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Report from Japan: January 2007 update



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 5th 07, 08:17 AM posted to alt.tv.tech.hdtv
Mark Crispin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 322
Default Report from Japan: January 2007 update

I recently travelled to Japan. One of the reasons for my trip was to
investigate, study, and report on the status of digital television in
Japan, including the performance of mobile digital television reception.

I am pleased to report that, contrary to the claims of one "Psycho" Bob
Miller, the Japanese have not repealed the laws of physics.


As part of this effort, I purchased a Sharp PW-TC900 "Papyrus" Japanese
portable digital television (actually, a handheld dictionary/encyclopedia
tool with 1seg capability):

This is a very recent model, released in December 2006, and represents the
state-of-the-art of Japanese mobile television; and more to the point it
represents a substantial improvement over earlier models. I needed a
newer shirt-pocket dictionary tool anyway (mine was over 10 years old), so
this was a no-brainer purchase.

Here is the info about it (in Japanese):
http://www.sharp.co.jp/products/pc_m...900/index.html
What the picture does not show is that there is a rod antenna that needs
to be pulled out and extended in order to watch digital TV. Some more
pictures that show the antenna:
http://www.sharp.co.jp/products/pc_m...00.html#t13707

It fits in a shirt pocket. It's kinda cute. The dictionary/encyclopedia
functions probably aren't useful unless you can read Japanese. I'm using
them a lot.


First some background about Japanese digital television:

Japanese digital television channels use ISDB-T, and are divided into 14
segments. One segment is a guard segment between channels, leaving 13
usable segments. HDTV broadcasts use 12 segments; SD broadcasts use 4
segments. Effectively, the choices for a Japanese broadcaster boil down
to a single HD channel, or 3 SD subchannels. Either way, a single segment
is left over.

That single segment can transmit a 320x240 video image. This is 4:3, so a
widescreen program (which are the overwhelming majority of programs in
Japan) are 320x180. Subtitles are often put in the unused 320x60 viewing
area.

I did not observe any broadcasters using 3 SD subchannels, and I inspected
four different markets. That does not mean that it isn't done; just that
I did not see it. All the broadcasters are primarily in HD, and go to SD
only for old 4:3 programming. Even cartoons are mostly 16:9.

This means that, unlike the USA, there is no way for a broadcaster to have
an HD primary channel and an SD secondary channel.

Japanese broadcast markets are quite small, with seemingly little greater
than a 20 mile radius before all the channels are different. Then again,
unless you're on the expressway at one of the few times when there is no
traffic jam (hah!), you'll probably spend enough time in a market to watch
a complete TV program or two.

There is *no*, nada, zip effort, to produce mobile televisions that
receive the primary HDTV broadcast. Nor does there seem to be any
intention to do such a thing. The idea is that one-seg is the solution
for mobile, and that broadcasters should simulcast HDTV with one-seg.

Rabbit ear antennas are non-existant, even on smaller TVs. It just isn't
possible, neither for analog nor digital. Japanese homes are constructed
to strict building codes with extensive amounts of metal reinforcement.
The Japanese have high and complex TV masts on their roofs that make the
most gonzo US outdoor antenna look puny by comparison. Often, they have a
mast AND cable AND satellite.

I have a 1988 vintage Casio TV-410 handheld analog TV with Japanese
channels. It has an extended rod antenna, much like a 1960s
transistor radio, and indoor reception is extremely spotty.


OK, so how does 1seg do?

320x180 is a small viewing area. Not as small as the 1" analog TV-410,
but still quite small. It can be zoomed to 480x272 on the PW-TC900, but
like most zoomed TV the picture looks ratty. It's still 320x180. After
trying it in both ways I left it at 320x180 since the picture was cleaner
that way.

Indoor reception is just as spotty as with analog. The difference is that
where analog gets snow, 1seg pixelates and drops out, often for seconds at
a time.

Don't believe Psycho Bob's claims that impulse noise isn't a problem. It
is. This isn't as much a problem for the living room HDTV since it's
being fed by a gigantic rooftop antenna and/or cable, but for 1seg it
basically means that the start of any motor causes it to hiccup.

Often the cause is indeterminate. It just suddenly goes from full bars to
zero bars, stays that way for a few seconds, then comes back.


But what about mobile reception?

I spent a considerable amount of time testing reception while riding in
cars, commuter trains, and long-distance trains.

Simply put, it doesn't work.

As commented in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1seg
the signal quality deteriorates quickly when the vehicle is in motion.
We're talking major pixellation and dropouts every few seconds.

