Picture-in-picture. Do you want it?

To me, PIP is a very desirable feature. Am I in the minority? I'm
finding that only about 40% of the HD sets have it. When I bought my
first HD set last summer, even fewer had it. Is it because most
people don't care? I'm estimating that another tuner would add $30-50
to the cost. I'm willing to pay it. Are you?

I'd be willing to pay an extra $200 and have them add 3 extra tuners:
One for the channel-up, one for channel-down, and one for PIP.
Because only changed pixels are transmitted, unchanged pixels are not
updated all that often. For this reason, the tuner may take upwards
of two seconds to assemble a complete picture and change the channel.
If the TV had 3 or four pictures already assembled and ready to
display, changing channels would be instantaneous.

OK, here's a channel-surfer's dream: Four tuners, each displaying one
quarter of the screen on a 50" plasma. When a program interest's you,
make that channel full screen. My God, you could watch four football
games at the same time. I wouldn't, but you could.

NadCixelsyd wrote:
To me, PIP is a very desirable feature. Am I in the minority? I'm
finding that only about 40% of the HD sets have it. When I bought my
first HD set last summer, even fewer had it. Is it because most
people don't care? I'm estimating that another tuner would add $30-50
to the cost. I'm willing to pay it. Are you?

I'd be willing to pay an extra $200 and have them add 3 extra tuners:
One for the channel-up, one for channel-down, and one for PIP.
Because only changed pixels are transmitted, unchanged pixels are not
updated all that often. For this reason, the tuner may take upwards
of two seconds to assemble a complete picture and change the channel.
If the TV had 3 or four pictures already assembled and ready to
display, changing channels would be instantaneous.

OK, here's a channel-surfer's dream: Four tuners, each displaying one
quarter of the screen on a 50" plasma. When a program interest's you,
make that channel full screen. My God, you could watch four football
games at the same time. I wouldn't, but you could.

Yes nice feature if it does what you want it to do. I had an older
projection TV years ago and PIP was great. The small picture audio was out
put to the front ear phone jack and I could do all kinds of things with it.
That was when VCRs were at there peak, so using PIP I could FF to where I
wanted to start viewing.... The next TV I bought had PIP but you couldn't
use it with DVD. so FF and other options weren't allowed, like cueing to the
start of the movie and pausing etc....so for me the functionality of PIP has
lost its luster. YMMV?

Rich

On 8 Mar 2007 19:07:45 -0800, "NadCixelsyd"
wrote:

To me, PIP is a very desirable feature. Am I in the minority?

I can only speak for me.
I don't have use for PIP, but like you I wonder if I'm in minority
asking for better EPG (Electronic Program Giude) support.
I know that the support and methods vary with location (around the
world and between networks) but here in Sweeden it is half-way-there
but still the detailed program information covers only 10 or so hours
into the future.
....
I'd be willing to pay an extra $200 and have them add 3 extra tuners:
....
... changing channels would be instantaneous.

Channel change in 2-3 seconds is OK by me. Let's say that longer than
5 seconds is too long.

OK, here's a channel-surfer's dream: Four tuners, each displaying one
quarter of the screen on a 50" plasma. When a program interest's you,
make that channel full screen. My God, you could watch four football
games at the same time. I wouldn't, but you could.

Instead trying to find an interesting program by swapping, I read from
the EPG and plan ahead.
I think that if you just swap around until you find something of
interest, on average, when you finally find it you will have mist half
of that interesting program.

For me a second tuner would be better used to constantly download all
EPG data fully in the background and automatically. (And with better
data coverage and better search/filter functions implemented in the
display function.)
/Jan

On 8 Mar 2007 19:07:45 -0800, "NadCixelsyd"
wrote:

To me, PIP is a very desirable feature. Am I in the minority?

I can only speak for me.
I don't have use for PIP, but like you I wonder if I'm in minority
asking for better EPG (Electronic Program Guide) support.
I know that the support and methods vary with location (around the
world and between networks) but here in Sweden it is half-way-there
but still the detailed program information covers only 10 or so hours
into the future.
....
I'd be willing to pay an extra $200 and have them add 3 extra tuners:
....
... changing channels would be instantaneous.

Channel change in 2-3 seconds is OK by me. Let's say that longer than
5 seconds is too long.

OK, here's a channel-surfer's dream: Four tuners, each displaying one
quarter of the screen on a 50" plasma. When a program interest's you,
make that channel full screen. My God, you could watch four football
games at the same time. I wouldn't, but you could.

Instead trying to find an interesting program by swapping, I read from
the EPG and plan ahead.
I think that if you just swap around until you find something of
interest, on average, when you finally find it you will have missed
half of that interesting program.

For me a second tuner would be better used to constantly download all
EPG data fully in the background and automatically. (And with better
data coverage and better search/filter functions implemented in the
display function.)
/Jan

On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 19:07:45 -0800, NadCixelsyd wrote:

To me, PIP is a very desirable feature. Am I in the minority?

Don't know, but I have it on all my TV's (using MythTV) and never use it.
Of course I never watch live TV either. I record everything I watch.

I'm estimating that another tuner would add $30-50 to the cost. I'm
willing to pay it. Are you?

