Doctor Who progressive or interlaced? How to record it digitally.

"Mel" wrote in message
...

"Agamemnon" wrote in message
news

"Stephen Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Edster" wrote in message
...
"Agamemnon" wrote in message

While I was editing the current episode of Andromeda on ITV4 in order
to
test out my new AVI/DivX/Xvid capture and editing software
(VirtualDub-MPEG2
1.6.15) which I recorded using the Xvid real time Codec set to
interlaced, I
noticed that the episode seem to have been either deintelaced at
source, ie.
by the broadcaster, since there is no motion blur in any of the frames
where
you would expect them to be such as rapid arm or hand movements.

Now the question is was Andromeda originally filmed as progressive
(this is
a 4/3 ratio episode from series 3 so I about it has been converted from
a
high definition 50p source) and is Doctor Who transmitted as
progressive ie.
every odd field is part of the same image as the even field or is it
interlaced? Also is it recorded as progressive?

I need to know this since I am planning to record it on Saturday and
need to
know how to set the Xvid encoder to get the best quality possible. The
DivX
codecs for some reason do not seem to appear in VirtualDub so I can't
record
with them, therefore in order to archive the recording I need to record
using Xvid (which I think uses less resources than DivX anyway from
when I
tested it last year) then covert to DivX so I can play the files back
on my
DVD player by putting them them on either a 700 MB CD-R or fit 6
episodes on
a single DVD. (This information may also be useful to people with DVD
recorders that also want to record Doctor Who.

I've been forced to go digital since I can no longer find and good
quality
video tapes in the shops.

For some reason or other when recording everytime I open a new folder
or
start an application such as Task Manager the encoder keeps dropping
frames
(1 or 3 normally, sometimes more), so I am wondering if this is because
of
Windows XP not prioritising things or because of the encoder of
VirtualDub-MPEG2. VirtualDub 1.7.x.x for some reason uses up more
system
resources then the Virtual-MPEG2 when recording. Or do I need a faster
processor (using 3.2 GHz P4 at 800 MHz FSB at the moment). Normally it
is
using 75-100% of the resources as measured by VirtualDub-MPEG2 or
38-50% as
measured by Windows XP Task Manager.

Do stand alone DVD recorder also suffer from losing frames and audio
sync
problems? Oh and that reminds me. The AC97 drivers for my built-in
Realtek
sound card are causing serious trouble syncing the audio. Sample rates
at
44.1 KHz won't sync with the video source even if I record the audio
stream
uncompressed, so I have to use 48 KHz, but even that isn't all that
good. If
I use the audio drivers that come with Total Recorder (which are
supposed to
be better, so it claims) then it's almost perfect.

Anyway the quality of VirtualDub-MPEG2 (freeware) using Xvid (also
freeware)
is 100 times better than WinDVR 3 which has audio sync problems which
are
even worse and causes the audio to wow and flutter and sometimes be
several
seconds out of sync, and which de-interlaces everything even if its not
interlaced which reduces the picture quality (and is the reason I don't
know
if episode 1 was progressive or not).

Oh and finally deoes anyone know if I can use VirtualDub to process out
PAL
fringes and other artefacts from recordings I've made, and if so how?
Are
there any plug-in's?

(Yes, I could record using an S-Video source but my Sony STB which says
it
has S-Video out on both SCART's will only let me use one of them unless
I
connect it up to a S-VHS video recorder which I don't have an no longer
exist. Are Sony ever going to sort this problem out?)



I don't know about Sky, but ITV4 on Freeview is a smaller frame size
than most of the other channels. I can't check right now because it's
off air, but it will probably be deinterlaced because of that.

Why don't you just buy a Freeview receiver for your computer, or
download Dr Who instead of all that messing about? It's all over the
internet within minutes of broadcast anyway.

An even better idea is to buy the official DVDs when they are released.

After hearing all the stories about manufacturing defects in almost every
BBC Doctor Who release including missing scenes, reversed phase stereo,
out of sync Dolby 5.1 and scenes from X-rated horror films included
instead of the original episodes I'm not touching the official DVD's. On
top of that how can they justify asking me to pay double the price of a
full season of a US show for the equivalent of half a season of a US
show, for a boxed set, in other words four times the price of a US DVD
boxed set, when they can't even be bothered to watch and listen to any of
their DVD masters and printed DVD's to check for errors and defects.

£15 for a 13 episode box set, (guaranteed defect free) is a reasonable
price that I would pay and save all the haste of recording it myself
considering a 26 episode season of a US show can be had for only £30.

How about a multi region DVD player, buying the Dr Who box set from the
good

Already got one, (well it said it was multiregion when I bought it but I've
never tested that yet).

old US of A and getting down the pub more.

There you go, with those words of wisdom I have single handed saved you a
small fortune, hours of F**king about recording and re-recording all that
mumbo jumbo stuff you're on about up above, and you will even get a life
by being down the pub.

Yer, and come back home with my clothes stinking of fag smoke and alcohol.


Seriously, try the pub, it's much more fun than faffing about with

I'd rather go to a club.

VirtualDub, and progressive or interlaced video.

I should go into business and help out all the poor anal video anoraks out
there.

Mel.

"Southpaw" wrote in message
. uk...

"Agamemnon" wrote in message
news


An even better idea is to buy the official DVDs when they are released.

After hearing all the stories about manufacturing defects in almost every
BBC Doctor Who release including missing scenes, reversed phase stereo,
out of sync Dolby 5.1 and scenes from X-rated horror films included
instead of the original episodes I'm not touching the official DVD's. On
top of that how can they justify asking me to pay double the price of a
full season of a US show for the equivalent of half a season of a US
show, for a boxed set, in other words four times the price of a US DVD
boxed set, when they can't even be bothered to watch and listen to any of
their DVD masters and printed DVD's to check for errors and defects.

£15 for a 13 episode box set, (guaranteed defect free) is a reasonable
price that I would pay and save all the haste of recording it myself
considering a 26 episode season of a US show can be had for only £30.

Still begs the question of why you would want to record, keep (and
presumably re-watch) the show anyway?

Yer, I know. It's not like its filled with good looking sexy totty like
Andromeda or Babylon 5, or Star Trek or most other US shows that have
straight producers. Oh and talking about RTD's pervesions, I read the
following about the Judoon. Is this where RTD got the idea from?


wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 1, 10:23 am, "Agamemnon" wrote:


- Show quoted text -

The Judoon, as all know, are a circle of nine Scots judge's who appear
out of the Highland mists but once every 100 years. They're tasked
with adjudicating claims of outrage against sheep by lowlanders.
Apparently, they then consume huge quantities of single malt and pass
out for a century. Now, after a bender like that, its natural enough
for them to wake up a lot hung over and a tad bit cranky. Litigants
are cautioned, therefore, that traditional bribes of gold and silver
are of little adi. However, a handy bottle of aspirin and a tumbler of
bloody marys are said to work wonders for a parties claim or defense.

McCabe

Agamemnon wrote:

There you go, with those words of wisdom I have single handed saved
you a small fortune, hours of F**king about recording and re-recording
all that mumbo jumbo stuff you're on about up above, and you will even
get a life by being down the pub.

Yer, and come back home with my clothes stinking of fag smoke and alcohol.

Well, the fag smoke ceases to be a problem after July 1st this year, as for
the alcohol, wear a bib ?


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

"Agamemnon" wrote in message
...
While I was editing the current episode of Andromeda on ITV4 in order to
test out my new AVI/DivX/Xvid capture and editing software
(VirtualDub-MPEG2
1.6.15) which I recorded using the Xvid real time Codec set to interlaced,
I
noticed that the episode seem to have been either deintelaced at source,
ie.
by the broadcaster, since there is no motion blur in any of the frames
where
you would expect them to be such as rapid arm or hand movements.

Now the question is was Andromeda originally filmed as progressive (this
is
a 4/3 ratio episode from series 3 so I about it has been converted from a
high definition 50p source) and is Doctor Who transmitted as progressive
ie.
every odd field is part of the same image as the even field or is it
interlaced? Also is it recorded as progressive?

I need to know this since I am planning to record it on Saturday and need
to
know how to set the Xvid encoder to get the best quality possible. The
DivX
codecs for some reason do not seem to appear in VirtualDub so I can't
record
with them, therefore in order to archive the recording I need to record
using Xvid (which I think uses less resources than DivX anyway from when I
tested it last year) then covert to DivX so I can play the files back on
my
DVD player by putting them them on either a 700 MB CD-R or fit 6 episodes
on
a single DVD. (This information may also be useful to people with DVD
recorders that also want to record Doctor Who.

I've been forced to go digital since I can no longer find and good quality
video tapes in the shops.

For some reason or other when recording everytime I open a new folder or
start an application such as Task Manager the encoder keeps dropping
frames
(1 or 3 normally, sometimes more), so I am wondering if this is because of
Windows XP not prioritising things or because of the encoder of
VirtualDub-MPEG2. VirtualDub 1.7.x.x for some reason uses up more system
resources then the Virtual-MPEG2 when recording. Or do I need a faster
processor (using 3.2 GHz P4 at 800 MHz FSB at the moment). Normally it is
using 75-100% of the resources as measured by VirtualDub-MPEG2 or 38-50%
as
measured by Windows XP Task Manager.

Do stand alone DVD recorder also suffer from losing frames and audio sync
problems? Oh and that reminds me. The AC97 drivers for my built-in Realtek
sound card are causing serious trouble syncing the audio. Sample rates at
44.1 KHz won't sync with the video source even if I record the audio
stream
uncompressed, so I have to use 48 KHz, but even that isn't all that good.
If
I use the audio drivers that come with Total Recorder (which are supposed
to
be better, so it claims) then it's almost perfect.

Anyway the quality of VirtualDub-MPEG2 (freeware) using Xvid (also
freeware)
is 100 times better than WinDVR 3 which has audio sync problems which are
even worse and causes the audio to wow and flutter and sometimes be
several
seconds out of sync, and which de-interlaces everything even if its not
interlaced which reduces the picture quality (and is the reason I don't
know
if episode 1 was progressive or not).

Oh and finally deoes anyone know if I can use VirtualDub to process out
PAL
fringes and other artefacts from recordings I've made, and if so how? Are
there any plug-in's?

(Yes, I could record using an S-Video source but my Sony STB which says it
has S-Video out on both SCART's will only let me use one of them unless I
connect it up to a S-VHS video recorder which I don't have an no longer
exist. Are Sony ever going to sort this problem out?)


Not sure if this will help Aggy. Have you got all of the "plugins" for
Virtual Dub installed? I don't appear to have any problems choosing any
particular codec. There are quite a few freebie plugins available but none I
know that will edit out artifacts. I use VD to record with but then use the
tools within TMPENG (The Motion Picture Encoder) to clean up the video as I
convert it to MPEG2. TMPENG has a plugin that converts all of the source
audio to a wav file before re-encoding. This takes away many synch problems
your likely to have.
Try this link below....it's very helpful for anyone capturing or converting
video. I managed to back convert many of my old VHS tapes to DVD using my
own version of the Vid-Fire method. The results took a long time but were
very good. Didn't bother converting any of the McCoy stories of course.

http://www.videohelp.com/capture


Baz

In article ,
Agamemnon wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Agamemnon wrote:
I've been forced to go digital since I can no longer find and good
quality video tapes in the shops.

Wouldn't it be easier to just get a Topfield or similar?

The Topfield does not have a DVD recorder and even if it had I am not
aware of any DVD recorders that record in DivX. The DVD+/-VR format is
completely useless amyway since it won't play back on my DVD player
whereas DivX will and it provides better quality and will let my put 6
episodes of Doctor Who on one single layered DVD at broadcast quality.

Why do you need a DVD recorder if you have a Topfield?

--
*If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Bazza" wrote in message
k...

"Agamemnon" wrote in message
...
While I was editing the current episode of Andromeda on ITV4 in order to
test out my new AVI/DivX/Xvid capture and editing software
(VirtualDub-MPEG2
1.6.15) which I recorded using the Xvid real time Codec set to
interlaced,
I
noticed that the episode seem to have been either deintelaced at source,
ie.
by the broadcaster, since there is no motion blur in any of the frames
where
you would expect them to be such as rapid arm or hand movements.

