$300 Hi-Def DVD

Lloyd Parsons wrote:
In article . net,
Randell Tarin wrote:


Lloyd Parsons wrote:


In article k.net,
Randell Tarin wrote:



Generally speaking, do all HD/Blu-Ray players up-rez standard def DVDs?



Yes, but only through the HDMI connector. And the quality of the
playback with standard DVDs has been an issue. The 1st generation
players didn't do a very good job at all.

The best that do up-rezzing are the PS3 and the Samsung BD-P1200 @$599
and $799 respectively. Actually the PS3 needs the Bluetooth remote, so
add $25 for it...

HD-DVD players all do up-rezzing quite well. I have the HD-A2 from
Toshiba that is their entry level, 2nd generation and it does a
wonderful job. The quality of the up-rez is better than my Sony
up-rezzing standard changer, by a long shot.

HD sounds like the way to go for me. I have a large standard-def DVD
collection. It's likely that future purchases would be in HD provided
that the titles I want are available in HD and not just Blu-ray.

I'm leary about buying now because I was the one who invested
heavily in the superior Sony Betamax format years ago.

We all know how that ended.


I can only speak for me, but here how I was thinking when I decided to
go HD-DVD vice BluRay. After looking over both formats, I found that
there were plenty of titles on both that I would want to see, which
meant that unless I wanted to buy both, I would have to be satisfied
with standard DVDs for those titles not carried by whichever format I
went with.

I found that both offered plenty of titles of things I would rent/buy.
So then it came down to :

1. Is the standard set? In the case of HD-DVD it is. BluRay not quite
yet. There is a standard that all of the BluRay machines mfg'd after
10/31/2007 have to meet, but in the meantime, they can and do not offer
all of it. Most of those changes seem to center around added
capability, but the unanswered question is will newer BluRay disks, with
the added features still work on older players? I have not been able to
find a definitive source to answer that question.

This seems to make the PS3 the most sensible BluRay player in that it is
better suited to have add-ons made for it, or at least that's my
thinking.

2. Price! Let's face it, we all work (in my case worked) hard for our
money. With my 61" 1080i TV, the entry level Toshiba HD-A2 @$299 with
10 movies just suited me to a 'T'.

You're right. There are few movies I actually want to purchase....we
mostly rent. I'm watching on a 720p 42" Pioneer Plasma. Standard def
looks pretty good without up-rezzing. So, unless I actually want a PS3,
which is doubtful at my age, HD would suffice.

In article ,
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote:

In article ,
Lloyd Parsons wrote:

Panasonic has a 2nd Generation player that should be shipping next
month. Retail $599 with 5 movies you probably would buy right in the
box. One major fault, imo, is the lack of ethernet to make firmware
updates easy.

If they're smart, they build it so that you can insert a disc with the
new firmware on it and have it update from there.

That solves the problem in a MUCH more elegant way than having ethernet
on board.

In fact, in this day and age, I don't want any excuse for my
entertainment devices to have network connectivity. DiVX, anyone?

Well, then if you had one without connectivity, you would have been
sorely disappointed with the release of Pirates of the Caribbean
recently. Most, if not all of the current players puked on them,
requiring an update.

No ethernet, no update, or at least not for awhile. You'd have to wait
for a CD/DVD with it on there to be produced, then packaged, then
mailed. How long are you willing to wait?

Then with Ethernet, like my HD-A2, connect, update, done. Just a few
minutes. Just as it was for those that owned the PS3 or the HD-P1200.

On May 27, 4:04 pm, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
In article ,
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote:



In article ,
Lloyd Parsons wrote:

Panasonic has a 2nd Generation player that should be shipping
next
month. Retail $599 with 5 movies you probably would buy right
in the
box. One major fault, imo, is the lack of ethernet to make
firmware
updates easy.

If they're smart, they build it so that you can insert a disc
with the
new firmware on it and have it update from there.

That solves the problem in a MUCH more elegant way than having
ethernet
on board.

In fact, in this day and age, I don't want any excuse for my
entertainment devices to have network connectivity. DiVX,
anyone?