An extra tuner would only cost about $5. I don't need it, so I wouldn't
evne pay that for it.:-)

I'd be willing to pay an extra $200 and have them add 3 extra tuners:

Why not just add your own then. I've got 5 tuners in my MythTV system. I
can also record 5 HDTV programs at once with it. That why I don't need or
care about PIP.:-)

OK, here's a channel-surfer's dream: Four tuners, each displaying one
quarter of the screen on a 50" plasma. When a program interest's you,
make that channel full screen. My God, you could watch four football
games at the same time. I wouldn't, but you could.

I watch recorded TV pretty fast, but trying to focus on more than 1 show
at a time is not my idea of enjoyment.:-)

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

Stop with the $5.00 crap for a DTV tuner. They don't exist - not even on
eBay! (You must have bought 'em all!)

SoCalCommie

"Behind every great fortune is a crime." - Honore de Balzac

"Wes Newell" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 19:07:45 -0800, NadCixelsyd wrote:

To me, PIP is a very desirable feature. Am I in the minority?

Don't know, but I have it on all my TV's (using MythTV) and never use it.
Of course I never watch live TV either. I record everything I watch.

I'm estimating that another tuner would add $30-50 to the cost. I'm
willing to pay it. Are you?

An extra tuner would only cost about $5. I don't need it, so I wouldn't
evne pay that for it.:-)

I'd be willing to pay an extra $200 and have them add 3 extra tuners:

Why not just add your own then. I've got 5 tuners in my MythTV system. I
can also record 5 HDTV programs at once with it. That why I don't need or
care about PIP.:-)

OK, here's a channel-surfer's dream: Four tuners, each displaying one
quarter of the screen on a 50" plasma. When a program interest's you,
make that channel full screen. My God, you could watch four football
games at the same time. I wouldn't, but you could.

I watch recorded TV pretty fast, but trying to focus on more than 1 show
at a time is not my idea of enjoyment.:-)

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

On Mar 9, 4:15 am, "SoCalCommie" wrote:
Stop with the $5.00 crap for a DTV tuner. They don't exist - not even on
eBay! (You must have bought 'em all!)

SoCalCommie


They used to exist... until Wes told the whole world about them! One
just went for $22.50 shipped (too bad I missed that one)

On Mar 8, 9:07 pm, "NadCixelsyd" wrote:
To me, PIP is a very desirable feature. Am I in the minority? I'm
finding that only about 40% of the HD sets have it. When I bought my
first HD set last summer, even fewer had it. Is it because most
people don't care? I'm estimating that another tuner would add $30-50
to the cost. I'm willing to pay it. Are you?

I'd be willing to pay an extra $200 and have them add 3 extra tuners:
One for the channel-up, one for channel-down, and one for PIP.
Because only changed pixels are transmitted, unchanged pixels are not
updated all that often. For this reason, the tuner may take upwards
of two seconds to assemble a complete picture and change the channel.
If the TV had 3 or four pictures already assembled and ready to
display, changing channels would be instantaneous.

OK, here's a channel-surfer's dream: Four tuners, each displaying one
quarter of the screen on a 50" plasma. When a program interest's you,
make that channel full screen. My God, you could watch four football
games at the same time. I wouldn't, but you could.

I remember when PIP was the "hot" new thing and ya' had to have it.
That's going back quite a while now. But I can't remember the last
time I actually used it. I'm thinking perhaps during March Madness or
on a Saturday afternoon for college football so you can always watch a
game and never bother with a commercial its useful.

My dad used to like to use it to see if there was "something better"
on at the same time. But really there's a TV guide for that.

But now most TVs get their signal from a cable box, so there's no
"splitting" the signal, which means PIP might be useless for live TV
for those people.

My Vizio has PIP, but, its a little weird. You can't PIP against all
the inputs. For example, it has eight inputs (2xHDMI, 2xComposite,
2xSvideo/AV, VGA, and RF in) and RF in can PIP against only some of
those inputs. It bugged me a bit until I realized I was probably
never going to use it.

On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 10:15:07 +0000, SoCalCommie wrote:

Stop with the $5.00 crap for a DTV tuner. They don't exist - not even on
eBay! (You must have bought 'em all!)

You frickin top posting moron, he's not talking about PCI or STB tuners.
He's talking about a second tuner in the TV. They actually cost less than
$5 each. More like $3 each in quanty of 1000. now crawl back in your hole,
peek your head out and watch and learn something. If you want to be a know
it all, you should at least know something. BTW, there is a license fee
for ATSC, but I think that would cover multiple tuners in a device. No, I
don't know for sure, but even if a fee is required per tuner, I recall it
being about $6.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 06:25:51 -0800, mogator88 wrote:

On Mar 9, 4:15 am, "SoCalCommie" wrote:
Stop with the $5.00 crap for a DTV tuner. They don't exist - not even on
eBay! (You must have bought 'em all!)

SoCalCommie


They used to exist... until Wes told the whole world about them! One
just went for $22.50 shipped (too bad I missed that one)

We were talking about tuners *in* the TV for PIP. I've never won one of
the PC tuners for $5. $17.50 was the lowest. Got another for $18.64. I
bought 6 and don't need any more.;-)

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm