Integrating 2-Channel and Home Theater

All,
I am looking to make some serious electronic purchases over the next
few months or so. I have started out with a 50" Panasonic plasma, to
which I want to add a 5.1 speaker setup. In addition, I want to build
out a hi-fi 2-channel stereo system.

I recently visited a great guy in my area who is a reseller for some
great equipment (Cambridge Audio, Rogue Audio, Totem Acoustic, Joseph
Audio, Simaudio, etc.). I really enjoyed the Totem Forest speakers
(and they were within my price range). I also listened to some Rogue
Audio equipment (Perseus preamp and Stereo 90 amplifier), which I
liked. I also liked the fact that it had a home theater bypass option,

which would allow me to utilize the Totem Forests as not only my two
channel speakers but also my front channel within a HT setup. I sort
of sense that this gentleman is a purist, not really wanting to suggest

mixing home theater and 2-channel. My question is - what is your
opinion? What do you think about integrating home theater and
2-channel? And, more importantly, beyond purchasing the plasma, how
should I approach building this setup out? Should I purchase three of
the Dreamcatchers (left and right rear and the subwoofer), along with
the Forests and perhaps the Simaudio Moon i5.3? That would allow me to

proceed with the 5.1 buildout and then buy the tuner and CD player
later.

OR, do I proceed with purchasing the 2-channel stereo system, then add
the rear speakers and subwoofer at a later time?

I've got a ton of questions, since I'm just starting out with my
research. Any help would be much appreciated.

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oups.com...
All,
I am looking to make some serious electronic purchases over the next
few months or so. I have started out with a 50" Panasonic plasma, to
which I want to add a 5.1 speaker setup. In addition, I want to build
out a hi-fi 2-channel stereo system.

I recently visited a great guy in my area who is a reseller for some
great equipment (Cambridge Audio, Rogue Audio, Totem Acoustic, Joseph
Audio, Simaudio, etc.). I really enjoyed the Totem Forest speakers
(and they were within my price range). I also listened to some Rogue
Audio equipment (Perseus preamp and Stereo 90 amplifier), which I
liked. I also liked the fact that it had a home theater bypass option,
which would allow me to utilize the Totem Forests as not only my two
channel speakers but also my front channel within a HT setup. I sort
of sense that this gentleman is a purist, not really wanting to suggest


I see no reason why a system can't double as a top notch 2 channel system as
well as a top notch theater system....in fact that was my main design goal
when building my audio room.

You'll want seperates for sure, as a receiver just won't cut it for this.
I'd seriously look at buiding a system around the Outlaw 990 pre/pro, it's 2
channel is amazing and is comparable to stereo preamps that costs 3x as
much. And of course it's multi-channel is just as good. But the stereo sound
is where it really shines, and that's what really matters. If a pre/pro can
handle 2 channel with finesse, multichannel is not a problem.

Totem speakers would be a good choice. Add the multichannel amp of your
choice to the 990, get a Cambridge CD player, a DVD player that does SACD
and DVD-A and you'll be in audio heaven in both 2 channel and multichannel!

Back to the speakers...just remember that all the speakers must match. 5
identical speakers (plus a nice subwoofer) are ideal, but not always
practical for the center channel. I'm sure Totem probably makes a matching
center if you can't use a Forest for a center...something like the Model 1
twin.

And back to SACD and DVD-A. If you haven't heard these formats propertly,
you're in for a treat. A good high resolution multichannel audio recording
is about as close to audio bliss as you can come!

"Neck & Red" wrote in message
link.net...

I am looking to make some serious electronic purchases over the next
few months or so. I have started out with a 50" Panasonic plasma, to
which I want to add a 5.1 speaker setup. In addition, I want to
build
out a hi-fi 2-channel stereo system.

I see no reason why a system can't double as a top notch 2 channel
system as well as a top notch theater system....in fact that was my
main design goal when building my audio room.

I agree.

A good speaker system will work equally well for stereo and surround.
All you need is some decent audio gear and a good set of front main
speakers for stereo, and then add in matching center and rear speakers
for surround sound, which is what I did with my setup.

You'll want seperates for sure, as a receiver just won't cut it for
this.

I have to disagree here.

Everyone has their own opinions, but personal experience has shown that
separates are like fancy speaker wires - expensive and unnecessary.
Unless you have high output demands that require separate amplifiers or
specific processing needs, good receivers designed for clean audio will
sound equally sweet. For many people, separates are bought more for
bragging rights than audio quality.

There are some brands that specifically design their receivers to
produce outstanding stereo sound, like Marantz (and others), which uses
a "by-pass" to avoid unnecessary processing of the audio signal called
the Source-Direct button. This by-pass is a switch on the receiver that
disables bass & treble curves for a flat response and does not use the
digital processor in the receiver to avoid noise and unneeded processing
of the signal to help maintain a pure sound. It's not a gimmick button
either, the audio is clearly better using the by-pass.

Shop around, there are many options for good receivers that won't
disappoint (as suggested Outlaw makes a fine receiver too). If you have
the budget for separates, go ahead, but don't be lured into the hype and
spend more than you need.

The same goes for CD and DVD players where you use a digital connection
for the audio and the players don't need to be really expensive to
provide good sound. Since the receiver will be doing most of the digital
conversion, a good receiver (or pre/pro) will take care of the signal
for you. All you need is a decent transport system to get the digital
data off the CD or DVD and pass it along to the processors in the
receiver.

Most of the expensive players have high quality DACs and circuits for
doing all the processing on-board, and many people eshew their benefits
(including me). But it's only a benefit if your receiver has a cheap DAC
that doesn't do a good job converting the digital signal or if you have
an older system that lacks digital inputs. These players are great for
those scenarios, but you don't need them with a good system.

