Doctor Who progressive or interlaced? How to record it digitally.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Agamemnon wrote:
I've been forced to go digital since I can no longer find and good
quality video tapes in the shops.

Wouldn't it be easier to just get a Topfield or similar?

The Topfield does not have a DVD recorder and even if it had I am not aware
of any DVD recorders that record in DivX. The DVD+/-VR format is completely
useless amyway since it won't play back on my DVD player whereas DivX will
and it provides better quality and will let my put 6 episodes of Doctor Who
on one single layered DVD at broadcast quality.

"Agamemnon" wrote in message
. uk...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Agamemnon wrote:
I've been forced to go digital since I can no longer find and good
quality video tapes in the shops.

Wouldn't it be easier to just get a Topfield or similar?

The Topfield does not have a DVD recorder and even if it had I am not
aware of any DVD recorders that record in DivX. The DVD+/-VR format is
completely useless amyway since it won't play back on my DVD player
whereas DivX will and it provides better quality and will let my put 6
episodes of Doctor Who on one single layered DVD at broadcast quality.

Why would you want to record Dr Who? It's made by RTD and to date you've
hated every single episode.

"Stephen Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Edster" wrote in message
...
"Agamemnon" wrote in message

While I was editing the current episode of Andromeda on ITV4 in order to
test out my new AVI/DivX/Xvid capture and editing software
(VirtualDub-MPEG2
1.6.15) which I recorded using the Xvid real time Codec set to
interlaced, I
noticed that the episode seem to have been either deintelaced at source,
ie.
by the broadcaster, since there is no motion blur in any of the frames
where
you would expect them to be such as rapid arm or hand movements.

Now the question is was Andromeda originally filmed as progressive (this
is
a 4/3 ratio episode from series 3 so I about it has been converted from a
high definition 50p source) and is Doctor Who transmitted as progressive
ie.
every odd field is part of the same image as the even field or is it
interlaced? Also is it recorded as progressive?

I need to know this since I am planning to record it on Saturday and need
to
know how to set the Xvid encoder to get the best quality possible. The
DivX
codecs for some reason do not seem to appear in VirtualDub so I can't
record
with them, therefore in order to archive the recording I need to record
using Xvid (which I think uses less resources than DivX anyway from when
I
tested it last year) then covert to DivX so I can play the files back on
my
DVD player by putting them them on either a 700 MB CD-R or fit 6 episodes
on
a single DVD. (This information may also be useful to people with DVD
recorders that also want to record Doctor Who.

I've been forced to go digital since I can no longer find and good
quality
video tapes in the shops.

For some reason or other when recording everytime I open a new folder or
start an application such as Task Manager the encoder keeps dropping
frames
(1 or 3 normally, sometimes more), so I am wondering if this is because
of
Windows XP not prioritising things or because of the encoder of
VirtualDub-MPEG2. VirtualDub 1.7.x.x for some reason uses up more system
resources then the Virtual-MPEG2 when recording. Or do I need a faster
processor (using 3.2 GHz P4 at 800 MHz FSB at the moment). Normally it is
using 75-100% of the resources as measured by VirtualDub-MPEG2 or 38-50%
as
measured by Windows XP Task Manager.

Do stand alone DVD recorder also suffer from losing frames and audio sync
problems? Oh and that reminds me. The AC97 drivers for my built-in
Realtek
sound card are causing serious trouble syncing the audio. Sample rates at
44.1 KHz won't sync with the video source even if I record the audio
stream
uncompressed, so I have to use 48 KHz, but even that isn't all that good.
If
I use the audio drivers that come with Total Recorder (which are supposed
to
be better, so it claims) then it's almost perfect.

Anyway the quality of VirtualDub-MPEG2 (freeware) using Xvid (also
freeware)
is 100 times better than WinDVR 3 which has audio sync problems which are
even worse and causes the audio to wow and flutter and sometimes be
several
seconds out of sync, and which de-interlaces everything even if its not
interlaced which reduces the picture quality (and is the reason I don't
know
if episode 1 was progressive or not).

