Tivo 101 questions

Simple questions (as you'll see, I know nothing about Tivo, so forgive
me):

What is the difference between tivo and dvr? Are they the same?
Is it possible to use a tivo box without a tivo subscription?
What is the easiest way to digitally record television for future
playback.. tivo? Comcast's DVR? a homemade DVR?

Does a DVR/Tivo require a digital cable package or can it be used with
standard cable?

On 30 Jan 2007 17:00:10 -0800, "chump" wrote:

Simple questions (as you'll see, I know nothing about Tivo, so forgive
me):

What is the difference between tivo and dvr? Are they the same?

Basically, yes. but Tivo was there first and many users prefer their
hardware, software, and interface.

Is it possible to use a tivo box without a tivo subscription?

In general, no. there are a couple of exceptions, but if you are
talking about "new" equipment, no.

What is the easiest way to digitally record television for future
playback.. tivo? Comcast's DVR? a homemade DVR?

From what source? If you get good digital OTA, then there are some
options, if you can't and have cable, there are options, and if you
have satellite service, there are options.

Does a DVR/Tivo require a digital cable package or can it be used with
standard cable?

Depends on the model. there are DVRs available for both.
Charlie Hoffpauir
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/

From what source? If you get good digital OTA, then there are some
options, if you can't and have cable, there are options, and if you
have satellite service, there are options.

I have comcast's standard cable package. I'm assuming that means the
signal is still analog. I'm interested in the easiest cheapest, more
robust way to have a DVR. I looked into this MythTV thing. Looks
pretty neat, but also way complex. I don't happen to have any old PC's
around either. Seems like I'd spend more gathering all the needed
hardware for creating my own DVR than just subscribing to comcast's
DVR. Or a Tivo setup.

Any thoughts.

Ryan

In article . com,
"chump" writes:

What is the difference between tivo and dvr? Are they the same?

"DVR" stands for "digital video recorder," which is a general product
category, like "car." "TiVo" doesn't stand for anything; it's a specific
brand of DVR, much like a Toyota is a specific type of car.

Is it possible to use a tivo box without a tivo subscription?

I haven't been following developments in this arena of late, but the last
I heard, TiVo functionality will be very limited without a subscription.
You might be able to play back existing recordings, but I'm not positive
of that. Some very old TiVos enabled you to use the device like a VCR
(manually scheduling recordings) without a subscription, but TiVo (the
company) removed that option pretty early on. If you're highly allergic to
the idea of a subscription, some build-it-yourself DVRs (such as MythTV;
http://www.mythtv.org) let you use the device without a subscription;
however, you're likely to spend as much or more on the PC hardware to run
MythTV as you'd spend on a TiVo and a good long subscription.

What is the easiest way to digitally record television for future
playback.. tivo? Comcast's DVR? a homemade DVR?

I have no experience with Comcast's DVR, so I can't comment on it. TiVo is
certainly pretty easy to use, though. A homemade DVR will require DVR
software, and there are many options for this, which of course vary in
usability. I've recently been mucking about with one (MythTV), and I find
it's far behind TiVo in ease of use, particularly when you factor in
hardware configuration. OTOH, MythTV is extremely flexible and expandable.

Does a DVR/Tivo require a digital cable package or can it be used with
standard cable?

Depending on the model you get, a TiVo can work with any of several
sources:

- The older Series 2 (and still older Series 1) units record standard
definition via analog inputs. They can record over-the-air (OTA)
broadcasts or unscrambled analog cable directly, or they can record
scrambled cable, digital cable, or satellite signals via the provider's
set-top box (the TiVo controls the box via an "IR blaster," which is a
remote control surrogate).

- DirecTiVo units (that term is an unofficial but common one) work
directly with DirecTV, but DirecTV is phasing them out in favor of their
own in-house DVR. You can probably still find DirecTiVos in stores,
though. They record standard definition, and some models record high
definition, DirecTV signals. I believe, but am not 100% positive, that
the high definition units can also record OTA digital TV signals (but
not cable or analog OTA signals).

- I'm least familiar with the Series 3 units. I believe they won't work
with satellite or with a cable system via a cable box, but they will
work with an antenna or "straight" cable, either analog or digital. They
rely on CableCard technology to decrypt encrypted digital signals. Cable
companies are supposed to deploy CableCard in the near future, if they
haven't already, but I don't know how common it is just yet. Be sure to
check this if it's important to you.

I don't know the details for most other DVRs. I know that MythTV will work
with OTA analog, OTA digital, unencrypted analog cable, or anything via a
set-top box, depending on the tuner card(s) and other hardware you buy.
AFAIK, there are no CableCard-enabled tuner cards available, and there's
no way to legally decrypt Dish Network or DirecTV signals except via their
own hardware, so digital cable and satellite only works for home-built
DVRs via set-top boxes from the provider.

--
Rod Smith,
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

On 30 Jan 2007 17:00:10 -0800, "chump" wrote:

Simple questions (as you'll see, I know nothing about Tivo, so forgive
me):

What is the difference between tivo and dvr? Are they the same?
Is it possible to use a tivo box without a tivo subscription?
What is the easiest way to digitally record television for future
playback.. tivo? Comcast's DVR? a homemade DVR?

Does a DVR/Tivo require a digital cable package or can it be used with
standard cable?

I first got a DVR in 1999. At that time all I had was cable. Digital
cable was not even available.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

On 1/30/2007 7:57 PM, Ryan wrote:
From what source? If you get good digital OTA, then there are some
options, if you can't and have cable, there are options, and if you
have satellite service, there are options.

I have comcast's standard cable package. I'm assuming that means the
signal is still analog. I'm interested in the easiest cheapest, more
robust way to have a DVR. I looked into this MythTV thing. Looks
pretty neat, but also way complex. I don't happen to have any old PC's
around either. Seems like I'd spend more gathering all the needed
hardware for creating my own DVR than just subscribing to comcast's
DVR. Or a Tivo setup.

