Best brand coax and F connector for HD cable?

Belden has been making cables for decades.

Numerous wire manufacturers have been making cable for decades.

Many people know their name and their
reputation, comes about because of all
those decades....

Nah. It's just marketing.

That is their their biggest advantage.

Marketing advantage, yes.

Monster, on the other hand, is, as you wrote, hype. They have nothing on which
to base their claims, yet, because of
marketing, they have a rather large
marketshare...

Actually, Monster has a miniscule portion of the wire and cable market. They do have a large portion of a niche -- premade audio
and video connectors.

However, Monster is not the recommended alternative. There are lots of others, most of whom make excellent cable and few of whom
charge Belden's prices.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================
Bass Home Electronics
941-866-1100
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================

As to how well the foil and braid works; I run the cable through
conduit with the cables for my ham station. They will be running as
much as 1500 watts 1.8 through 50 MHz, a couple hundred watts on 144
MHz and up to 50 watts on the 440 MHz band. I have two cables that
run to remote preamps on UHF antennas at roughly 90 feet and two that
run to the satellite dish at roughly 15 feet. There is no interaction
of leakage between systems.


That's just bad practice. Is that measured, or just observed?



I did a less severe case of this, CATV cable (just the usual stuff from
Radio Shack) routed thru the 2nd floor/ 1st floor ceiling space between
two rafters along with my ham radio HF antenna coax (using thick-net
Eithernet, that's just fancy RG8 with multiple shields, selected used
coax without vampire tap holes) for about 10 feet. No problems
observed. Of course it's better to have more separation than just a few
inches, but I didn't have much choice here.

On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 06:40:42 GMT, lnh wrote:

In article ,
Roger wrote:

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:49:59 -0500, "Robert L Bass"
wrote:

Belden RG-6 is what you want...

*Any* RG6 Quad Shielded cable will do fine. Belden, like Monster, has
marketed their name very well.

Wrong. Belden tests their cables. Monster is hype.

With today's cables using a 100% foil shield, plus a braid there is
little to gained by more layers of braid. Just stick with a name
brand.
Wrong. Here in Houston if you dont use Quad shield you WILL see the
leakage

How can you get better than 100% shielding? The only time *heavier*
shielding would be of help is when there is *substantial* current
flowing in the shield. OTOH if there is substantial current flowing
in the receiving antenna shield something else is seriously wrong.

I use both Greenlee and the
Snap n Seal connectors. They cost a bit more, but are both
mechanically sound and water proof. The old hex crimp are easy to
pull apart. One of these can hold my weight on the cable and in work
clothes I go over 180#.
Well, my hex crimps will hang a TV, so they are fine. I seen enough bad
Snap and Seal connectors that I automatically cut them off and
reterminate.

That certainly has not been my experience.

As to how well the foil and braid works; I run the cable through
conduit with the cables for my ham station. They will be running as
much as 1500 watts 1.8 through 50 MHz, a couple hundred watts on 144
MHz and up to 50 watts on the 440 MHz band. I have two cables that
run to remote preamps on UHF antennas at roughly 90 feet and two that
run to the satellite dish at roughly 15 feet. There is no interaction
of leakage between systems.

That's just bad practice. Is that measured, or just observed?

In reverse order: Part measured with an HP spectrum analyzer,
observing measured data rates, and listening with very sensitive
receivers. In addition I've seen no observable interference on the TV
or heard any on the radio during checks.

As to practice: They are all signal leads (with the exception of the
rotator and remote antenna switch control leads and both are low
voltage) and are according to code. All shields are grounded at the
base of the tower and they are grounded to the tower at the top, or
where the cable starts down the tower in the case of the TV, Dish, and
side mounted antennas. Those shields are again grounded at a bulkhead
where the cables enter the house. Also at that point are a number of
Polyphasers
So to recap, the coax shields are grounded at the top of the tower,
bottom of the tower, and where they enter the house. All leads are the
same length from the tower to the house which minimizes the likelihood
of a voltage build up between them during a lightning strike.

One additional note: All of the radio station coax is 100% foil shield
plus braid as well. All runs are either Times Wire LMR 400 or LMR 600


This is the antenna setup.
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/Tower29.htm
The TV antennas do not show in this photo, but are about where you see
the plate in the tower below my feet. That is shown in the following
photo. The bottom antenna at 100 feet runs about 15,000 watts
effective radiated power on 14, 21, and 28 MHz. Those bands have
harmonics in the low and high VHF TV channels. The long antenna above
that one at 115 feet is for 50 through 54 MHZ which is directly
adjacent to channel 2 with the second harmonic in the 100 to 108 MHz
range. At the top, which is 130 feet are two sets of antennas. The
longer, outside pair run 144 to 148 MHz which is between the low and
high band VHF TV channels. The shorter pair inside those runs on the
440 MHz band. The flexible pig-tails to all these antennas have their
shields grounded about 8 to 10 inches below the top of the tower.

http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/Tower30.htm
My two TV antennas can be seen under the large ham antenna in this
shot. (The one to the NW stands out, you have to really look to see
the one pointed South) Both have remote preamps within about 2 feet of
the antennas. These antennas, with 20 db preamps are in the near field
of all of the ham antennas. This does necessitate filtering the 144 to
148 MHz range as those signals can saturate the preamps when the
antennas are pointed in the same direction as TV antenna pointing to
the left.
The white vertical that is side mounted on the tower (South side) runs
both the 144 and 440 MHz bands. That antenna runs about 6 db gain or
an effective radiated power on the 144 MHz band of about 200 watts.
The top of said antenna is about 20 feet below the TV antennas.
Another vertical like the one shown is going to be mounted, upside
down directly under the one in the photo. They will be end to end with
the second one being used for data and a link through the Internet to
other ham gateways.

The satellite dish does not show in either photo, but is on the same
side of the tower as the white vertical and about level with the roof
line. I'll eventually get this photo updated.

Behind the black C-band dish is a smaller tower with a 7 through 50
MHz vertical on the West end of the shop. There is a crossed, folded
dipole (which doesn't show) right at the base of the vertical for the
HD TV tuner in the shop computer.

http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/boat6.htm

This station, computer, and amplifier have been completely reorganized
since the photo was shot. All of the cables with the exception of the
CAT5e run through the conduit shown. The CAT5e runs through the wall
behind the equipment at floor level and then underground through
conduit.

The old antique station has been rebuilt with the exception of the
transmitter. It is capable of running the legal power limit. There is
a much smaller transceiver that drives an old Henry 2K4 amp (not
shown) that I normally use.

Although the station sounds elaborate, most of the equipment was
purchased used (some like the 2K4 had to be rebuilt to work) and I did
all of the tower work myself.

There is a substantial buried ground system that has 32 or 33 (lost
count) ground rods CadWelded(TM) to the cables tying everything
together into what is called a single point ground system or as near
so as possible.
..

In addition I run a CAT5e cable with a gigabit network between 5 and
10 feet from and parallel to those cables

That's not good practice, either.

It meets code and works well. Besides to get that 130 foot run from
the house to the shop leaves little in the way of alternatives. My
only real concern for the Gigabit network is lightning as the tower
has taken an average of 3 visually confirmed direct hits a year since
it was installed. It took five hits this past summer I'd go wireless
but it's just too slow for the amount of traffic I put on the network.
I was operating this computer when the last strike occurred (Wireless
keyboard and mouse). All 4 computers on the network were up and
running and I had a large file transfer going between the computer to
my right and the one in the shop. When the lightning hit the lights
blinked, the UPSs squealed, the network went down, right back up, and
continued the file transfer.

BTW with that many visually confirmed hits I wonder how many times it
actually gets hit.

The point behind all of his is: Proper termination and grounding along
with good coax allow this system to work well in an environment far
more severe/hostile than most will ever experience.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 08:42:30 -0700, Ed Nielsen
wrote:

snip

multiples of his frequency (harmonics). The first harmonic of the CB
band is 54MHz, right in broadcast TV channel 2. Roger could transmit on
that very same frequency and nobody would ever know it.

