do I need a surge protector?

Just bought a Samsung 46" HDTV at Circuit City. They tried to talk me
into a very expensive surge protector. They also said I MUST have a
Monster HDMI cable for $125 which I later found out was bull. So I
decided to wait on their surge protector and ask you guys out there
for advice.

Do I need it? What brand is best? I have a really good one for my
computer but it's paid for by my company. I also have a Liebert which
costs about $30 but I believe is meant mostly for computers, or are
they generic?

This is the first non-conventional TV I've had and it cost enough so
that I'd like to protect it if it's necessary. I'm willing to spend
whatever I should but don't want to spend more than I have to. I know
that nothing will protect me from a direct lightening hit, but we do
get lots of power blips around here.

Advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

On 23 Feb 2007 18:18:13 -0800, Jane wrote:

Just bought a Samsung 46" HDTV at Circuit City. They tried to talk me
into a very expensive surge protector. They also said I MUST have a
Monster HDMI cable for $125 which I later found out was bull. So I
decided to wait on their surge protector and ask you guys out there
for advice.

Do I need it? What brand is best? I have a really good one for my
computer but it's paid for by my company. I also have a Liebert which
costs about $30 but I believe is meant mostly for computers, or are
they generic?

This is the first non-conventional TV I've had and it cost enough so
that I'd like to protect it if it's necessary. I'm willing to spend
whatever I should but don't want to spend more than I have to. I know
that nothing will protect me from a direct lightening hit, but we do
get lots of power blips around here.

Advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Don't trust the Circuit City guy--he probably works on commission.
Monster cables are unnecessary. I use regular cables and they work
great.

You can find good surge suppressors for under $20 at www.newegg.com,
or comparison shop at www.pricegrabber.com. I tend to buy Belkin and
Tripp Lite products, but any brand names are good.

Take a three dollar power strip. Add some ten cent components.
Sell it as a surge protector for $25 or $125 dollars. How's that for
a profit margin - or why the hard sell.

All electronics contain protection that would be effective on its
power cord. Those promoting power strips hope you don't learn this
and a few other important facts. That internal appliance protection
may be overwhelmed by surges that enter on AC mains. Therefore earth
a 'whole house' protector at the service entrance. Protector is for
an entire house at about $1 per protected appliance. Effective
protection earths before surges enter a building. Did they forget to
mention that at Circuit City? Why?

Who sells effective solutions? Notice names of responsible and
highly regarded manufacturers such as Siemens, Square D, Cutler
Hammer, GE, Leviton, and Intermatic. These effective solutions are
sold in Lowes, Home Depot, and electrical supply houses. Never saw an
effective protector sold in Circuit City, Radio Shack, Sears, Staples,
Best Buy, Bed Bath & Beyond, or the grocery store. And yet those
products also claim to do what a $125 Monster Cable product claims.

The principles are simple. Demonstrated even by Franklin in 1752.
Lightning seeks earth ground. Either it does so destructively via a
television, OR it is earthed before entering the building. Does a
protector stop, block, or absorb what three miles of conductive sky
could not stop? That is what Monster Cable and other plug-in
protectors claim. There silly little box with stop what three miles
of sky could not. Meanwhile standards from responsible organizations
such IEEE state that earthing provides the protection.

How to identify an ineffective protector ... two simple rules: 1)
It has no dedicated earthing wire and 2) manufacturer avoids all
discussion about earthing. That Monster Cable product violates both
rules.

Install 'whole house' protector on AC electric. Also upgrade AC
electric earthing to meet and exceed post 1990 National Electrical
Code requirements. A protector is not protection. What did Franklin
demonstrate in 1752? Protection is effective because the surge is
earthed. Earthing is the protection - or what that Circuit City
salesman and so many others hope you do not learn. Why are 'whole
house' protectors (such as the one installed for free on your phone
line by the telco) so effective? That short ('less than 10 foot')
connection to earth. Distance to earth is important which is why
earthing must meet post 1990 code. No earth ground means no effective
protection - even if selling for $125.

