Report from Japan: January 2007 update

Mark Crispin wrote:
All the broadcasters are primarily in HD, and go to SD only for old
4:3 programming. Even cartoons are mostly 16:9.

Mark, would you say that HD program sources are more prevalent in
Japan than in the US? I know that the US's situation--where all six
national commercial broadcast networks have for the past few years
aired about 100% of their prime-time programming (except some reality
shows) in HD--is about seven or eight years ahead of Europe's, but I'd
thought the Japanese deployment (excluding MUSE) was only a step ahead
of Europe's and still behind the US's.

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On 1/5/2007 1:09 PM, Tam/WB2TT wrote:
"Mark Crispin" wrote in message
da.com...

.. . .
Also remember that mobile television is a toy. People are buying
HDTV. They are not buying into mobile.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding
what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the
vote.

I see mobile HD as something you have in the back seat of a limo, and
you watch it on the way home from the airport. Not a market of any
meaningful size.

OTH, there is mobile non HD TV in the US, supplied by some cellular
providers. This makes more sense, because you are served from the
nearest cell tower. The newest version actually simulate
broadcasting, because if 3 people in the same cell watch the same
program, they will all be sharing the same RF channel/time slot. You
might say they are put on a party line.

Tam

I'd say there is a HUGE market. Have you noticed how many SUV's and vans
have DVD players. typically watched by children or other family members
sitting in the backseats? How many times have you driven down the road
or stopped at a light and seen a DVD playing? I've already been asked
why a TV tuner isn't available for those screens.

Bernie

"Bernie" wrote in message
. ..
On 1/5/2007 1:09 PM, Tam/WB2TT wrote:
"Mark Crispin" wrote in message
da.com...

. . .
Also remember that mobile television is a toy. People are buying HDTV.
They are not buying into mobile.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what
to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the
vote.

I see mobile HD as something you have in the back seat of a limo, and
you watch it on the way home from the airport. Not a market of any
meaningful size.

OTH, there is mobile non HD TV in the US, supplied by some cellular
providers. This makes more sense, because you are served from the nearest
cell tower. The newest version actually simulate broadcasting, because if
3 people in the same cell watch the same program, they will all be
sharing the same RF channel/time slot. You might say they are put on a
party line.

Tam

I'd say there is a HUGE market. Have you noticed how many SUV's and vans
have DVD players. typically watched by children or other family members
sitting in the backseats? How many times have you driven down the road
or stopped at a light and seen a DVD playing? I've already been asked
why a TV tuner isn't available for those screens.

Bernie

There are certainly ways of watching analog TV in a car if you really want
to. I think that DVDs have pretty much taken over that market. 20 years ago
I would (very) accasionally see a car , usually a limo, with a TV antenna on
it - but not any more. Live TV in a car would make sense for sports, though.
Since a car antenna would have less gain than rabit ears, and be close to
the ground, it would be hopeless on a trip.
Tam

On Sat, 6 Jan 2007, Yeechang Lee wrote:
Mark, would you say that HD program sources are more prevalent in
Japan than in the US? I know that the US's situation--where all six
national commercial broadcast networks have for the past few years
aired about 100% of their prime-time programming (except some reality
shows) in HD--is about seven or eight years ahead of Europe's, but I'd
thought the Japanese deployment (excluding MUSE) was only a step ahead
of Europe's and still behind the US's.

Your impression is largely correct.

However, most Japanese OTA TV programming is widescreen, even if non-HD,
and has been that way for years. I don't know how it's done, but somehow
Japanese 4:3 and 16:9 TVs both do the right thing on analog channels.

In addition to MUSE, there is some HD on cable and satellite. However,
most cable channels are still SD, and many (particularly foreign origin)
are 4:3. Not surprising.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

On Sat, 6 Jan 2007, Bernie wrote:
I'd say there is a HUGE market. Have you noticed how many SUV's and vans
have DVD players. typically watched by children or other family members
sitting in the backseats? How many times have you driven down the road
or stopped at a light and seen a DVD playing? I've already been asked
why a TV tuner isn't available for those screens.

A DVD player makes sense for kiddie entertainment. A TV tuner does not.

With a DVD, you can control what the youngsters are watching; and more
importantly you aren't distracted by a sudden burst of loud audio for
advertisements.