Now the question is was Andromeda originally filmed as progressive (this
is
a 4/3 ratio episode from series 3 so I about it has been converted from a
high definition 50p source) and is Doctor Who transmitted as progressive
ie.
every odd field is part of the same image as the even field or is it
interlaced? Also is it recorded as progressive?

I need to know this since I am planning to record it on Saturday and need
to
know how to set the Xvid encoder to get the best quality possible. The
DivX
codecs for some reason do not seem to appear in VirtualDub so I can't
record
with them, therefore in order to archive the recording I need to record
using Xvid (which I think uses less resources than DivX anyway from when
I
tested it last year) then covert to DivX so I can play the files back on
my
DVD player by putting them them on either a 700 MB CD-R or fit 6 episodes
on
a single DVD. (This information may also be useful to people with DVD
recorders that also want to record Doctor Who.

I've been forced to go digital since I can no longer find and good
quality
video tapes in the shops.

For some reason or other when recording everytime I open a new folder or
start an application such as Task Manager the encoder keeps dropping
frames
(1 or 3 normally, sometimes more), so I am wondering if this is because
of
Windows XP not prioritising things or because of the encoder of
VirtualDub-MPEG2. VirtualDub 1.7.x.x for some reason uses up more system
resources then the Virtual-MPEG2 when recording. Or do I need a faster
processor (using 3.2 GHz P4 at 800 MHz FSB at the moment). Normally it is
using 75-100% of the resources as measured by VirtualDub-MPEG2 or 38-50%
as
measured by Windows XP Task Manager.

Do stand alone DVD recorder also suffer from losing frames and audio sync
problems? Oh and that reminds me. The AC97 drivers for my built-in
Realtek
sound card are causing serious trouble syncing the audio. Sample rates at
44.1 KHz won't sync with the video source even if I record the audio
stream
uncompressed, so I have to use 48 KHz, but even that isn't all that good.
If
I use the audio drivers that come with Total Recorder (which are supposed
to
be better, so it claims) then it's almost perfect.

Anyway the quality of VirtualDub-MPEG2 (freeware) using Xvid (also
freeware)
is 100 times better than WinDVR 3 which has audio sync problems which are
even worse and causes the audio to wow and flutter and sometimes be
several
seconds out of sync, and which de-interlaces everything even if its not
interlaced which reduces the picture quality (and is the reason I don't
know
if episode 1 was progressive or not).

Oh and finally deoes anyone know if I can use VirtualDub to process out
PAL
fringes and other artefacts from recordings I've made, and if so how? Are
there any plug-in's?

(Yes, I could record using an S-Video source but my Sony STB which says
it
has S-Video out on both SCART's will only let me use one of them unless I
connect it up to a S-VHS video recorder which I don't have an no longer
exist. Are Sony ever going to sort this problem out?)


Not sure if this will help Aggy. Have you got all of the "plugins" for
Virtual Dub installed? I don't appear to have any problems choosing any

I've got all the default plugins. I can select the DivX encoder in the
editor and post-processing Video Compression options but not in the Capture
AVI video menu under Compression.

Also another problem I have with Virtual Dub is that every time I reboot the
video captue input defaults to 640x480 NTSC wherase my video card is being
fed with PAL I at 720x576 and since it won't save it as my defualt format in
Device settings I have to automatically keep reseting it after every reboot.
And on top of that it keeps automatically adjusting the gamma on overlay and
preview display which makes it look too bright and complete crap and the
only way I can get go back to default gamma is to switch to Microsoft
Default WDM Image Capture and then back to my capture device nVidia WDM
Video Capture (FX 5700 VIVO driver version 77.77. Driver versions above this
will not detect the capture device.)

particular codec. There are quite a few freebie plugins available but none
I
know that will edit out artifacts. I use VD to record with but then use
the
tools within TMPENG (The Motion Picture Encoder) to clean up the video as
I
convert it to MPEG2. TMPENG has a plugin that converts all of the source
audio to a wav file before re-encoding. This takes away many synch
problems
your likely to have.
Try this link below....it's very helpful for anyone capturing or
converting
video. I managed to back convert many of my old VHS tapes to DVD using my
own version of the Vid-Fire method. The results took a long time but were