BTW, why do we install protectors? For protection from direct
lightning strikes. Notice that your phone company with a $multi-
million computer connected to overhead wires all over town also
shutdown phone service during T-storms. Oh-hh? They don't. Why?
Because they also use the simple concept of earthing a 'whole house'
protector; every incoming wire connects to earth via a protector.
Telco wires can suffer as much as 100 strikes over 5 months. Why do
they not suffer damage? Because protection from direct lightning
strikes is that routine.

All electronic appliances contain any protection that would make
power blips irrelevant. Notice how often your smoke detectors are
destroyed. That was even required by industry standards 30 years ago.
But we install protector to earth direct lightning strikes before that
surge can enter the building. No earth ground means no effective
protection. We install protectors to make even lightning surges
irrelevant - even for $1 per protected appliance.

On Feb 23, 9:18 pm, "Jane" wrote:
Just bought a Samsung 46" HDTV at Circuit City. They tried to talk me
into a very expensivesurgeprotector. They also said I MUST have a
Monster HDMI cable for $125 which I later found out was bull. So I
decided to wait on theirsurgeprotector and ask you guys out there
for advice.

Do I need it? What brand is best? I have a really good one for my
computer but it's paid for by my company. I also have a Liebert which
costs about $30 but I believe is meant mostly for computers, or are
they generic?

This is the first non-conventional TV I've had and it cost enough so
that I'd like to protect it if it's necessary. I'm willing to spend
whatever I should but don't want to spend more than I have to. I know
that nothing will protect me from a direct lightening hit, but we do
get lots of power blips around here.

On Feb 24, 12:13 am, "w_tom" wrote:

For reliable information on surges an surge suppression try:
http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/Li...ion_May051.pdf
- the title is "How to protect your house and its contents from
lightning: IEEE guide for surge protection of equipment connected to
AC power and communication circuits" published by the IEEE in 2005
(the IEEE is the dominant organization of electrical and electronic
engineers in the US).

And
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/p.../surgesfnl.pdf
- this is the "NIST recommended practice guide: Surges Happen!: how to
protect the appliances in your home" published by the National
Institute of Standards and Technology (the US government agency
formerly called the National Bureau of Standards) in 2001

Both guides were intended for wide distribution to the general public
to explain surges and how to protect against them. The IEEE guide was
targeted at people who have some (not much) technical background.


The principles are simple. Demonstrated even by Franklin in 1752.
Lightning seeks earth ground. Either it does so destructively via a
television, OR it is earthed before entering the building. Does a
protector stop, block, or absorb what three miles of conductive sky
could not stop? That is what Monster Cable and other plug-in
protectors claim. There silly little box with stop what three miles
of sky could not.
Rubbish.

Both the IEEE and NIST guides say plug-in suppressors are effective.

As explained in the IEEE guide, plug-in suppressors work by CLAMPING
the voltage on all wires to the common ground at the suppressor, not
earthing, stopping, blocking, absorbing.

Meanwhile standards from responsible organizations
such IEEE state that earthing provides the protection.
The IEEE guide was published by the IEEE.


How to identify an ineffective protector ... two simple rules: 1)
It has no dedicated earthing wire and 2) manufacturer avoids all
discussion about earthing. That Monster Cable product violates both
rules.
w_ has a religious belief in earthing. But as explained by the IEEE
guide, plug-in suppressors don't work primarily by earthing.


No earth ground means no effective
protection - even if selling for $125.
Statement of religious belief in earthing #2.


No earth ground means no effective
protection. We install protectors to make even lightning surges
irrelevant - even for $1 per protected appliance.
Statement of religious belief in earthing #3.

Both the IEEE and NIST guides say plug-in suppressors are effective.
HDTV systems may be one of the more appropriate places to use them
because of value of the equipment. I agree the Circuit City guy is not
reliable.