An external diversity (Mickey Mouse ears on your car!) antenna helps, but
then it isn't exactly handheld any more.

The Japanese constributor who wrote the above-mentioned Wikipedia article
commented that "the purpose of service is still unclear". This is an
understatement, to say the least.

If you're willing to "assume 1seg viewing position" and hold that
position, you'll get a TV picture and sound.


What about 1seg cell phones?

I'm glad that you asked. I'm a customer of SoftBank in Japan, and I
happen to have their latest catalog in front of me. Out of 23 3G phones,
only two have television capability; one is 1seg and the other is dual
1seg/analog. Two (out of 6) non-3G phones have television capability, and
both are analog-only.

Put another way, 1seg is a fringe part of the cell phone market. 20 out
of the 23 3G phones have GSM roaming capabilities outside of Japan, but
neither of the 3G television phones have it. I consider international
roaming to be quite a bit more important than TV on a phone! Neither of
the 3G TV phones have GPS either.


Conclusion:

ISDB-T is either HD plus 1seg, or up to 3 SD plus 1seg. You can't have an
HD main channel and an SD subchannel as is common in the US.

Rabbit ears and other indoor antennas are generally unsuitable for both
ATSC and ISDB-T.

1seg exists, and it works for some definition of "working". I found that
reception was satisfactory only if I sat down at a location where I got a
good signal. It did not work well in cars or above-ground trains, and it
did not work at all in underground trains.

Japan has very small TV market areas. Just a short distance from Kanazawa
and you're in Toyama with all different channels. Many of these stations
are affiliated with others in other market areas, but the idea of being
able to travel any distance and watch a program from beginning to end is
just not realisitic.

1seg is a toy. It has a very high neat-o factor, but it is a fringe
product and aimed at techies on the fringes who must have the latest toys.
The Japanese are not rushing out to watch TV on 1seg.

Just about everybody has HDTV, though, and has had it for many years
thanks to cable or satellite. Terrestrial digital broadcasts are just
another source.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
  #2  
Old January 5th 07, 10:59 AM posted to alt.tv.tech.hdtv
Mark Crispin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 322
Default Report from Japan: January 2007 update

So remember, whenever Psycho Bob Miller talks about COFDM based digital TV
systems in foreign countries, remember that the laws of physics apply no
matter what: if the input signal suchs badly enough, no modulation can
recover.

Also remember that mobile television is a toy. People are buying HDTV.
They are not buying into mobile.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
  #3  
Old January 5th 07, 04:30 PM posted to alt.tv.tech.hdtv
Agent_C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 512
Default Report from Japan: January 2007 update

On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:17:16 -0800, Mark Crispin
wrote:

[...] "the purpose of service is still unclear". This is an
understatement, to say the least.


Same thought was on the tip of my tongue throughout the entire
article.

Why is this service considered important? Personally, I have
absolutely no desire to watch TV on such a small screen, in public
places, riding on a bus or in a car.

I spend a fair amount of time in the back of NYC cabs, where even if I
try to read, I get dizzy from all the motion. I'm sure it wouldn't be
any different trying to watch TV on a handheld device.

What's the primary application for one of these?

A_C
  #4  
Old January 5th 07, 08:09 PM posted to alt.tv.tech.hdtv
Tam/WB2TT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 362
Default Report from Japan: January 2007 update


"Mark Crispin" wrote in message
da.com...
So remember, whenever Psycho Bob Miller talks about COFDM based digital TV
systems in foreign countries, remember that the laws of physics apply no
matter what: if the input signal suchs badly enough, no modulation can
recover.

Also remember that mobile television is a toy. People are buying HDTV.
They are not buying into mobile.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.


I see mobile HD as something you have in the back seat of a limo, and you
watch it on the way home from the airport. Not a market of any meaningful
size.

OTH, there is mobile non HD TV in the US, supplied by some cellular
providers. This makes more sense, because you are served from the nearest
cell tower. The newest version actually simulate broadcasting, because if 3
people in the same cell watch the same program, they will all be sharing the
same RF channel/time slot. You might say they are put on a party line.

Tam


  #5  
Old January 5th 07, 11:09 PM posted to alt.tv.tech.hdtv
Mark Crispin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 322
Default Report from Japan: January 2007 update

On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Agent_C wrote:
Why is this service considered important? Personally, I have
absolutely no desire to watch TV on such a small screen, in public
places, riding on a bus or in a car.


I think that's the point. Mobile TV is very much a fringe/toy market.

