unforgivable spam but have you signed it yet?

kim wrote:
"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

The roads are already gridlocked several evenings a week where I live
so what do you suggest as an alternative?


For as long as I can remember, it's been realised that ever increasing
numbers of cars can't keep piling on to a finite number roads, which means
that eventually either the government steps in with some very unpalatable
medicine, or people will have to accept that they are just going to waste a
large part of their lives sitting in traffic jams and not actually going
anywhere.

Much of this problem could have been alleviated if successive post-war
governments had followed a similar pattern to other foreword thinking
countries, and concentrated on investing large amounts of capital in
national decent high-speed railways and local rapid transit systems.

We are now in the ridiculous situation that even where millions of people
are 'actually prepared' to leave their cars at home and use public
transport, the transport companies are increasing fare prices in a
deliberate attempt to try and prevent people from using their overcrowded
systems!


(kim)

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
kim wrote:

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

The roads are already gridlocked several evenings a week where I live
so what do you suggest as an alternative?

(kim)

There are 2 options:
* Persuade people not to travel
* Build more roads

I'm all for Ian Rawlings suggestion of encouraging teleworking. A great deal
of travelling could be eliminated if people were encouraged to work from
home - and if meetings were held via tele-conferencing rather than everyone
needing to be in the same room. There is only limited 'mileage' in trying to
persuade people to use public transport. However cheap and convenient it is
made (and it is neither at the moment!) it can never compete with personal
transport. So the emphasis should be on reducing travelling per se - not on
changing the mode of transport.

With regard to building more roads, a lot of tosh is talked about most of
the country being covered with concrete. It may *look* like that on maps,
because road widths are not shown to scale - but you only have to fly over
the countryside to see how much wide open space still exists. The whole
thing is self-limiting, anyway. As far as I know, no-one can yet drive more
than one vehicle at a time (unless you count trains) - so once we have
enough roads for all 50 million of us to be on the road at the same time
without too many snarl-ups, that's it - solved! That does pre-suppose, of
course, that we can find ways to travel which don't polute the environment.

To return to the original subject, I am firmly of the opinion that most
people who signed the petition did so because they object to the tracking
element rather than being made to pay for road usage. So serious thought
needs to be given to how the original objectives can be achieved *without*
Big Brother knowing our every move.

While on the subject of petitions, I imagine that a lot of people in this NG
do their own mains wiring installations in addition to all the AV stuff -
and are pretty fed up with the restrictions imposed by the very unpopular
'Part P' of the Building Regulations. If you identify with this, perhaps you
would like to sign *my* petition - which you can find at
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Part-P-Review/
--
Cheers,
Roger
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On 11 Feb, 11:47, "Roger Mills" wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,



Wilf wrote:
Peter wrote:
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 01:58:19 -0000, "Bill Wright"
wrote:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

Apparently the government has decided to or will decide to, proceed
with the road pricing sceme and ignore the petition as obviously the
people that have signerd it don't know what is good for them and it
doesn't fit in with what the government had already decided to do.
There's this view that because a lobby group has a load of signatures
that that is democracy and must be listened to and agreed with. No,
that is just a lobby group, however large. Democracy is people voting
at a general election for their party of choice. If the road lobby
wants to set up a single issue party, it can. But look at UKIP. The
trick is to try to influence a party. Not to bully in an
anti-democratic way.

If they *do* ignore a petition with over a million signatures, it will
demonstrate very forcibly what many of us suspect - that this whole petition
business is a charade!

Meanwhile, continue signing this and other petitions - and we'll see what
happens.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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I would consider this petition all the more valid if there were a
similar poll for people who want road pricing. I'd happily vote for
it. Roads are a commodity just like bread, coffee or oil. If demand
outstrips supply you either pay more for it or wait in a queue.

In message , Ian Jackson
wrote


There are many places where congestion could be greatly relieved simply
by changing the lane markings (and enforcing compliance), putting up a
few signs etc. One sign which I would like to see is 'Keep Going - Do
Not Slow Down - Get A Move On!'. Indeed, there are some places where
changes in the roads have been narrowed and the layout changed, and the
result seems to be worse congestion than before.