Note that all interconnected equipment needs to be connected to the
same plug-in suppressor, or interconnecting wires need to go through
the suppressor. Other external wires like cable TV, phone, ... also
need to go thorough the suppressor. The voltage on ALL wires (power
and signal) to protected devices needs to be clamped to the common
ground at the suppressor. This is described in both guides.

--
bud--

"Jane" wrote in message
ups.com...
Just bought a Samsung 46" HDTV at Circuit City. They tried to talk me
into a very expensive surge protector. They also said I MUST have a
Monster HDMI cable for $125 which I later found out was bull. So I
decided to wait on their surge protector and ask you guys out there
for advice.

Do I need it? What brand is best? I have a really good one for my
computer but it's paid for by my company. I also have a Liebert which
costs about $30 but I believe is meant mostly for computers, or are
they generic?

This is the first non-conventional TV I've had and it cost enough so
that I'd like to protect it if it's necessary. I'm willing to spend
whatever I should but don't want to spend more than I have to. I know
that nothing will protect me from a direct lightening hit, but we do
get lots of power blips around here.

Advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812120408 is the best
value that I have found.

http://www.panamax.com/products.cfm?...il&id=249&ly=v is more
money but has over/under voltage cutoff, which is nice if you have lots of
brownouts.

Both units have lifetime warranties. Panamax has an impeccable reputation
and history of service. CyberPower is a newer player with a good cheap
product with similar protection.

w_tom has showed up once again to confuse and spout his anti-surge
suppressor lies. That's right, I said lies. I have tried to be reasonable
with him in the past and give him credit for the partial truths that he
emphasizes, but he simply keeps coming back with more venomous attacks on a
product category that is very useful when applied with good sense. His
statemement that "All electronics contain protection that would be effective
on its power cord" is untrue, silly, and contradicts his later statement
that no dedicated ground wire makes any suppressor ineffective. I will
bother to engage him in debate on the matter as he has been debunked in the
past and anything other than keeping his posts from confusing other readers
is a waste of time. Bud has repeatedly corrected him as well.

Get a good, inexpensive surge suppressor like the one above, pay no
attention to claims of improved picture quality or the need for regulation,
filtering, or a UPS, make sure that you connect all incoming signal lines
through the suppressor as well as all a.c. cords, and verify your system
grounding. The last item is where w_tom has been correct, in part. Without
good grounding, SS are much less effective. Each line comming into your
home should be properly grounded according to code. Many installers do not
do so on cable and sat systems.

Leonard




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On Feb 24, 3:35 am, "Leonard Caillouet" wrote:
"Jane" wrote in message

ups.com...



Just bought a Samsung 46" HDTV at Circuit City. They tried to talk me
into a very expensive surge protector. They also said I MUST have a
Monster HDMI cable for $125 which I later found out was bull. So I
decided to wait on their surge protector and ask you guys out there
for advice.

Do I need it? What brand is best? I have a really good one for my
computer but it's paid for by my company. I also have a Liebert which
costs about $30 but I believe is meant mostly for computers, or are
they generic?

This is the first non-conventional TV I've had and it cost enough so
that I'd like to protect it if it's necessary. I'm willing to spend
whatever I should but don't want to spend more than I have to. I know
that nothing will protect me from a direct lightening hit, but we do
get lots of power blips around here.

Advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...E16812120408is the best
value that I have found.

http://www.panamax.com/products.cfm?...&id=249&ly=vis more
money but has over/under voltage cutoff, which is nice if you have lots of
brownouts.

Both units have lifetime warranties. Panamax has an impeccable reputation
and history of service. CyberPower is a newer player with a good cheap
product with similar protection.

w_tom has showed up once again to confuse and spout his anti-surge
suppressor lies. That's right, I said lies. I have tried to be reasonable
with him in the past and give him credit for the partial truths that he
emphasizes, but he simply keeps coming back with more venomous attacks on a
product category that is very useful when applied with good sense. His
statemement that "All electronics contain protection that would be effective
on its power cord" is untrue, silly, and contradicts his later statement
that no dedicated ground wire makes any suppressor ineffective. I will
bother to engage him in debate on the matter as he has been debunked in the
past and anything other than keeping his posts from confusing other readers
is a waste of time. Bud has repeatedly corrected him as well.