Oh and finally deoes anyone know if I can use VirtualDub to process out
PAL
fringes and other artefacts from recordings I've made, and if so how? Are
there any plug-in's?

(Yes, I could record using an S-Video source but my Sony STB which says
it
has S-Video out on both SCART's will only let me use one of them unless I
connect it up to a S-VHS video recorder which I don't have an no longer
exist. Are Sony ever going to sort this problem out?)



I don't know about Sky, but ITV4 on Freeview is a smaller frame size
than most of the other channels. I can't check right now because it's
off air, but it will probably be deinterlaced because of that.

Why don't you just buy a Freeview receiver for your computer, or
download Dr Who instead of all that messing about? It's all over the
internet within minutes of broadcast anyway.

An even better idea is to buy the official DVDs when they are released.

After hearing all the stories about manufacturing defects in almost every
BBC Doctor Who release including missing scenes, reversed phase stereo, out
of sync Dolby 5.1 and scenes from X-rated horror films included instead of
the original episodes I'm not touching the official DVD's. On top of that
how can they justify asking me to pay double the price of a full season of a
US show for the equivalent of half a season of a US show, for a boxed set,
in other words four times the price of a US DVD boxed set, when they can't
even be bothered to watch and listen to any of their DVD masters and printed
DVD's to check for errors and defects.

£15 for a 13 episode box set, (guaranteed defect free) is a reasonable price
that I would pay and save all the haste of recording it myself considering a
26 episode season of a US show can be had for only £30.

"mick" wrote in message
...

"Agamemnon" wrote in message
...
While I was editing the current episode of Andromeda on ITV4 in order to
test out my new AVI/DivX/Xvid capture and editing software
(VirtualDub-MPEG2
1.6.15) which I recorded using the Xvid real time Codec set to
interlaced,

For some reason or other when recording everytime I open a new folder or
start an application such as Task Manager the encoder keeps dropping
frames
(1 or 3 normally, sometimes more), so I am wondering if this is because
of
Windows XP not prioritising things or because of the encoder of
VirtualDub-MPEG2. VirtualDub 1.7.x.x for some reason uses up more system
resources then the Virtual-MPEG2 when recording. Or do I need a faster
processor (using 3.2 GHz P4 at 800 MHz FSB at the moment). Normally it is
using 75-100% of the resources as measured by VirtualDub-MPEG2 or 38-50%
as
measured by Windows XP Task Manager.

Disk access time man! you can't load a program into memory without reading
it from the hard drive. you can't have your head in two places at once if
your caputure buffer is full you're gonna drop data.

I don't think its Disk access since it does not drop frames when I simulate
recording an uncompressed video stream. Either my processor is being
overloaded or it is something to dow with Windows or the encoder/codec. If
its processor overload I doubt it would be very cost effective to build a
C2D system since these are barley 2 times faster than my existing system
whereas by Moore's Law they should have been 4 as fast by now (and half the
price too) since my system is exactly 3 years old this month.

"Steve Roberts" wrote in message
k...

"Agamemnon" wrote

Doctor Who transmitted as progressive ie. every odd field is part of the
same image as the even field or is it interlaced? Also is it recorded as
progressive?

DW is recorded interlaced at 50 fields per second, but digitally converted
to 25 frames per second. It is transmitted interlaced, but for your
purposes you can treat it as a progressive image, as both fields
ostensibly now originate at the same point in time. Having said that, the
end credits roller is probably 50 field interlaced, so if you record that
as progressive it will probably screw it up.

Thanks. I'll have to stick to recording it interlaced then and I'll see if I
can figure out a way of avoiding de-interlacing the 25 fps stuff while
de-interlacing the credits in Virtual Dub by masking the frames, but this is
going to slow down the conversion even when its not doing any extra
processing.


Sample rates at 44.1 KHz won't sync with the video source even if I
record the audio stream uncompressed, so I have to use 48 KHz, but even
that isn't all that good. If I use the audio drivers that come with Total
Recorder (which are supposed to be better, so it claims) then it's almost
perfect.

