TiVo hacked for free TV listings?

If you bought a Gillette Razor that "REQUIRED" using Gillette blades
and wouldn't work until you signed up with Gillette first, AGREED to a
specific usage model and THEN cancelled that contract and used generic
blades, it would be the similar issue.

When you buy a TiVo, it won't work until you agree to use their
service and keep said service paid for or buy lifetime service (in the
past). When you buy a cell phone or get a freebie cell phone from
Verizon, you agree to use their service for 2 years. If you cancel,
you pay a penalty fee to recoup the cost of the phone and service you
aren't using.

So, sure, you can hack the phone and use a freebie service AND pay
your verizon bill for no usage and you aren't breaking the contract.
But, to hack the phone to use the freebie service without following
thru with the contract is not right.


On Feb 23, 6:56 pm, "Dr. Personality" wrote:
In article . com,



Nfuego wrote:
On Feb 2, 5:20 pm, "bob" wrote:
On Feb 2, 2:49 pm, SINNER wrote:

* bob wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

I just ordered a TiVo which should arrive in a few days. I looked
over the alternatives (mainly PC or Mac + tuner + freeware) but for
simplicity and quick starting went with TiVo.

The TiVo box is attractive for its relatively low power consumption
and profile compared to a PC. However with TiVo one must pay the
subscription, so I was wondering...is it possible to hack TiVo to use
a free TV listing?
Because it is STEALING

Is it? If I've bought TiVo's hardware, then simply replace their
software with my own, what am I stealing?
Voiding their warranty, no doubt. But copyright stealing involves
using someone's copyrighted material against their wishes.

Myself, I bought 3 years of prepaid service to get the cheapest rate.
By the time that expires I'll have switched from SD to HD and want to
upgrade my entire TV/"media" system. So for me, my original question
was intellectual. Does anything really prevent replacing their
software with alternate software which allows use of the free TV
listings?

BTW, how are the free listings supported?

The "Stealing" would be similar to you "buying" a cell phone from
Verizon and hacking it to use a different-free-service.

You seriously don't think the phone you got from Verizon for $10,
really only has a Retail price of $10 do you? No. Even a generic
cordless landline phone costs more than that. They make up the loss
by signing you to a contract for services rendered (your 2 year phone
service agreement).

Same with TiVo. A TiVo retails for more than the "free" or $50 price
tag you paid. They make that up with your contract for service.

If he owns the TiVo, it's not stealing. If he owns the cell phone,
it's not stealing. It is not stealing if a customer merely fails to
follow the vendor's business model.

To steal something, somebody has to break a law. Please tell us which
law is broken if I buy a Gillette razor but use off-brand blades in it.

If you bought a Gillette Razor that "REQUIRED" using Gillette blades
and wouldn't work until you signed up with Gillette first, AGREED to a
specific usage model and THEN cancelled that contract and used generic
blades, it would be the similar issue.

No, it wouldn't. In this case, you don't get the Razor until you
signed a contract.

When you buy a TiVo, it won't work until you agree to use their
service and keep said service paid for or buy lifetime service (in the
past).

Notice how you get the TiVo BEFORE you agree to service, and there's
no guarantee you will even be told that it needs service before you
buy it? No, putting it an obscure location on the outside of the
box doesn't count. When I bought my TiVo, nobody told me it required
service (Ok, I knew anyway, but not everyone does). TiVo, if you
want to insist I buy service, make me sign a contract before giving
me the TiVo.

TiVo's business plan is not a law. If I want to buy a TiVo at a
subsidized price, then use it for smashing off-brand roaches, that's
perfectly legal. Doing the same with a cell phone is not, since I
have to sign a contract before I get the phone.

Oh, yes, TiVo does sell a service supplying the guide data. If you
get this info *FROM TiVo* without paying for it (and not something
offered by TiVo free, like TiVo Basic with some units), that's theft
of service.

Now, I happen to think TiVo's guide data service is worth paying for, and
I have a lifetime subscription. Not everyone will agree with me.

When you buy a cell phone or get a freebie cell phone from
Verizon, you agree to use their service for 2 years.

Yep, notice how you agree BEFORE you get the phone?

If you cancel,
you pay a penalty fee to recoup the cost of the phone and service you
aren't using.

Which is in the contract you SIGNED.

So, sure, you can hack the phone and use a freebie service AND pay
your verizon bill for no usage and you aren't breaking the contract.
But, to hack the phone to use the freebie service without following
thru with the contract is not right.

And right after you buy a TiVo, you have a TiVo and *no contract*.
It's really easy to follow through on no contract.