The standard argument made when the skeptics dismiss a new technology is
that historically the skeptics have been wrong about other technologies
that turned out to be so disruptive they completely replaced the previous
technology. Numerous examples abound: trains, automobiles, TV, Internet,
etc.

However, often the skeptics are right; and they have a particularly good
track record when the new technology has a comparable in existing
technology.

In the case of mobile digital TV, the comparable is mobile analog TV.
Mobile analog TV has been around for years. My Casio TV-400 (US channels)
and Casio TV-410 (Japan channels) handheld analog 2" screen TVs are both
1988 products. The form factor is about the same as a 1960's transistor
radio. That technology was essentally perfected at that time; today's $50
handheld analog TVs (sold in blister packs) are largely unchanged.

These handheld analog TVs work fairly well, especially outdoors when
seated someplace. But, other than once or twice when they first buy it,
most people don't use them within a vehicle. You occasionally see someone
at a football game tracking another game with one. I have mine within my
daily bag so I can turn on the TV news in the event of a disaster.

But, for the most part, the fate of a handheld analog TV is to sit
someplace unused, collecting dust.

Those who claim that handheld digital TVs are somehow different mistakenly
believe that the problem is that handheld analog TVs don't work well. The
problem with that assumption is that it's wrong.

With a small screen, analog signal problems (ghosting and snow) are
minimized. Reception that would be unbearable in a large screen is quite
acceptable on a bitty TV. There isn't much of a digital advantage.

However, when we consider signal *disruption*, matters are different.
You may have a burst of video interference, or audio hiss, on analog; but
it is of short duration. In digital, the picture pixellates and freezes,
and the audio goes quiet, for several seconds.

The result is that digital is actually *worse*.

People with satellite radio in their cars know this problem quite well.

I spend a fair amount of time in the back of NYC cabs, where even if I
try to read, I get dizzy from all the motion. I'm sure it wouldn't be
any different trying to watch TV on a handheld device.


As the kids say, "well, duh!"

I found that mobile TV, analog or digital, was utterly impractical in a
car (as a passenger). A train or ferry is a different matter, but it is
rare that train or ferry schedules overlap with TV program schedules; and
for long-distances you'll cross markets.

The necessity to use earphones furthered the inconvenience.

My fellow passengers generally had their eyes glued to their mobile
phones, but they were either texting (mail or SMS) their contacts or
playing games. Nobody was watching TV, even those few who had TV cell
phones.

Most TV cell phones on the market today are analog. SoftBank has one
1seg-only model, one 1seg/analog model, and two analog-only models.
Although the end of analog has been announced, that is outside of the
expected lifetime of today's cell phones. We can probably expect that
1seg will take over.

Nonetheless, TV cell phones are a fringe in the market. Given a choice
between a TV cell phone and one with PIM, GPS, and foreign roaming
capabilities, I would choose the latter. So do most Japanese.

What's the primary application for one of these?


It's a toy.

The ubiquitous (in both US and Japan) seat-mounted DVD player is a much
better choice for entertaining children on long car trips (especially
since there is parental control over the material).

Similarly, a portable DVD player is a much better choice for
self-entertainment on long train travel.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
  #6  
Old January 5th 07, 11:16 PM posted to alt.tv.tech.hdtv
Mark Crispin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 322
Default Report from Japan: January 2007 update

On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Tam/WB2TT wrote:
I see mobile HD as something you have in the back seat of a limo, and you
watch it on the way home from the airport. Not a market of any meaningful
size.


You're mistaken -- 1seg is not HD. 1seg is mobile digital TV, at 320x240
resolution. That isn't HD by anybody's definition.

There is no mobile HD anywhere in the world.

OTH, there is mobile non HD TV in the US, supplied by some cellular
providers.


You meant to say "mobile non-TV video content".

This makes more sense, because you are served from the nearest
cell tower. The newest version actually simulate broadcasting, because if 3
people in the same cell watch the same program, they will all be sharing the
same RF channel/time slot. You might say they are put on a party line.


That's essentially how 1seg works, only it's broadcast on a miniscule
subchannel by TV broadcasters.

I have little doubt that someone will eventually figure out how to
piggyback such a thing on ATSC, just as closed captions and stereo were
piggybacked on NTSC (and color was piggy-backed on the monochrome!).
320x240 isn't that much of a bitstream.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
  #7  
Old January 6th 07, 04:06 AM posted to alt.tv.tech.hdtv
Tam/WB2TT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 362
Default Report from Japan: January 2007 update


"Mark Crispin" wrote in message
nda.com...
On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Tam/WB2TT wrote:
I see mobile HD as something you have in the back seat of a limo, and you
watch it on the way home from the airport. Not a market of any meaningful
size.


