Actual Hard Disk Capacity ?

On Fri, 04 May 2007 16:57:45 +0000, Drew Lawson wrote:

In article [email protected]
writes:

Actually I need to correct myself. I typed the above pretty fast. It uses
a power of 1024 by default instead of 1000. 1024 is based on hex, while
1000 is based on decimal.

Stop digging while you can still see the top of the hole.

Hex is based on 16, which is 2^4. 1024 is 2^10.
What power do you raise 16 to to get 1024?

You figure it out. What I stated is correct. man df.

-H, --si
likewise, but use powers of 1000 not 1024

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Wes Newell wrote:
On Fri, 04 May 2007 11:39:32 -0400, Nik Simpson wrote:

Wes Newell wrote:
On Fri, 04 May 2007 05:54:10 +0000, MegaZone wrote:

shaped the electrons to say:
On May 2, 7:17 pm, (MegaZone) wrote:
No, actually, he's right. (Yes, I said Wes is right. He's annoying,
but not always ignorant.)
Well, if you say so, but I would love to see this base 16 computer of
his.....
OK, so he was right and wrong at the same time. :-) Right in that it
is the different base - base10 vs base2 - wrong in that he said
'base16' which is bull****.

Hey, it *is* Wes. ;-)

And for you morons, hex *IS* base 16. I've never heard of base 2 except as
binary. Oh, hex stands for hexidecimal for those that can't figure that
out. All computer op codes consist of hex, as does the numbering system
normally, though some CPU's do have a decimal mode of operation, and some
older ones may use octal (base 8).
Uh Wes, it would be a good idea to quit while your not too far behind.
The only reason you think computer opcodes are HEX is because for
convenience that's they way we write them down. Inside a computer all
data is represented in binary format. HEX is just a convenient shorthand
because it makes it easy to write down long binary strings as much
shorter character sequences. No computer represents numbers in decimal
or has a decimal mode of operation, perhaps you are thinking of BCD
encoding? And no, older computers didn't operate in octal we've simply
used octal as another convenient shorthand for binary.

Well, no **** Sherlock. Although with registers 64bit wide or more no one
hardly refers to binary any longer. It certainly has nothing to do with
HDD space.



So, are you denying that you said:

"All computer op codes consist of hex, as does the numbering system
normally, though some CPU's do have a decimal mode of operation, and
some older ones may use octal (base 8)."

Or are you accepting that this one of the most boneheaded statements
you've made in a long and illustrious career? For some reason you seem
hung up on HEX which as people have pointed out to you has absolutely
nothing to do with the way computers store information except as a
shorthand for representing binary numbers.

At no point anywhere inside a computer is HEX used, all registers are
binary, all memory address are binary, all disk block addresses are
binary, all data is binary. You might just well say that computers
represent data in ASCII since all possible binary numbers that can be
represented in a byte have an equivalent ASCII character associated with
them.
--
Nik Simpson

On Fri, 04 May 2007 15:13:17 GMT, Wes Newell
wrote:

On Fri, 04 May 2007 05:54:10 +0000, MegaZone wrote:

shaped the electrons to say:
On May 2, 7:17 pm, (MegaZone) wrote:
No, actually, he's right. (Yes, I said Wes is right. He's annoying,
but not always ignorant.)
Well, if you say so, but I would love to see this base 16 computer of
his.....

OK, so he was right and wrong at the same time. :-) Right in that it
is the different base - base10 vs base2 - wrong in that he said
'base16' which is bull****.

Hey, it *is* Wes. ;-)

And for you morons, hex *IS* base 16. I've never heard of base 2 except as
binary. Oh, hex stands for hexidecimal for those that can't figure that
out. All computer op codes consist of hex,

Such a thing may be possible, but I never heard of such (and I have
used a lot of microprocessors). The opcodes are binary. Hex is used
just as a way of writing numbers, since it's easier for people to
understand. The CPU never sees anything but binary.

as does the numbering system
normally, though some CPU's do have a decimal mode of operation,

You're probably thinking of BCD. It's binary with some hardware to
avoid illegal states. I remember studying such a counter in college.
It's a 4-bit binary counter with circuitry to recognize 1010b (10
decimal) and immediately reset the counter.

and some
older ones may use octal (base 8).

Almost certainly a way of writing numbers for people to read, NOT the
internal representation you say.

The fact that that I didn't mention the
FS taking up more space is simply because I didn't see it as necessary for
the info the OP needed. But in here I guess if I said the sun was a ball
of fire, ya'll would say I was wrong because i didn't explain the atomic
structure in detal. So be it.

BTW, 1024 is based on binary, 2^10. That would be 2.5 hex digits.
Written in hex, 1KB or memory hex addresses 000h-3FFh. 4KB has
addresses of 000h-FFFh.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Mark Lloyd wrote:
You're probably thinking of BCD. It's binary with some hardware to
avoid illegal states. I remember studying such a counter in college.
It's a 4-bit binary counter with circuitry to recognize 1010b (10
decimal) and immediately reset the counter.

Well, not really. To the best of my knowledge, on the 6502 the
"decimal" flag only affected ADC/SBC operands. Others, such as INC,
were not affected.