Furthermore, a DVD is immune to reception disruptions, which (contrary to
the claims of one Psycho Bob Miller) still happen quite often with
COFDM-based modulation.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

On Sat, 6 Jan 2007, Tam/WB2TT wrote:
Live TV in a car would make sense for sports, though.
Since a car antenna would have less gain than rabit ears, and be close to
the ground, it would be hopeless on a trip.

Cars in Japan with 1seg tuners have to have Space Cadet diversity antennas
to work at all. And remember that this is to get piddly 320x180 video.

And you lose the signal as soon as you get 20 miles from town.
Fortunately Japanese traffic jams mean that that'll take an hour or so.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

"Mark Crispin" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Jan 2007, Tam/WB2TT wrote:
Live TV in a car would make sense for sports, though. Since a car antenna
would have less gain than rabit ears, and be close to the ground, it
would be hopeless on a trip.

Cars in Japan with 1seg tuners have to have Space Cadet diversity antennas
to work at all. And remember that this is to get piddly 320x180 video.

And you lose the signal as soon as you get 20 miles from town. Fortunately
Japanese traffic jams mean that that'll take an hour or so.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Also, I bet you lose the signal every time a truck or bus passes between you
and the station. Even on a short trip like New York to Philadelphia, you
would probably get no signal in at least the middle 1/3, because people
there have rooftop antennas (or cable).

Tam

Tam/WB2TT wrote:
"Mark Crispin" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Jan 2007, Tam/WB2TT wrote:
Live TV in a car would make sense for sports, though. Since a car antenna
would have less gain than rabit ears, and be close to the ground, it
would be hopeless on a trip.
Cars in Japan with 1seg tuners have to have Space Cadet diversity antennas
to work at all. And remember that this is to get piddly 320x180 video.

And you lose the signal as soon as you get 20 miles from town. Fortunately
Japanese traffic jams mean that that'll take an hour or so.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Also, I bet you lose the signal every time a truck or bus passes between you
and the station. Even on a short trip like New York to Philadelphia, you
would probably get no signal in at least the middle 1/3, because people
there have rooftop antennas (or cable).

Tam


Not true. It only depends on the design of the broadcast network. If you
have enough signal you will be able to receive the signal anywhere. If
the network provides enough signal between Philly and New York you will
get reception. Diversity in broadcast sites and your receiver helps with
Doppler affects.

If you mean with the current US network design and 8-VSB you can forget it.

In Japan they have not built out their OTA network. They have only added
most of their prefectures in the last few months at low power. In time
they will have a ubiquitous network that will work well mobile or fixed
in most of the country.

The US will have the same with new broadcasters. It is just a shame that
we will go on wasting prime RF real estate on channels 2-51 using the
garbage modulation 8-VSB.

Bob Miller

Bob Miller wrote:
Tam/WB2TT wrote:


Also, I bet you lose the signal every time a truck or bus passes
between you and the station. Even on a short trip like New York to
Philadelphia, you would probably get no signal in at least the middle
1/3, because people there have rooftop antennas (or cable).

Tam

Not true. It only depends on the design of the broadcast network. If you
have enough signal you will be able to receive the signal anywhere. If
the network provides enough signal between Philly and New York you will
get reception. Diversity in broadcast sites and your receiver helps with
Doppler affects.


Bob Miller

Diversity in broadcast sites = repeater stations?

On Sun, 7 Jan 2007, Tam/WB2TT wrote:
Also, I bet you lose the signal every time a truck or bus passes between you
and the station.

As the kids say, "well, duh!" ;-)

Sometimes, the dropouts had no obvious cause. The signal bar just dived
from full bars to zero bars for no apparent reason other than the fact
that we were moving. Then it would go back to full bars.

Even on a short trip like New York to Philadelphia, you
would probably get no signal in at least the middle 1/3, because people
there have rooftop antennas (or cable).

Actually, the situation in Japan is effectively that you would pass
through several markets, each with a different set of stations (hence you
would have to rescan your receiver), on the NYC - Philly trip.

I was able to receive both NYC and Philly analog channels in Middlesex
County, NJ during my childhood in the 1960s. Nothing of the sort would
happen in Japan. Instead, I would have been receiving the New Brunswick
TV channels, which would be different from the Newark TV channels, which
would be different from the NYC TV channels.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.