Get a good, inexpensive surge suppressor like the one above, pay no
attention to claims of improved picture quality or the need for regulation,
filtering, or a UPS, make sure that you connect all incoming signal lines
through the suppressor as well as all a.c. cords, and verify your system
grounding. The last item is where w_tom has been correct, in part. Without
good grounding, SS are much less effective. Each line comming into your
home should be properly grounded according to code. Many installers do not
do so on cable and sat systems.

Leonard

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 598 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Try SPAMfighter for free now!


Where I have worked (video production companies) every rack has been
protected with a Furman Power Conditioner. Here at home I use an
RP-8, about $30 from Musician's Friend. I have one on the computer
and the equipment in the office, and another one lives behind the
entertainment center in the living room. I'm not afraid of lightning,
just of spikes on the line due to switching.

Jane wrote:

Just bought a Samsung 46" HDTV at Circuit City. They tried to talk me
into a very expensive surge protector. They also said I MUST have a
Monster HDMI cable for $125 which I later found out was bull. So I
decided to wait on their surge protector and ask you guys out there
for advice.

HDMI cables are on the Internet for less than $20.

Some of those of us who have rear-projection LCD TVs with the expensive
light bulb use uninterruptable power suppies, typically a reasonable
size APC unit. The UPS protects as a surge protector and gives you a
chance to properly power down the hot-running bulb in the event of a
power failure.

"Jane" wrote in message
ups.com...
Just bought a Samsung 46" HDTV at Circuit City. They tried to talk me
into a very expensive surge protector. They also said I MUST have a
Monster HDMI cable for $125 which I later found out was bull. So I
decided to wait on their surge protector and ask you guys out there
for advice.

Do I need it? What brand is best? I have a really good one for my
computer but it's paid for by my company. I also have a Liebert which
costs about $30 but I believe is meant mostly for computers, or are
they generic?

This is the first non-conventional TV I've had and it cost enough so
that I'd like to protect it if it's necessary. I'm willing to spend
whatever I should but don't want to spend more than I have to. I know
that nothing will protect me from a direct lightening hit, but we do
get lots of power blips around here.

Advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

After losing 2 circuit boards in my furnance in 2 years, I decided to
install a surge protector. After 1 1/2 years, I have not lost the board
yet. I think they work, and you have to check them occasionally to make sure
the surge protection circuit has not been used destroyed by a surge.

On Feb 24, 8:38 am, Sam Spade wrote:
Some of those of us who have rear-projection LCD TVs with the expensive
light bulb use uninterruptable power suppies, typically a reasonable
size APC unit. The UPS protects as a surge protector and gives you a
chance to properly power down the hot-running bulb in the event of a
power failure.

If a UPS protects as a surge protector, then it says so in numerical
specifications. Yes, it protects from one type of surge. And again,
we have a half truth. That surge is typically not destructive; made
irrelevant by protection already inside electronics.

Meanwhile another type surge that does damage .... well, that UPS
has no dedicated earthing wire. Therefore no protection from a
typically destructive type surge.

Have doubts? Look at UPS's numerical specs. Where is each type of
surge listed and numbers for that protection listed? They don't list
protection because a UPS without that dedicated earthing wire does not
provide protection from all types of surges. What does a building
wide UPS have? That dedicated earthing wire. Notice that building
wide UPSes can provide surge protection. Does that mean plug-in UPSes
also provide protection? Only when junk science makes assumptions.
No earth ground means no effective protection.

Then we look at its number of joules. That plug-in UPSes has so
few joules that ... well again, we are back to a half fact. They have
installed some joules to claim protection from a typically not
destructive surge. Protection so woefully undersized as to do almost
nothing; maybe create smoke. Effective protectors, instead, have
sufficient joules that earth a direct lightning stike AND remain
functional.

How many joules in that UPS?