VHS is recorded interlaced so why would you need Vid-Fire or is this a
different Vid-Fire method to the one used by the DW restoration team? Or are
you referring to the fact that you are capturing both fields in one image.
You don't need to do it that way. You can sample interlaced using the Xvid
codec and set it to Interlaced Encoding which you can go to by cliking on
"more" next to Profile @ Level in the Xvid configuration utility. If you try
to use the codec on an interlaced source without using this option it image
quality is total crap. Also make sure you use the Real-time option. If you
don't you'll need a very fast processor to avoid loosing frames.

very good. Didn't bother converting any of the McCoy stories of course.

http://www.videohelp.com/capture


Thanks. I've been there before but can't find anything on Nvidia captue
cards on it though.


Baz

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Agamemnon wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Agamemnon wrote:
I've been forced to go digital since I can no longer find and good
quality video tapes in the shops.

Wouldn't it be easier to just get a Topfield or similar?

The Topfield does not have a DVD recorder and even if it had I am not
aware of any DVD recorders that record in DivX. The DVD+/-VR format is
completely useless amyway since it won't play back on my DVD player
whereas DivX will and it provides better quality and will let my put 6
episodes of Doctor Who on one single layered DVD at broadcast quality.

Why do you need a DVD recorder if you have a Topfield?


What am I supposed to do when the HDD fills up and I want to keep something?

"Agamemnon" wrote in message
...

"Bazza" wrote in message
k...

"Agamemnon" wrote in message
...
While I was editing the current episode of Andromeda on ITV4 in order to
test out my new AVI/DivX/Xvid capture and editing software
(VirtualDub-MPEG2
1.6.15) which I recorded using the Xvid real time Codec set to
interlaced,
I
noticed that the episode seem to have been either deintelaced at source,
ie.
by the broadcaster, since there is no motion blur in any of the frames
where
you would expect them to be such as rapid arm or hand movements.

Now the question is was Andromeda originally filmed as progressive (this
is
a 4/3 ratio episode from series 3 so I about it has been converted from
a
high definition 50p source) and is Doctor Who transmitted as progressive
ie.
every odd field is part of the same image as the even field or is it
interlaced? Also is it recorded as progressive?

I need to know this since I am planning to record it on Saturday and
need
to
know how to set the Xvid encoder to get the best quality possible. The
DivX
codecs for some reason do not seem to appear in VirtualDub so I can't
record
with them, therefore in order to archive the recording I need to record
using Xvid (which I think uses less resources than DivX anyway from when
I
tested it last year) then covert to DivX so I can play the files back on
my
DVD player by putting them them on either a 700 MB CD-R or fit 6
episodes
on
a single DVD. (This information may also be useful to people with DVD
recorders that also want to record Doctor Who.

I've been forced to go digital since I can no longer find and good
quality
video tapes in the shops.

For some reason or other when recording everytime I open a new folder or
start an application such as Task Manager the encoder keeps dropping
frames
(1 or 3 normally, sometimes more), so I am wondering if this is because
of
Windows XP not prioritising things or because of the encoder of
VirtualDub-MPEG2. VirtualDub 1.7.x.x for some reason uses up more system
resources then the Virtual-MPEG2 when recording. Or do I need a faster
processor (using 3.2 GHz P4 at 800 MHz FSB at the moment). Normally it
is
using 75-100% of the resources as measured by VirtualDub-MPEG2 or 38-50%
as
measured by Windows XP Task Manager.

Do stand alone DVD recorder also suffer from losing frames and audio
sync
problems? Oh and that reminds me. The AC97 drivers for my built-in
Realtek
sound card are causing serious trouble syncing the audio. Sample rates
at
44.1 KHz won't sync with the video source even if I record the audio
stream
uncompressed, so I have to use 48 KHz, but even that isn't all that
good.
If
I use the audio drivers that come with Total Recorder (which are
supposed
to
be better, so it claims) then it's almost perfect.

