new to atsc

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote

"Digital quality" is as much crap as Madison Avenue has ever spouted.

I have digital downstairs on my HDTV and my bedroom TV (which I seldom use)
is still hooked to my analog roof antenna. In spite of the fact that the
roof antenna is top quality, it doesn't hold a candle to digital.

Bob Miller wrote:

The US had the worst digital TV modulation in the world.

Because of this no one is on board for the US digital transition.
Broadcaster, retailers, manufacturers and the public are ignoring it.

Bob Miller

Do you really believe some of the crap that you type or is it that your
ego is so big that you can't admit that you made the wrong choice in
your business decision?

ATSC is here NOW and it will be here for a long time in spite of your
lies and attempts to deceive the public that it doesn't work very well.

And, how can you say that broadcasters, retailers, and manufacturer are
not "on board"? Broadcasters are broadcasting in digital, retailers are
selling lots of digital sets (from the manufacturers). The pubic is
spending millions weekly on digital TV.
--
Bill R.

Remove nospam_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, Bob Miller wrote:
Japan has a very good digital modulation

Then why does it drop out all the time?

If COFDM is so good for mobile devices, then why does 1seg flake out when
the vehicle travels at more than about 15kph? Car or train, it was not
possible to keep the signal locked wile the vehicle was moving (and yes, I
was a passenger, not the driver).

If Japanese OTA digital TV is so wonderful, how come there are only 7 OTA
broadcasters in Tokyo, and fewer elsewhere? Why is it that most
programming in Japan continues to be cable/satellite only?

Even a minor US city like Seattle beats that with 14 OTA broadcasters, and
when you include subchannels the count goes up to over 30 channels.

Unlike the US system, the Japanese DTV system has no provision for
subchannels sharing space with HDTV. The signal has 13 segments; HDTV
takes up 12 and SD takes up 4. Thus, the choices are HDTV+1seg or
3xSD+1seg. Every Japanese broadcaster has chosen HDTV.

1seg isn't even SD quality; it is suitable only for tiny screens.
Currently it simulcasts with HDTV, but that is going to change soon to a
separate mobile track. Yet, even given the modest demands of 1seg, it
still doesn't work in a vehicle!

In the US we have lots of people buying OTA receivers that are not even aware
of it, are not using them and will not.

The only evidence for this claim is Psycho Bob says "this is so".

Fortunately, more and more people are coming to realize that Psycho Bob is
a Psycho Bob, an object of scorn, mockery, or (if you are charitable)
pity.

They are buying OTA receivers because
of a mandate whose purposes are political and have little to do with
promoting OTA use.

People buy HDTVs because they want HDTV.

People who have cable or satellite choose to buy receivers, as opposed to
monitors, in order to have the option of firing the cable/satellite
provider and not be stuck with a useless screen. They also do it to watch
OTA channels that aren't carried over cable or satellite. JUST AS IN
JAPAN.

Psycho Bob' business interests were best served as long as there was
continued bickering and confusion as to the DTV standard. The mandate put
an end to the bickering and confusion, and that is why he is so unhappy
about it.

Psycho Bob's claims to the contrary notwithstanding, Psycho Bob isn't
opposed to ATSC being the standard in North America. Psycho Bob is
opposed to there being ANY standard in North America.

When a standard happened, Psycho Bob lost his what was left of his sanity,
so now all he can do is post nonsense in the HDTV newsgroups.

The US had the worst digital TV modulation in the world.

Yes, the US had (note the past tense) the worst digital TV modulation in
the world when Psycho Bob and Sinclair spewed their non-working COFDM in
the air. Fortunately, we cleansed our airwaves of it. Now we have the
best OTA HDTV in the world.

Europe is now stuck with the worst DTV modulation in the world, and they
are getting unhappy at us laughing at them for going to all this expense
to switch to digital without getting HDTV.

Because of this no one is on board for the US digital transition.
Broadcaster, retailers, manufacturers and the public are ignoring it.