Back to the speakers...just remember that all the speakers must match.
5 identical speakers (plus a nice subwoofer) are ideal, but not always
practical for the center channel. I'm sure Totem probably makes a
matching center if you can't use a Forest for a center...something
like the Model 1 twin.

I agree.

Good speakers are not hard to find...there are literally dozens of
brands that sound amazing. And just like audio gear, speakers don't need
to cost a lot to look and sound good. There is a curve of diminishing
returns where spending more only gets you a little more quality. For two
front main speakers, that curve levels off around the $1000+ price for
something like a pair of two-and-a-half way tower speakers. Of course
the design, size, and finish of the speaker will greatly influence
price, but you get the idea.

And again, unless you have specific needs, shop around and you'll find
some fantastic speakers for a reasonable price. But don't be too
thrifty. Speakers are arguably the most important part of any music or
home theater system since they're responsible for converting the
electrical audio signals into the sound that you hear.

Look and listen to brands like PSB, Paradigm, Mirage, NHT, B&W, KEF,
Definitive Tech, Wharfdale, etc. Good speakers are designed to reproduce
the sound source without adding or subtracting anything, which is why
many good brands sound surprisingly similar.

The first three speaker brands I listed above are Canadian designed and
manufactured. We Canadians suck at a lot of things, but making good
speakers is one of the areas where we've managed to excel.

:-)

And if you live close to the Canadian border, you can save a bundle of
cash if you buy the speakers in Canada and take them back home. And of
course there are the online-only retailers like Axiom Audio which have
decent systems for reasonable prices, if you're willing to buy without
listening first (and Axiom is Canadian too!).

Good luck!

"Bill" wrote in message
.. .


Everyone has their own opinions, but personal experience has shown that
separates are like fancy speaker wires - expensive and unnecessary. Unless
you have high output demands that require separate amplifiers or specific
processing needs, good receivers designed for clean audio will sound
equally sweet. For many people, separates are bought more for bragging
rights than audio quality.


We'll have to agree to disagree here. Although we are on the same page about
cables. I just have to snicker when I hear people saying "yeah I just got a
$75 optical cable and it sounds phenomenal!" Yeah I'm sure it does...however
it sounds identical to a $10 optical cable...because they are the same cable
just in different packages!

But as far as seperates...once you make the step up you'll see what I mean.
Receivers are basically compromised designs...cheapen the preamp, cheapen
the amplifier, cheapen the power supply so it will all fit in the same
chassis. This is why seperates have such an advantage...no compromises are
made and each component has it's own dedicated power supply. Not to mention
the ease of upgrading. Get a good multi channel amp and you'll never have to
replace it. Ever.

You can think of receivers like built in graphics cards on computers...they
do the basic job quite well but once you graduate to the next level and want
to get a little more serious you get a seperate, non-crippled graphics card.

AND seeing as how a really good receiver will run you $1000-$1500, why not
spend a little more and do it right? Outlaw has really closed the gap by
offering a pre/pro for $1100 that performs like most $4500 pre/pros. In this
case, where 2 channel audio is the priority, I really feel that seperates
are the way to go for sure. Why settle for lunchmeat when you can have
steak?

"Neck & Red" wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
.. .


Everyone has their own opinions, but personal experience has shown that
separates are like fancy speaker wires - expensive and unnecessary.
Unless you have high output demands that require separate amplifiers or
specific processing needs, good receivers designed for clean audio will
sound equally sweet. For many people, separates are bought more for
bragging rights than audio quality.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Although we are on the same page
about cables. I just have to snicker when I hear people saying "yeah I
just got a $75 optical cable and it sounds phenomenal!" Yeah I'm sure it
does...however it sounds identical to a $10 optical cable...because they
are the same cable just in different packages!

But as far as seperates...once you make the step up you'll see what I
mean. Receivers are basically compromised designs...cheapen the preamp,
cheapen the amplifier, cheapen the power supply so it will all fit in the
same chassis. This is why seperates have such an advantage...no
compromises are made and each component has it's own dedicated power
supply. Not to mention the ease of upgrading. Get a good multi channel
amp and you'll never have to replace it. Ever.

You can think of receivers like built in graphics cards on
computers...they do the basic job quite well but once you graduate to the
next level and want to get a little more serious you get a seperate,
non-crippled graphics card.

AND seeing as how a really good receiver will run you $1000-$1500, why
not spend a little more and do it right? Outlaw has really closed the gap
by offering a pre/pro for $1100 that performs like most $4500 pre/pros.
In this case, where 2 channel audio is the priority, I really feel that
seperates are the way to go for sure. Why settle for lunchmeat when you
can have steak?

All of what you say is true, but for the vast majority of buyers,
there is no real advantage to separates. The top quality receivers
like Yamaha, Denon and Onkyo are the best value. The upgrade arguement
is the only advantage I see to buying separates. Just my opinion, of
course!

Chip

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[snippage]
OR, do I proceed with purchasing the 2-channel stereo system, then add
the rear speakers and subwoofer at a later time?

I've always felt the best approach is to pick main speakers that are
satisfying by themselves for music, but to limit my choices to those mains
that have timbre-matched center and surround speakers available from the
manufacturer. These and a subwoofer can then be purchased at the same time
or later.

Any digital receiver can be configured for 2-channel operation, or for
operation with whatever array of speakers is present.

There has always been a great deal of controversy over the audibility of
differences between better receivers and separates. The blind testing I've
read about suggests that as long as two amplifiers measure similarly and are
operated within their performance limits, there will be no meaningful
audible differences between them, whether they are part of a receiver or
separate. The question then becomes one of whether your speakers, operating
in your listening environment according to your needs and listening habits,
will be adequately served by a receiver.

Separates do offer more flexibility and the potential for more output power,
but many listeners need neither.

RichC