than that used
covering such distances at a steady 30mph in top gear.

BTW, are you agreeing or disagreeing with my assertion? On the one
hand, your statement "I rather doubt that." suggests disagreement whilst
your question, on the other hand, rather implies you've grasped my
point. :-)

--
Regards, John.

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The address has been munged to reject Spam-bots.

"Johnny B Good" wrote in message
.. .
The message
from "Lord Turkey Cough" contains these words:


"Lord Turkey Cough" wrote in message
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"Johnny B Good" wrote in message
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from "Bill Wright" contains these
words:


"Rob" wrote in message
...

"Phil Cook" wrote in
message
...
Dave wrote:

I don't think cars should be allowed to be driven along city
streets
spewing out noxious chemicals often only carrying one person when
there is a perfectly good alternative means of transport
available.

Electric buses and cars are the answer, but they seem no nearer to
becoming
popular than they did 10 years ago!

So the pollution can be generated out of the cities at the power
stations,
so we can have it instead of you. Bugger that!

Bill

That's a very spurious argument, specifying a positive benefit of such
a system as being a negative one from your PoV.

Please remember that pollution concentrated in and around town centres
will eventually dissipate into the wider countryside. In all
probability, contributing more than that generated by power stations
which at least use tall chimney stacks to more evenly (and thinly)
distribute it amongs the general world population.

Taking into account that a lot of the energy that has to be entirely
dissipated as heat energy in braking systems in such start/stop
transportation systems can be recycled thus reducing the overall
energy
consumed by the current ICE powered systems.

If anything, a well designed electric powered public transport system
would reduce overall pollution levels nationwide and, more
importantly,
eliminate the concentrated pollution levels associated with today's
ICE
powered public transport systems currently running in and around city
and town centres.


I rather doubt that.
You have any idea how much fuel a fully laden bus uses stoping and
starting
every 400 yards?

I don't have any _actual_ figures to hand so I can't provide any
absolute figures for you to play around with, but I think it would be a
reasonable assumption that it would be significantly more than that used
covering such distances at a steady 30mph in top gear.

BTW, are you agreeing or disagreeing with my assertion? On the one
hand, your statement "I rather doubt that." suggests disagreement whilst
your question, on the other hand, rather implies you've grasped my
point. :-)

NoI thinkI was basically implying your ratther lacking in initelligence.


--
Regards, John.

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The address has been munged to reject Spam-bots.

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 02:25:06 +0100, Johnny B Good
wrote:

Trouble is, to get a decent digital powermeter, you need to spend
hundreds of pounds rather ten or so (or else buy a seconhand analogue
wattmeter for around 30 to 50 quid if you only need +/- 3 % (but
consistent) accuracy.

The major weakness with the analogue type is that loads with extremely
narrow conduction angles can cause under-reading errors due to
saturation of the magnetic material used in the field part of the meter
by the extremely high current spikes that can result.

What about the energy meter under the stairs? Admittedly these meters
are not quite so convenient for checking individual appliances, but
they determine how much energy you pay for. Isn't there a legal
requirement that they work to some specified level of accuracy, and
with any load the householder is likely to apply?

Rod.

Lord Turkey Cough wrote:

NoI thinkI was basically implying your ratther lacking in initelligence.

Spelling and grammar that's typical of Alzheimer's doesn't help your case.

The message
from Roderick Stewart contains these
words:

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 02:25:06 +0100, Johnny B Good
wrote:

Trouble is, to get a decent digital powermeter, you need to spend
hundreds of pounds rather ten or so (or else buy a seconhand analogue
wattmeter for around 30 to 50 quid if you only need +/- 3 % (but
consistent) accuracy.

The major weakness with the analogue type is that loads with extremely
narrow conduction angles can cause under-reading errors due to
saturation of the magnetic material used in the field part of the meter
by the extremely high current spikes that can result.

What about the energy meter under the stairs? Admittedly these meters
are not quite so convenient for checking individual appliances, but
they determine how much energy you pay for. Isn't there a legal
requirement that they work to some specified level of accuracy, and
with any load the householder is likely to apply?

Absolutely! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_meter is an
interesting read.

--
Regards, John.

Please remove the "ohggcyht" before replying.
The address has been munged to reject Spam-bots.