You're mistaken -- 1seg is not HD. 1seg is mobile digital TV, at 320x240
resolution. That isn't HD by anybody's definition.


I know that. I was alluding to ideas some people on this newsgroup are
pushing, that ATSC is no good because it won't work mobile. What's the frame
rate on the JA 320x240 ?

Tam
***************************
There is no mobile HD anywhere in the world.

OTH, there is mobile non HD TV in the US, supplied by some cellular
providers.


You meant to say "mobile non-TV video content".

This makes more sense, because you are served from the nearest cell
tower. The newest version actually simulate broadcasting, because if 3
people in the same cell watch the same program, they will all be sharing
the same RF channel/time slot. You might say they are put on a party
line.


That's essentially how 1seg works, only it's broadcast on a miniscule
subchannel by TV broadcasters.

I have little doubt that someone will eventually figure out how to
piggyback such a thing on ATSC, just as closed captions and stereo were
piggybacked on NTSC (and color was piggy-backed on the monochrome!).
320x240 isn't that much of a bitstream.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.



  #8  
Old January 6th 07, 07:13 AM posted to alt.tv.tech.hdtv
Mark Crispin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 322
Default Report from Japan: January 2007 update

On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Tam/WB2TT wrote:
I know that. I was alluding to ideas some people on this newsgroup are
pushing, that ATSC is no good because it won't work mobile. What's the frame
rate on the JA 320x240 ?


I don't know. 1seg seemed a bit jerky to me compared to the HDTV of the
same channel. 1seg's maximum video bitrate is only 128kbit/s. Audio is
64kbit/s, and additional data broadcasting is the remaining 60kbit/s.

Since most Japanese TV programming is 16:9, the video is 320x180 rather
than 320x240.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
  #9  
Old January 6th 07, 05:01 PM posted to alt.tv.tech.hdtv
Tam/WB2TT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 362
Default Report from Japan: January 2007 update

I just saw in today's NY Times, that Verizon is going to announce on 1/7/07
that they will be offering TV to cellphone customers. They mention 8
channels, including NBC,CBS, Fox, MTV, and possibly ESPN. No technical
details in the article.

Tam
************************************************** **************************
"Mark Crispin" wrote in message
anda.com...
On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Tam/WB2TT wrote:
I know that. I was alluding to ideas some people on this newsgroup are
pushing, that ATSC is no good because it won't work mobile. What's the
frame rate on the JA 320x240 ?


I don't know. 1seg seemed a bit jerky to me compared to the HDTV of the
same channel. 1seg's maximum video bitrate is only 128kbit/s. Audio is
64kbit/s, and additional data broadcasting is the remaining 60kbit/s.

Since most Japanese TV programming is 16:9, the video is 320x180 rather
than 320x240.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.



  #10  
Old January 6th 07, 06:35 PM posted to alt.tv.tech.hdtv
Mark Crispin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 322
Default Report from Japan: January 2007 update

On Sat, 6 Jan 2007, Tam/WB2TT wrote:
I just saw in today's NY Times, that Verizon is going to announce on 1/7/07
that they will be offering TV to cellphone customers. They mention 8
channels, including NBC,CBS, Fox, MTV, and possibly ESPN. No technical
details in the article.


This isn't really broadcast TV, but rather video content delivered via
cell phones. As such, you get to pay for the privilege of receiving it.

Those reception fees are one of the reasons why cell phone providers are
interested in television. The other reason is that the mobile phone
market in most countries of the world is saturated; there are no new
customers out there, thus the only way to acquire more customers is to
steal them from the competition. Hence the addition of bells and whistles
to mobile phones.

It's all an attempt to avoid having to compete by lowering prices.

In Japan, a small number of mobile phones have analog and/or 1seg
(digital) TV tuners, so you don't pay reception fees. These phones
typically lack other, more important, features such as GPS or foreign
roaming capabilities.

Of course, the mobile phone providers also have pay video content.
There's a word in Japanese, "pake-shi" ("death by packet") in which your
mobile phone bill is inflated by the equivalent of hundreds of dollars due
to packet charges associated with downloading video content, games,
ringtones, etc.

The Japanese mobile phone providers also get you by disabling the "free"
bells&whistles functions on the phone if you do not have active mobile
phone service. Put another way, you can't watch OTA TV on an OTA TV
equipped mobile phone after you cancel the mobile phone service.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
 




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