The use of inappropriate road calming schemes is a major cause of the
problems in urban areas. They are usually promoted as an aid to safety
but in reality it results in more people using back street rat runs.

I get the impression that in certain areas of my town the road changes
have been instigated because of problems with a dozen boy racers at 11pm
on a Saturday night. The planners have forgotten that the same roads are
used by tens of thousands of other motorists going to and from work.

And, of course, there are the crazy traffic light systems which
'ratchet' you around motorway intersections, and land you in the wrong
lane at the next set of lights (eg M40, J15) , when a system of
mini-roundabouts would be more effective (and

Have you noticed how well the traffic flows when these type of lights
fail?

Local to me they are starting to add unnecessary filter lights at all of
the junctions so that the light change cycle period is increased by
around 100 percent. Pedestrian crossing light periods have also been
increased three fold and the pedestrian is often quarter of a mile
further along the road before cars are allowed to move again.


Then, of course, there are the virtually 'permanent' roadworks, with
permanent speed restrictions. The recent installation of the gantry
signs on the M40 in Oxfordshire seemed to be being carried out by a
two-man team, working alternate days.

In the Essex area the brain dead Police officers enforce road surveys
where they close lanes on the main routes ensuring that a 14 mile
journey can take 3 hours!

BTW, in my area we have cycle lanes that run for all of three foot!


--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

In message .com,
" wrote


I would consider this petition all the more valid if there were a
similar poll for people who want road pricing. I'd happily vote for
it. Roads are a commodity just like bread, coffee or oil. If demand
outstrips supply you either pay more for it or wait in a queue.


The price of your bread, coffee and oil would probably rise
significantly as a result of road pricing. With centralised distribution
systems goods are often transported long distances by road.

--
Alan
new s2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

On 11 Feb, 12:57, Alan wrote:
In message .com,
" wrote



I would consider this petition all the more valid if there were a
similar poll for people who want road pricing. I'd happily vote for
it. Roads are a commodity just like bread, coffee or oil. If demand
outstrips supply you either pay more for it or wait in a queue.

The price of your bread, coffee and oil would probably rise
significantly as a result of road pricing. With centralised distribution
systems goods are often transported long distances by road.

--
Alan
new s2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com


Seperate issue. Also every statement by the transport minister has
pointed to a reduction in other duties (fuel, car tax) to balance the
effect making many journeys cheaper.

There are many places where congestion could be greatly relieved simply
by changing the lane markings (and enforcing compliance), putting up a few
signs etc. One sign which I would like to see is 'Keep Going - Do Not Slow
Down - Get A Move On!'. Indeed, there are some places where changes in the
roads have been narrowed and the layout changed, and the result seems to
be worse congestion than before.

My favourite is the one that says "Use both lanes".
Just how is one supposed to comply with such a request?

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

In message .com,
" wrote


Seperate issue. Also every statement by the transport minister has
pointed to a reduction in other duties (fuel, car tax) to balance the
effect making many journeys cheaper.


If it will not cost any more it will not make any difference to the
traffic.

The London congestion has modified some car usage because the cost for a
year for driving into London is a lot more than the average motorist
would pay in fuel and car taxation.

The current road taxation method is a very effective way, for the
Government, to collect money from drivers. Any other scheme is likely to
incur additional administration - paid for by the motorist.
If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
ercial wrote:


I would consider this petition all the more valid if there were a
similar poll for people who want road pricing. I'd happily vote for
it. Roads are a commodity just like bread, coffee or oil. If demand
outstrips supply you either pay more for it or wait in a queue.

If you're a supplier of bread and you can sell more than you have made, you
.. . er . . make some more!
--
Cheers,
Roger
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
ercial wrote:


Seperate issue. Also every statement by the transport minister has
pointed to a reduction in other duties (fuel, car tax) to balance the
effect making many journeys cheaper.


And you seriously believe *THAT*?!!!!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!