On 2007-03-20, Nfuego wrote:
If you bought a Gillette Razor that "REQUIRED" using Gillette blades
and wouldn't work until you signed up with Gillette first, AGREED to a
specific usage model and THEN cancelled that contract and used generic
blades, it would be the similar issue.

When you buy a TiVo, it won't work until you agree to use their
service and keep said service paid for or buy lifetime service (in the

...which nullifies the contract from any reasonable ethical
standpoint. It might also undermine such contracts on a legal basis.
There's plenty of grey to go around.

past). When you buy a cell phone or get a freebie cell phone from
Verizon, you agree to use their service for 2 years. If you cancel,
you pay a penalty fee to recoup the cost of the phone and service you
aren't using.

If you can only buy a Tivo under restrictions of those
sort these days then it's a good time to stop buying.

[deletia]

--

If you need to kick-ban someone for a mildly stated |||
opposing viewpoint, you are a weenie & not a lion. / | \


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* Gordon Burditt wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

When I bought my TiVo, nobody told me it required
service (Ok, I knew anyway, but not everyone does).

How is this different from going into best buy and getting a land line
cordless phone? You can use the phone to smash roaches but if you want to
use it as it was meant to be used, you have to obtain service from a phone
company and I dont recall seeing that on the box either. I mean, its
cordless right? Why cant I just plug in the base to a wall outlet and make
it work?

Life sometimes requires forethought or research, simply walking around like
a lemming gets you in trouble occasionaly.

--
David

In article , SINNER
wrote:

* Gordon Burditt wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

When I bought my TiVo, nobody told me it required
service (Ok, I knew anyway, but not everyone does).

How is this different from going into best buy and getting a land line
cordless phone? You can use the phone to smash roaches but if you want to
use it as it was meant to be used, you have to obtain service from a phone
company and I dont recall seeing that on the box either. I mean, its
cordless right? Why cant I just plug in the base to a wall outlet and make
it work?

Life sometimes requires forethought or research, simply walking around like
a lemming gets you in trouble occasionaly.


How it's different: People are used to paying for phone service. They
assume that they will have to do so. People don't necessarily assume
at first blush that TiVos incur ongoing costs. After all, their VCRs
don't.

* Dr. Personality wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

In article , SINNER
wrote:

* Gordon Burditt wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

When I bought my TiVo, nobody told me it required
service (Ok, I knew anyway, but not everyone does).

How is this different from going into best buy and getting a land
line cordless phone? You can use the phone to smash roaches but if
you want to use it as it was meant to be used, you have to obtain
service from a phone company and I dont recall seeing that on the box
either. I mean, its cordless right? Why cant I just plug in the base
to a wall outlet and make it work?

Life sometimes requires forethought or research, simply walking
around like a lemming gets you in trouble occasionaly.


How it's different: People are used to paying for phone service. They
assume that they will have to do so. People don't necessarily assume
at first blush that TiVos incur ongoing costs. After all, their VCRs
don't.


Gotta learn sometime. People are used to it? Surely not EVERYONE is used
to it, I mean there is some person out there that has never paid a phone
a bill that will eventually go out and buy a phone right?

I can go buy a 'pay as you' go Cell phone off the shelf in Target. It
might not say pay as you go in big bold letters and there is no contract
but I'll be damed if I can make a call on it. Somewhere on the packaging
in some really small print I am sure it says what is required, but who
reads all that print standing in the store?

There are lots of things in this world that require other things that are
sold separately to make them work, be that a service or some other not
included in the package thing. Evey ad says service is required (for
Tivo), you chose not to read it, you get it home, it doesnt work, you
make a decision at that time and have 30 days to bring it back. Bad
taste, call Comcast and use theirs. Cancel Comcast and see if the DVR
still works...

--
David

In article , Dr. Personality wrote:
In article , SINNER
wrote:

* Gordon Burditt wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

When I bought my TiVo, nobody told me it required
service (Ok, I knew anyway, but not everyone does).

How is this different from going into best buy and getting a land line
cordless phone? You can use the phone to smash roaches but if you want to
use it as it was meant to be used, you have to obtain service from a phone
company and I dont recall seeing that on the box either. I mean, its
cordless right? Why cant I just plug in the base to a wall outlet and make
it work?

Life sometimes requires forethought or research, simply walking around like
a lemming gets you in trouble occasionaly.


How it's different: People are used to paying for phone service. They
assume that they will have to do so. People don't necessarily assume
at first blush that TiVos incur ongoing costs. After all, their VCRs
don't.


This is the very reason Tivo offfers a 30 money back guarantee if you dont
agree to the service or even after having the service, you decide to not keep
the unit anymore.