Any thoughts.

Ryan

Cheapest, most robust is the Comcast DVR. Monthly costs are minimal and
less than the monthly cost of a Tivo subscription. Noting to buy. With
Tivo or build it yourself you have to buy the DVR.

If the DVR has a problem Comcast fixes or replaces it. If it becomes
obsolete Comcast replaces it.

The Tivo software and user interface is definitely better than the
alternatives and more attractive, but you pay a high price for the
modest functional improvements. If you want HD or digital input you pay
a dear price with the Tivo. Tivo is working with the cable companies to
make the Tivo software available on the able company boxes.

I have both a Series 2 dual-tuner Tivo (that means non-HD) and a
Comcast/Time-Warner Motorola dual tuner HD DVR. When the Tivo
subscription expires, like lots of Tivo owners, we won't renew it. The
cheaper cable company box is certainly adequate.

Satellite services offer similar options.

"Ryan" shaped the electrons to say:
To add another dimension to my newbie questions - I have a family
member who is going to give me an older Tivo box for free. Will it
then be worthless without the Tivo subscription???

If it is an old Series1 you can use it without a sub. If it is a
Pioneer or Toshiba Series2 you can use it with TiVo Basic without a
TiVo Plus sub. Otherwise it is a doorstop without a sub.

-MZ
--
URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-852-2171
URL:http://www.megazone.org/ URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/ Eris

Bernie shaped the electrons to say:
Cheapest, most robust is the Comcast DVR. Monthly costs are minimal and
less than the monthly cost of a Tivo subscription. Noting to buy. With
Tivo or build it yourself you have to buy the DVR.

This isn't correct - he has basic, analog cable. To get the Comcast
DVR he MUST have digital cable. So his costs will include upgrading
his cable service to digital *plus* the box rental fee *plus* the DVR
fee. That almost invariably adds up to well above a monthly TiVo
subscription fee. And it won't do as much as TiVo.

If the DVR has a problem Comcast fixes or replaces it. If it becomes
obsolete Comcast replaces it.

There have already been reports of people not being able to get newer
DVR models because of weak supply and cable companies being more
interested in giving what boxes they have to new subscribers instead
of upgrading those who already have a DVR. So don't necessarily count
on an upgrade just because you want it.

-MZ
--
URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-852-2171
URL:http://www.megazone.org/ URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/ Eris

To add another dimension to my newbie questions - I have a family
member who is going to give me an older Tivo box for free. Will it
then be worthless without the Tivo subscription???

"chump" shaped the electrons to say:
What is the difference between tivo and dvr? Are they the same?

DVR is Digital Video Recorder. That term applies to basically
anything that records video in a digital format, though usually
specifically only devices that record to a hard drive, sometimes to
flash memory. For example, DVDs are digital recordings but DVD
recorders aren't called DVRs, and D-VHS (Digital VHS) is digital, but
no one calls those DVRs.

TiVo is a specific brand of DVR, and one of the industry pioneers.
They're generally considered to have founded the industry, along with
ReplayTV, in 1999. Both companies launched at the same time, though
ReplayTV has exited the market.

TiVo is basically a premium model DVR, with more features and
functionality than 'commodity' DVRs like those the cable companies
provide.

Is it possible to use a tivo box without a tivo subscription?

The old Series1 units will work without a subscription. Pioneer and
Toshiba branded Series2 DVD/TiVo combo units include TiVo Basic, which
is a basic feature set. And you can upgrade to a TiVo Plus
subscription for all the features.

Otherwise, all Series2 and Series3 units are doorstops without a
subscription. The business model is to subsidize the unit with the
subscription, they basically give away S2 units for free.

What is the easiest way to digitally record television for future
playback.. tivo? Comcast's DVR? a homemade DVR?

Any DVR will record TV digitally - that's what they do after all. For
ease of use, I think TiVo wins hands down. You can use Season Passes,
Wishlists, manual recordings, etc, to record what you want. Many DVRs
only offer basic recurring recordings, most lack even the full
functionality of TiVo's Season Passes, let alone Wishlists.

TiVo also allows you to schedule recordings via the web - at TiVo.com
or via Yahoo TV listings, listen to digital music over the network,
display photos on your TV, transfer recordings to or from a PC, and
access online applications like Fandango movie listings, Live365.com
music, and sites like Apps.tv. These are things cable DVRs don't do.
Most cable DVRs are basically digital VCRs and that's it.

Does a DVR/Tivo require a digital cable package or can it be used with
standard cable?

All TiVos work with standard (analog) cable natively. The Series1 and
Series2 units have a single tuner, the Series2DT and Series3 have
dual-tuners and can record two channels at a time.

Series1, 2, and 2DT units can also control an external cable box to
record digital cable - one digital channel at a time. The Series3 use
CableCARD and can record two digital channels at a time, and it
records HD. The S1, 2, & 2DT can also control an external satellite
receiver in lieu of a cable box. The S3 doesn't work with satellite.

The S1 & S2 support analog OTA signals from antenna (NTSC). The S3
supports analog (NTSC) and digital (ATSC) OTA signals from antenna.
The S2DT does not support antenna.


Since you have analog cable, the best option for you would be the
Series2DT. And it is probably cheaper than getting a DVR from
Comcast, because cable DVRs require digital cable - so you would need
to upgrade to digital service, paying more, then add the basic box
rental fee, and then add the DVR fee on top of that. And you'd have a
basic dual-tuner DVR without any of the network features the TiVo has,
and less powerful scheduling features.

-MZ
--
URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-852-2171
URL:http://www.megazone.org/ URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/ Eris