Yet another claim with no evidence other than Psycho Bob saying "this is
so".

Not so in most other countries that are going digital. The difference again
is the modulation.

By "most other countries", Psycho Bob means those countries in Europe
which have adopted a non-HDTV digital TV system. People in Europe are
screaming for HDTV. They've noticed how HDTV is available throughout the
USA, while Europe is undergoing an expensive transition to SD-only digital
TV -- a transition with no discernable benefit for consumers (particularly
those with cable or satellite who already get excellent SD pictures with
analog).

European lawmakers have noticed.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote:
In article ,
"dave gower" wrote:

"Digital quality" is as much crap as Madison Avenue has ever spouted.

I have digital downstairs on my HDTV and my bedroom TV (which I seldom
use) is still hooked to my analog roof antenna. In spite of the fact
that the roof antenna is top quality, it doesn't hold a candle to
digital.

....WHEN you get enough signal to produce the picture.

Apples to apples, when signal quality is down, digital can't hold a
candle to analog.

If the ota digital signal is so low, and it virtually never is,
that there is no picture, I throw in a dvd or watch Directv.
Pretty simple, maybe even you can understand it.

Chip

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"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote

... I understand that you're one of the mindless
masses that was so well represented in Apple's 1984 commercial. You
take whatever is fed you and are happy with it.

No he's well enough in his own mind not to have to run other people down to
feel good about himself. Pity about you tho. Like I said last time: grow up,
loser.

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
In article .com,
"mogator88" wrote:

For me digital means I get a signal that is almost always crystal
clear perfect, and I get several additional channels with real
programming.

no, you get a PICTURE that's almost always crystal clear perfect (the
signal is analog).

And when it's not crystal clear perfect, it DOESN'T EXIST.

Whoo-hooo! DIGITAL QUALITY!

What do you mean "several additional channels"? You mean you're
attracted to MORE programming? And the ugly American comes out: MORE
is BETTER!

What have I been saying for a long time now? What have the members of
this newsgroup been denying for a long time now? The American way of
MORE is BETTER is what digital TV is all about. It's not about HD.

As far as "real programming," there isn't any. It's the same old stuff.


You're intentionally mis-reading these posts. The original poster was
bragging about how good his digital reception is, receiving more
channels at better quality. So he wasn't saying quantity is better than
quality, he was saying more quantity at better quality. And I have to agree.

With analog, I could receive two channels very well and three channels
that were barely watchable due to ghosting. With digital, I receive
great pictures on all five of those channels, plus great pictures on
three more channels, plus great pictures on 8 additional sub-channels of
those channels, with the added benefit of about 90% of prime time stuff
in HD.

Bob Miller wrote:

In the US we have lots of people buying OTA receivers that are not even
aware of it, are not using them and will not. They are buying OTA
receivers because of a mandate whose purposes are political and have
little to do with promoting OTA use.


And exactly how do you know that people buying OTA receivers aren't
aware of it? The few polls that state their methodology that have
indicated that buyers aren't aren't using OTA admit that they assume the
homeowner isn't using OTA if they're using cable or satellite - bad
assumption!


In the US we have high powered transmitters everywhere which should make
for easy reception. Most problems, and there are lots of problems with
reception in the US, have to do with the choice of modulation.

Hooey-puck. You're ignoring all of the posts of folks getting great
reception (including my posts).

Over on dbsTalk, there's been several reports of people getting the new
version of DirecTv's HD PVR that are picking up OTA in a surprising
manner. IT seems that the newest version went to using an external
antenna for it's RF remote. Several users have reported that their
installer mounted the external RF remote antenna on the PVR's OTA
antenna input - and, to the user's surprise, they started receiving HD
and SD OTA signals!


The US had the worst digital TV modulation in the world.

Even if it's the worst, it's more than good enough!



Because of this no one is on board for the US digital transition.
Broadcaster, retailers, manufacturers and the public are ignoring it.