Well, then if you had one without connectivity, you would have been
sorely disappointed with the release of Pirates of the Caribbean
recently. Most, if not all of the current players puked on them,
requiring an update.

No ethernet, no update, or at least not for awhile. You'd have to
wait
for a CD/DVD with it on there to be produced, then packaged, then
mailed. How long are you willing to wait?

So you download an image of the disc, burn it in the computer and load
it into the player. Same download time as a network connection plus 2
minutes to burn a 20 cent disc. Doesn't seem like much of a penalty.
You can't burn a disc? Not many of us make that claim.

Then with Ethernet, like my HD-A2, connect, update, done. Just a
few
minutes. Just as it was for those that owned the PS3 or the HD-
P1200.

The real question is how long until someone comes up with a malicious
load for the players and starts screwing things up? "It will never
happen" are famous words.

GG

Thanks to everyone for the helpful information. Looks like good things
come to those that wait.

What I would like, but probably won't be able to get, is a player (not
yet decided between HD-DVD and Blue Ray) that would provide all the new
uncompressed surround sound formats, which I understand requires hdmi
1.3 connectivity. Also, I would like it to play SACDs audio discs with
good quality surround sound, as do several of the Oppo players. - Maybe
Oppo will come out with a universal HD player.

Jim




JimC wrote:
I'm seeing ads for Toshiba Hi-Def DVD players selling for $299. - Does
this signify a general softening of the HD-DVD market in general, or
just a local phenomena? If so, what's the cheapest BR these days? Or am
I misinterpreting the ads.

Jim

In article .com,
G-squared wrote:

On May 27, 4:04 pm, Lloyd Parsons wrote:
In article ,
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote:



In article ,
Lloyd Parsons wrote:

Panasonic has a 2nd Generation player that should be shipping
next
month. Retail $599 with 5 movies you probably would buy right
in the
box. One major fault, imo, is the lack of ethernet to make
firmware
updates easy.

If they're smart, they build it so that you can insert a disc
with the
new firmware on it and have it update from there.

That solves the problem in a MUCH more elegant way than having
ethernet
on board.

In fact, in this day and age, I don't want any excuse for my
entertainment devices to have network connectivity. DiVX,
anyone?

Well, then if you had one without connectivity, you would have been
sorely disappointed with the release of Pirates of the Caribbean
recently. Most, if not all of the current players puked on them,
requiring an update.

No ethernet, no update, or at least not for awhile. You'd have to
wait
for a CD/DVD with it on there to be produced, then packaged, then
mailed. How long are you willing to wait?

So you download an image of the disc, burn it in the computer and load
it into the player. Same download time as a network connection plus 2
minutes to burn a 20 cent disc. Doesn't seem like much of a penalty.
You can't burn a disc? Not many of us make that claim.

That hasn't always been possible. For instance, the latest update for
the Generation 2 Toshiba HD-DVDs isn't available as an iso yet.

Then with Ethernet, like my HD-A2, connect, update, done. Just a
few
minutes. Just as it was for those that owned the PS3 or the HD-
P1200.

The real question is how long until someone comes up with a malicious
load for the players and starts screwing things up? "It will never
happen" are famous words.

GG

And words I wouldn't utter! ;-)

In article ,
says...
In article ,
Lloyd Parsons wrote:

If they're smart, they build it so that you can insert a disc with the
new firmware on it and have it update from there.

That solves the problem in a MUCH more elegant way than having ethernet
on board.

In fact, in this day and age, I don't want any excuse for my
entertainment devices to have network connectivity. DiVX, anyone?

Well, then if you had one without connectivity, you would have been
sorely disappointed with the release of Pirates of the Caribbean
recently. Most, if not all of the current players puked on them,
requiring an update.

No ethernet, no update, or at least not for awhile. You'd have to wait
for a CD/DVD with it on there to be produced, then packaged, then
mailed. How long are you willing to wait?

dude, you simply download an update from their web site and make a CD or
DVD with it. Maybe you use their software to make the update disc. You
then take the update disc to the player and put it in.

What was so hard to understand about that?