Any protection on that TV power cord is already inside that TV.
Protection that can be overwhelmed if a rare and destructive surge is
not earthed where it enters the building. This solution is called a
'whole house' protector from manufacturers that have responsible
names. Why is it effective? 1) More joules. 2) Short ('less than 10
foot') connection to an earth ground also used by TV cable and teleco
installed protector.

Cable does not need a protector. TV Cable must be earthed directly
to earth ground by direct wire, where it enters the building, and
'less than 10 feet'. Protectors effective when they make the
conneciton to earth. But cable is earthed where it enters the
building; no protector required to make that connection.

Another here misrepresents what IEEE demands for protection. Again,
something that the UPS does not provide - that short and dedicated
earthing wire. IEEE recommendations are not in papers. IEEE
recommendations are in standards. IEEE Green Book (Standard142)
entitled 'Static and Lightning Protection Grounding' says:
Lightning cannot be prevented; it can only be intercepted or
diverted to a path which will, if well designed and constructed,
not result in damage.

Necessary for protection defined in IEEE Red Book (Standard 141):
In actual practice, lightning protection is achieve by the
process of interception of lightning produced surges,
diverting them to ground, and by altering their
associated wave shapes.

IEEE Emerald Book, "Powering and Grounding Sensitive Electronic
Equipment" (Standard 1100) says:
It is important to ensure that low-impedance grounding and
bonding connections exist among the telephone and data
equipment, the ac power system's electrical safety-grounding
system, and the building grounding electrode system. ...

Does that UPS have a dedicated wire for earthing? Does its
manufacturer avoid discussing earthing? Both questions identify an
ineffective protector. That UPS does not even claim to provide that
protection. UPS only function is to maintain power during blackouts
and extreme brownouts. That is also claims to do in numerical specs.

Does Jame need a protector? Yes. One that connects to an earth
ground also used by TV cable (hardwired) and by telco installed 'whole
house' protector. All protectors or direct connections must make a
'less than 10 foot' connection to the same earth ground as even
required by post 1990 National Electrical Code. And yes, to protect
the TV, even the telephone 'whole house' protector must be earthed so
that destructive surges do not enter the building. Protection is
defined by a single point earthing electrode. Protectors are nothing
more than connections from each utility wire to protection - earth
ground.

"Jane" wrote in message
ups.com...
Just bought a Samsung 46" HDTV at Circuit City. They tried to talk me
into a very expensive surge protector. They also said I MUST have a
Monster HDMI cable for $125 which I later found out was bull. So I
decided to wait on their surge protector and ask you guys out there
for advice.

Do I need it? What brand is best? I have a really good one for my
computer but it's paid for by my company. I also have a Liebert which
costs about $30 but I believe is meant mostly for computers, or are
they generic?

This is the first non-conventional TV I've had and it cost enough so
that I'd like to protect it if it's necessary. I'm willing to spend
whatever I should but don't want to spend more than I have to. I know
that nothing will protect me from a direct lightening hit, but we do
get lots of power blips around here.

Advice would be appreciated.

Thanks


I wouldn't be without protection, considering the cost of my TV and my
computer system, and use the same model surge suppressor for both, a
neither-cheap-nor-monstrously-expensive one from The Source (used
to be Radio Shack), with nine outlets (with sliding dust covers,
remember this thing is going to live on the floor, more or less
forgotten, for years), phone line protection (essential for the computer
system), and TV cable protection (essential for both systems, since
the computer has built-in TV capabilities -- and the suppressor's
equipment damage warranty wouldn't be valid for the TV if the cable
wasn't protected). Why so many outlets? On the computer system.
it's kind of obvious. On the TV system, remember you're probably
going to have multiple components such as DVD, VHS, HD if not built in
to your set, digital channel unit from your cable service, maybe even
a satellite box.

Besides protection, you get a convenient system-power-off switch
if you anticipate power outages, maybe a flurry of them such as
we got in Vancouver in the late-06 multiple storms, or wavering
power, or if, like me, you have peripherals with no power switch and
you're about to work on your system unit.