Nope, sorry, wrong again! Did you ever check with WRAL about them
supplying free OTA antennas with free installation to viewer in their area?



Not so in most other countries that are going digital. The difference
again is the modulation.


Yep, most other countries are going digital. Fortunately for us in the
USA, we're already gone digital and, to make it even better, we've gone HD!



Bob Miller

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

Apples to apples, when signal quality is down, digital can't hold a
candle to analog.

If the ota digital signal is so low, and it virtually never is,

Really?

I guess you don't have one of those broadcasters who put his antenna in
a "black hole" for some unknown reason.

I also guess you don't worry too much about non-local broadcasters--say,
50 miles away.

that there is no picture, I throw in a dvd or watch Directv.
Pretty simple, maybe even you can understand it.

So in other words, "yeah, it's different and not watchable, but I don't
care".

I understand it perfectly. I understand that you're one of the mindless
masses that was so well represented in Apple's 1984 commercial. You
take whatever is fed you and are happy with it.

You really are ****ed in the head Elmo. You cropped my reply to
make it sound as if there often is no picture. Have some balls
and quote it the way I posted it, you asshole.

Chip

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Bill R wrote:
Bob Miller wrote:

The US had the worst digital TV modulation in the world.

Because of this no one is on board for the US digital transition.
Broadcaster, retailers, manufacturers and the public are ignoring it.

Bob Miller

Do you really believe some of the crap that you type or is it that your
ego is so big that you can't admit that you made the wrong choice in
your business decision?

ATSC is here NOW and it will be here for a long time in spite of your
lies and attempts to deceive the public that it doesn't work very well.

And, how can you say that broadcasters, retailers, and manufacturer are
not "on board"? Broadcasters are broadcasting in digital, retailers are
selling lots of digital sets (from the manufacturers). The pubic is
spending millions weekly on digital TV.

Well there is your mistake. I was not talking about digital TV I was
talking about the over the air broadcast standard, 8-VSB. It is crap.

Retailers are selling lots of digital sets. This has nothing to do with
OTA digital modulation. They say that 87% of households depend on OTA
analog + OTA digital but 98 plus % of those who are buying these new
digital TV sets will attach them to cable or satellite and have their
fill of digital TV. Very few will bother are bothering with OTA.

Retailers are not on board with the analog to digital OTA transition.
Cable and satellite will convert to digital at their own speed they are
not part of the mandated OTA digital transition.

The public is spending billions on digital TV but not on OTA digital TV.
The US digital OTA spectrum is going to waste. If it continues Congress
is going to be looking into selling it within a few years.

Broadcasters are broadcasting in digital for one reason. Because to not
broadcast in digital is to abandon their license which is the only
reason they have most of their content that they can force on cable thru
must carry.

Without the license their reason for being disappears. Most would be
happy to turn off their transmitters to save the electric bill if they
could.

Bob Miller

Bob Miller wrote:

Well there is your mistake. I was not talking about digital TV I was
talking about the over the air broadcast standard, 8-VSB. It is crap.

Retailers are selling lots of digital sets. This has nothing to do with
OTA digital modulation. They say that 87% of households depend on OTA
analog + OTA digital but 98 plus % of those who are buying these new
digital TV sets will attach them to cable or satellite and have their
fill of digital TV. Very few will bother are bothering with OTA.

Retailers are not on board with the analog to digital OTA transition.
Cable and satellite will convert to digital at their own speed they are
not part of the mandated OTA digital transition.

The public is spending billions on digital TV but not on OTA digital TV.
The US digital OTA spectrum is going to waste. If it continues Congress
is going to be looking into selling it within a few years.

Broadcasters are broadcasting in digital for one reason. Because to not
broadcast in digital is to abandon their license which is the only
reason they have most of their content that they can force on cable thru
must carry.

Without the license their reason for being disappears. Most would be
happy to turn off their transmitters to save the electric bill if they
could.

Bob Miller

Doesn't your ass get sore the way you are constantly
pulling your bull**** stats out of it?

Chip

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