That's how my plain old upconverting DVD player does updates. Burn a CD,
put it in, and it's done. I like that much better than any kind of
network connection.

As far as the HD/BlueRay "war" goes, I'm not biting until I can get a
cheap universal player, or HD throws in the towel. I really don't see
how HD is going to win this thing in the long run, once the price equals
out. There are too many big companies lined up against it. It's like
Beta and VHS all over again.

BDK

BDK wrote:


As far as the HD/BlueRay "war" goes, I'm not biting until I can get a
cheap universal player, or HD throws in the towel. I really don't see
how HD is going to win this thing in the long run, once the price equals
out.

What makes you think that BR prices will be as low as HD in anything but
the longest of terms? HD machines have the advantage of being compatible
with DVD tooling. All BR products require new, and very expensive,
tooling that has to be amortized. HD could have the price advantage for
years because the tooling for it already has been amortized.

Matthew

--
I'm a consultant. If you want an opinion I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?

I see more ads for movies coming on Blue-Ray than HD-DVD so right now I am
leaning that direction. However, for me it is still far too soon to make the
move to any HD DVD format. Part of me suspects that neither is going to win
and they will evently have to come together. The PlayStation 3 is not
selling well, the price is just too high even when you figure what you are
getting and what it would cost to buy each peice seperatly. But, that isn't
something many seem to consider.

Personally, I don't feel that either format is what is needed. They feel
like stop gap measures especially when you look at the computer side of it.
I know a great number of people that have more than are nearly 1 TeraByte of
computer storage space. I have almost 2 myself. What I hear most often is
that 50GB is nothing and I think they are right it is nothing. If a format
could survive without the computer end of it then HD DVD and Blue-Ray might
make it, but they can't and even the PS3 can't give them that.

Basically it is still too iffy to go with either one. Time will tell if one
is the next consumer format or if they are both the equivilent of Circuit
City's Divx format or Sony's Betamax.

=(8)

=(8) wrote:
I see more ads for movies coming on Blue-Ray than HD-DVD so right now I
am leaning that direction.

Ads are one thing, shipping product is another. BR leads HD 306 to 281
according to www.dvdpricesearch.com. Not enough difference in numbers to
matter much. Which movies are on which format is far more important to me.

Matthew

--
I'm a consultant. If you want an opinion I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?

In article ,
"=\(8\)" wrote:

I see more ads for movies coming on Blue-Ray than HD-DVD so right now I am
leaning that direction. However, for me it is still far too soon to make the
move to any HD DVD format. Part of me suspects that neither is going to win
and they will evently have to come together. The PlayStation 3 is not
selling well, the price is just too high even when you figure what you are
getting and what it would cost to buy each peice seperatly. But, that isn't
something many seem to consider.

Personally, I don't feel that either format is what is needed. They feel
like stop gap measures especially when you look at the computer side of it.
I know a great number of people that have more than are nearly 1 TeraByte of
computer storage space. I have almost 2 myself. What I hear most often is
that 50GB is nothing and I think they are right it is nothing. If a format
could survive without the computer end of it then HD DVD and Blue-Ray might
make it, but they can't and even the PS3 can't give them that.

Basically it is still too iffy to go with either one. Time will tell if one
is the next consumer format or if they are both the equivilent of Circuit
City's Divx format or Sony's Betamax.

=(8)

It is too early to tell what will or won't survive, but as to new
releases, currently Blu-Ray is seeing more blockbusters as you noted.
But I think most that are buying into HiDef DVDs now are as much into
some older movies as they are the blockbusters. Face it, these prices
are either at the top of the impulse buy range, or well over it.

The PS3 seems the best choice for the Blu-Ray crowd now, but that could
change in part, as you noted, the PS3 isn't really flying off the
shelves. From a technical side, it is the best current Blu-Ray player,
but I don't think it can go to HDMI 1.3 which would allow some further
lossless audio formats. I may be wrong on this though.

Computers are nice, but an HD movie is a huge file. With only 50%
broadband penetration and the fact that even with broadband, it takes
hours to download, I don't think that is going to go anywhere outside of
the geek world.