Anyway the quality of VirtualDub-MPEG2 (freeware) using Xvid (also
freeware)
is 100 times better than WinDVR 3 which has audio sync problems which
are
even worse and causes the audio to wow and flutter and sometimes be
several
seconds out of sync, and which de-interlaces everything even if its not
interlaced which reduces the picture quality (and is the reason I don't
know
if episode 1 was progressive or not).

Oh and finally deoes anyone know if I can use VirtualDub to process out
PAL
fringes and other artefacts from recordings I've made, and if so how?
Are
there any plug-in's?

(Yes, I could record using an S-Video source but my Sony STB which says
it
has S-Video out on both SCART's will only let me use one of them unless
I
connect it up to a S-VHS video recorder which I don't have an no longer
exist. Are Sony ever going to sort this problem out?)


Not sure if this will help Aggy. Have you got all of the "plugins" for
Virtual Dub installed? I don't appear to have any problems choosing any

I've got all the default plugins. I can select the DivX encoder in the
editor and post-processing Video Compression options but not in the
Capture AVI video menu under Compression.

Also another problem I have with Virtual Dub is that every time I reboot
the video captue input defaults to 640x480 NTSC wherase my video card is
being fed with PAL I at 720x576 and since it won't save it as my defualt
format in Device settings I have to automatically keep reseting it after
every reboot. And on top of that it keeps automatically adjusting the
gamma on overlay and preview display which makes it look too bright and
complete crap and the only way I can get go back to default gamma is to
switch to Microsoft Default WDM Image Capture and then back to my capture
device nVidia WDM Video Capture (FX 5700 VIVO driver version 77.77. Driver
versions above this will not detect the capture device.)

particular codec. There are quite a few freebie plugins available but
none I
know that will edit out artifacts. I use VD to record with but then use
the
tools within TMPENG (The Motion Picture Encoder) to clean up the video as
I
convert it to MPEG2. TMPENG has a plugin that converts all of the source
audio to a wav file before re-encoding. This takes away many synch
problems
your likely to have.
Try this link below....it's very helpful for anyone capturing or
converting
video. I managed to back convert many of my old VHS tapes to DVD using my
own version of the Vid-Fire method. The results took a long time but were

VHS is recorded interlaced so why would you need Vid-Fire or is this a
different Vid-Fire method to the one used by the DW restoration team? Or
are you referring to the fact that you are capturing both fields in one
image. You don't need to do it that way. You can sample interlaced using
the Xvid codec and set it to Interlaced Encoding which you can go to by
cliking on "more" next to Profile @ Level in the Xvid configuration
utility. If you try to use the codec on an interlaced source without using
this option it image quality is total crap. Also make sure you use the
Real-time option. If you don't you'll need a very fast processor to avoid
loosing frames.

very good. Didn't bother converting any of the McCoy stories of course.

http://www.videohelp.com/capture


Thanks. I've been there before but can't find anything on Nvidia captue
cards on it though.


Baz

Agamemnon wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message

Why do you need a DVD recorder if you have a Topfield?


What am I supposed to do when the HDD fills up and I want to keep
something?

Transfer the file out of the Toppy via its USB port.

Anyway, why worry, BBC Three repeat Dr Who ad-infinitum.


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

I've been forced to go digital since I can no longer find and good
quality video tapes in the shops.

Wouldn't it be easier to just get a Topfield or similar?

The Topfield does not have a DVD recorder and even if it had I am not
aware of any DVD recorders that record in DivX. The DVD+/-VR format is
completely useless amyway since it won't play back on my DVD player
whereas DivX will and it provides better quality and will let my put 6
episodes of Doctor Who on one single layered DVD at broadcast quality.

Why would you want to record Dr Who? It's made by RTD and to date you've
hated every single episode.

As I told you before. Now that I have it as digital I can edit out all the
irrelevant soapy stuff and make the episodes much better.

I'm just curious, how long is each episode without the "soap"? Also,
how well does the episode progress? It seems like the episode would
jump around erratically if you removed the character scenes (i.e.
"soap").