You should be using 48KHz for any video work. 44.1KHz is an audio CD
sample frequency, 48KHz is used in broadcasting and DVD.

Oh and finally deoes anyone know if I can use VirtualDub to process out
PAL fringes and other artefacts from recordings I've made, and if so how?
Are there any plug-in's?

It's a complete waste of time you going to all this trouble if you are
recording composite. As another poster has already pointed out, buy a
Topfield PVR and then you can record the Freeview MPEG stream directly and
extract it via USB2 into your PC.

Are Topfiled planning any new models. I don't want to buy one and end up
finding they've brought an new one out after I've bought it, and does it
have programme link?


Steve

"adric22" wrote in message
ps.com...
This is an interesting question. Since I live in the USA, my only way
to watch Dr.Who is by downloading the torrents off of the internet.
but I have noticed that the video appears to be progressive scan.
Either that, or whoever is encoding these things has a wicked de-
interlacer, of the likes I've never seen before. I've done a lot of
video capture in my time, along with encoding, and editing.. and I
have a pretty good eye for that kind of thing. And it sure looks to
me like Dr.Who is being broadcast as progressive.....

And I agree with what somebody else said.. If you are having so many
problems, why not just download it yourself? Somebody else has
already saved you the trouble of recording it and put it up on the
internet. I usually go to www.xtvi.com and do a search for Doctor Who.

What quality is it in. 720x576 or has it been scaled down?

"Agamemnon" wrote in message
news

"Stephen Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Edster" wrote in message
...
"Agamemnon" wrote in message

While I was editing the current episode of Andromeda on ITV4 in order to
test out my new AVI/DivX/Xvid capture and editing software
(VirtualDub-MPEG2
1.6.15) which I recorded using the Xvid real time Codec set to
interlaced, I
noticed that the episode seem to have been either deintelaced at source,
ie.
by the broadcaster, since there is no motion blur in any of the frames
where
you would expect them to be such as rapid arm or hand movements.

Now the question is was Andromeda originally filmed as progressive (this
is
a 4/3 ratio episode from series 3 so I about it has been converted from
a
high definition 50p source) and is Doctor Who transmitted as progressive
ie.
every odd field is part of the same image as the even field or is it
interlaced? Also is it recorded as progressive?

I need to know this since I am planning to record it on Saturday and
need to
know how to set the Xvid encoder to get the best quality possible. The
DivX
codecs for some reason do not seem to appear in VirtualDub so I can't
record
with them, therefore in order to archive the recording I need to record
using Xvid (which I think uses less resources than DivX anyway from when
I
tested it last year) then covert to DivX so I can play the files back on
my
DVD player by putting them them on either a 700 MB CD-R or fit 6
episodes on
a single DVD. (This information may also be useful to people with DVD
recorders that also want to record Doctor Who.

I've been forced to go digital since I can no longer find and good
quality
video tapes in the shops.

For some reason or other when recording everytime I open a new folder or
start an application such as Task Manager the encoder keeps dropping
frames
(1 or 3 normally, sometimes more), so I am wondering if this is because
of
Windows XP not prioritising things or because of the encoder of
VirtualDub-MPEG2. VirtualDub 1.7.x.x for some reason uses up more system
resources then the Virtual-MPEG2 when recording. Or do I need a faster
processor (using 3.2 GHz P4 at 800 MHz FSB at the moment). Normally it
is
using 75-100% of the resources as measured by VirtualDub-MPEG2 or 38-50%
as
measured by Windows XP Task Manager.

Do stand alone DVD recorder also suffer from losing frames and audio
sync
problems? Oh and that reminds me. The AC97 drivers for my built-in
Realtek
sound card are causing serious trouble syncing the audio. Sample rates
at
44.1 KHz won't sync with the video source even if I record the audio
stream
uncompressed, so I have to use 48 KHz, but even that isn't all that
good. If
I use the audio drivers that come with Total Recorder (which are
supposed to
be better, so it claims) then it's almost perfect.