What you studied was probably a special-case BCD circuit. The general
case is a lot more... messy :-)

--
Stephen Harris

The truth is the truth, and opinion just opinion. But what is what?
My employer pays to ignore my opinions; you get to do it for free.

On May 4, 11:35 am, Wes Newell wrote:
For you people that don't understand this here is it in a form you can
understand. Normal size of HDD is sold as decimal. Your computer normally
reports the size in HEX. yes HEX, not base 2 or binary as some so called
informed person states.

Dear Troll:
A HD that contains 80 billion bytes would be represented in hex as
12A05F2000 bytes. Is this what your OS would report it as? Forget
about computers, you don't even have basic comprehension of middle
school math.

The output of your df command is likely in units of 2^20=1M and
2^30=1G, displayed in decimal.

In article . com
writes:

The output of your df command is likely in units of 2^20=1M and
2^30=1G, displayed in decimal.


Don't know about Wes's (I think he runs Linux, I run FreeBSD), but
my df supports both. The way I use it (-h), I get the binary based
units, as god intended. But you can also (-H) convince it to use
base-10 units.

Back to the original topic (or first tangent to that) the drive
that Seagate says is 300GB shows up with a (UFS) formatted size of
271GB (base 2 prefixes) or 291GB (base 10 prefixes).

--
|Drew Lawson | Mrs. Tweedy! |
| The chickens are revolting! |
|http://www.furrfu.com/ | |

shaped the electrons to say:
Well, no **** Sherlock. Although with registers 64bit wide or more no one
hardly refers to binary any longer.

I don't know what circles you move in Wes, but people I know in IT and
development talk about binary all the time. Everything you do with
computers boils down to binary. Hex, Octal, dotted-quad IPs, etc, are
just shorthand.

It certainly has nothing to do with HDD space.

Yes it does, Wes. Drive manufacturers represent drive size using
base10 (decimal) math. 1KB == 1,000 Bytes.

Operating systems use base2 (binary) math - NOT base16 (hexadecimal)
or base8 (octal). 1KB = 2^10 Bytes = 1,024 Bytes.

-MZ
--
URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-852-2171
URL:http://www.megazone.org/ URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/ Eris

shaped the electrons to say:
You figure it out. What I stated is correct. man df.

-H, --si
likewise, but use powers of 1000 not 1024

Wes, stop, you're making it worse.

From 'man df' on FreeBSD:

-H "Human-readable" output. Use unit suffixes: Byte, Kilobyte,
Megabyte, Gigabyte, Terabyte and Petabyte in order to reduce the
number of digits to four or fewer using base 10 for sizes.

-h "Human-readable" output. Use unit suffixes: Byte, Kilobyte,
Megabyte, Gigabyte, Terabyte and Petabyte in order to reduce the
number of digits to four or fewer using base 2 for sizes.

Hmm, base10 and base2.

This is 'man df' on a Linux box:
-h, --human-readable
print sizes in human readable format (e.g., 1K 234M 2G)

-H, --si
likewise, but use powers of 1000 not 1024

Maybe it wasn't clear because it doesn't specify the base - but it is
the same thing, base10 and base2 - no base16.

-MZ
--
URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-852-2171
URL:http://www.megazone.org/ URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/ Eris

On 2007-05-04, Wes Newell wrote:
On Fri, 04 May 2007 16:57:45 +0000, Drew Lawson wrote:

In article [email protected]
writes:

Actually I need to correct myself. I typed the above pretty fast. It uses
a power of 1024 by default instead of 1000. 1024 is based on hex, while
1000 is based on decimal.

Stop digging while you can still see the top of the hole.

Hex is based on 16, which is 2^4. 1024 is 2^10.
What power do you raise 16 to to get 1024?

You figure it out. What I stated is correct. man df.

-H, --si
likewise, but use powers of 1000 not 1024

I've read man df, and nowhere does it mention hex or base 16, or base 2
for that matter. It does mention 1024, which is a mutltiple but not a power of
16. Bytes, which are a string of 8 bits and therefore have 2^8 (which also
happens to be 16^2) possible values, are often represented in
hexidecimal. Hard drives are represented in Gigabytes, which are 2^30
unless you are a marketing exec and then they are 1,000,000,000 bytes.
1 KB = 2^10, 1 MB = 2^20, 1 GB = 2^30, etc. Base 2. Yes, computers are
binary. The fact that we actually speak, think, and process data in
terms of bytes means that everything is also a multiple of 16, but only
because 16 is a power of 2.

Wes, your first post in this thread was helpful and relevant, but I
believe incorrect in just that tiny detail. The principle was spot on,
drives are not as big as marketers proclaim. Using base 10 when
representing disk size is sneaky and dirty IMO.

Jim

Wes Newell wrote:

Actually I need to correct myself. I typed the above pretty fast. It uses
a power of 1024 by default instead of 1000. 1024 is based on hex, while
1000 is based on decimal.

No, it is not. 1024 is based on powers of two that are not multiples
of four; therefore is is not based on hex.

Just leave the word "hex" out of the description of 1024.
-Joe