Anyway the quality of VirtualDub-MPEG2 (freeware) using Xvid (also
freeware)
is 100 times better than WinDVR 3 which has audio sync problems which
are
even worse and causes the audio to wow and flutter and sometimes be
several
seconds out of sync, and which de-interlaces everything even if its not
interlaced which reduces the picture quality (and is the reason I don't
know
if episode 1 was progressive or not).

Oh and finally deoes anyone know if I can use VirtualDub to process out
PAL
fringes and other artefacts from recordings I've made, and if so how?
Are
there any plug-in's?

(Yes, I could record using an S-Video source but my Sony STB which says
it
has S-Video out on both SCART's will only let me use one of them unless
I
connect it up to a S-VHS video recorder which I don't have an no longer
exist. Are Sony ever going to sort this problem out?)



I don't know about Sky, but ITV4 on Freeview is a smaller frame size
than most of the other channels. I can't check right now because it's
off air, but it will probably be deinterlaced because of that.

Why don't you just buy a Freeview receiver for your computer, or
download Dr Who instead of all that messing about? It's all over the
internet within minutes of broadcast anyway.

An even better idea is to buy the official DVDs when they are released.

After hearing all the stories about manufacturing defects in almost every
BBC Doctor Who release including missing scenes, reversed phase stereo,
out of sync Dolby 5.1 and scenes from X-rated horror films included
instead of the original episodes I'm not touching the official DVD's. On
top of that how can they justify asking me to pay double the price of a
full season of a US show for the equivalent of half a season of a US show,
for a boxed set, in other words four times the price of a US DVD boxed
set, when they can't even be bothered to watch and listen to any of their
DVD masters and printed DVD's to check for errors and defects.

£15 for a 13 episode box set, (guaranteed defect free) is a reasonable
price that I would pay and save all the haste of recording it myself
considering a 26 episode season of a US show can be had for only £30.

How about a multi region DVD player, buying the Dr Who box set from the good
old US of A and getting down the pub more.

There you go, with those words of wisdom I have single handed saved you a
small fortune, hours of F**king about recording and re-recording all that
mumbo jumbo stuff you're on about up above, and you will even get a life by
being down the pub.

Seriously, try the pub, it's much more fun than faffing about with
VirtualDub, and progressive or interlaced video.

I should go into business and help out all the poor anal video anoraks out
there.

Mel.

"Stephen Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Agamemnon" wrote in message
. uk...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Agamemnon wrote:
I've been forced to go digital since I can no longer find and good
quality video tapes in the shops.

Wouldn't it be easier to just get a Topfield or similar?

The Topfield does not have a DVD recorder and even if it had I am not
aware of any DVD recorders that record in DivX. The DVD+/-VR format is
completely useless amyway since it won't play back on my DVD player
whereas DivX will and it provides better quality and will let my put 6
episodes of Doctor Who on one single layered DVD at broadcast quality.

Why would you want to record Dr Who? It's made by RTD and to date you've
hated every single episode.

As I told you before. Now that I have it as digital I can edit out all the
irrelevant soapy stuff and make the episodes much better.

"Agamemnon" wrote in message
news


An even better idea is to buy the official DVDs when they are released.

After hearing all the stories about manufacturing defects in almost every
BBC Doctor Who release including missing scenes, reversed phase stereo,
out of sync Dolby 5.1 and scenes from X-rated horror films included
instead of the original episodes I'm not touching the official DVD's. On
top of that how can they justify asking me to pay double the price of a
full season of a US show for the equivalent of half a season of a US show,
for a boxed set, in other words four times the price of a US DVD boxed
set, when they can't even be bothered to watch and listen to any of their
DVD masters and printed DVD's to check for errors and defects.

£15 for a 13 episode box set, (guaranteed defect free) is a reasonable
price that I would pay and save all the haste of recording it myself
considering a 26 episode season of a US show can be had for only £30.

Still begs the question of why you would want to record, keep (and
presumably re-watch) the show anyway?

Agamemnon wrote:

and will let me put 6
episodes of Doctor Who on one single layered DVD at broadcast quality.

Broadcast Quality, that's nothing to shout about these days. I prefer DVD quality.


--
Mark
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