Thanks for the boost and fortunately channel 2 is not used around
here. The problem with operating on the 50 to 54 MHz band, which I do,
is TV sets are poorly shielded and the front ends are highly
susceptible to overload. Hence 50 to 54 is not heavily used in channel
2 fringe areas:-))

Also, because of his grounding system (much better than a 4' copper rod
stuck in the ground), anything that hops onto any of his shields goes
right to earth before it can go anywhere else.

As I said in another post, my cables (receiving and transmitting) are
grounded at the top of the tower, the base of the tower, and where
they enter the house. The ground system consists of either 32 or 33
eight foot ground rods, CadWelded (TM) to over 600 feet of cable that
ties the whole works together.


CIAO!

Ed N.

73 :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger wrote in
:

Top posted for brevity

You must be the god of w_tom !!!! (Some of you may know.)





It meets code and works well. Besides to get that 130 foot run from
the house to the shop leaves little in the way of alternatives. My
only real concern for the Gigabit network is lightning as the tower
has taken an average of 3 visually confirmed direct hits a year since
it was installed. It took five hits this past summer I'd go wireless
but it's just too slow for the amount of traffic I put on the network.
I was operating this computer when the last strike occurred (Wireless
keyboard and mouse). All 4 computers on the network were up and
running and I had a large file transfer going between the computer to
my right and the one in the shop. When the lightning hit the lights
blinked, the UPSs squealed, the network went down, right back up, and
continued the file transfer.

BTW with that many visually confirmed hits I wonder how many times it
actually gets hit.

The point behind all of his is: Proper termination and grounding along
with good coax allow this system to work well in an environment far
more severe/hostile than most will ever experience.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Wed, 3 Jan 2007 01:02:40 +0100 (CET), DanS
wrote:

Roger wrote in
:

Top posted for brevity

You must be the god of w_tom !!!! (Some of you may know.)


Eh??



Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Don't get w_tom started!!!


CIAO!

Ed N.

DanS wrote:
Roger wrote in
:

Top posted for brevity

You must be the god of w_tom !!!! (Some of you may know.)




It meets code and works well. Besides to get that 130 foot run from
the house to the shop leaves little in the way of alternatives. My
only real concern for the Gigabit network is lightning as the tower
has taken an average of 3 visually confirmed direct hits a year since
it was installed. It took five hits this past summer I'd go wireless
but it's just too slow for the amount of traffic I put on the network.
I was operating this computer when the last strike occurred (Wireless
keyboard and mouse). All 4 computers on the network were up and
running and I had a large file transfer going between the computer to
my right and the one in the shop. When the lightning hit the lights
blinked, the UPSs squealed, the network went down, right back up, and
continued the file transfer.

BTW with that many visually confirmed hits I wonder how many times it
actually gets hit.

The point behind all of his is: Proper termination and grounding along
with good coax allow this system to work well in an environment far
more severe/hostile than most will ever experience.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not a big Belden fan. Largely for the reason
you touched on in your last sentence. They want too much for their
product which, according to spec sheets on cables I deal with the most,
is no better than other major manufacturers. In some cases, worse.

Their standard RG 6 compared with Genesis, for example; At the low end,
Genesis loses more than Belden. At about 70MHz, they even out, and
above that Genesis has Belden beat. However, the capacitance is greater
and the VP is lower.


CIAO!

Ed N.

Robert L Bass wrote:
Belden has been making cables for decades.

Numerous wire manufacturers have been making cable for decades.

Many people know their name and their
reputation, comes about because of all
those decades....

Nah. It's just marketing.

That is their their biggest advantage.

Marketing advantage, yes.

Monster, on the other hand, is, as you wrote, hype. They have nothing on which
to base their claims, yet, because of
marketing, they have a rather large
marketshare...

Actually, Monster has a miniscule portion of the wire and cable market. They do have a large portion of a niche -- premade audio
and video connectors.

However, Monster is not the recommended alternative. There are lots of others, most of whom make excellent cable and few of whom
charge Belden's prices.

In article ,
Lewis Gardner wrote:

lnh wrote:

Wrong. Here in Houston if you dont use Quad shield you WILL see the
leakage

Is there something special about Houston?

I doubt it.


Exactly. Nothing special, but experience here shows quad is better. Even
the incredibly cheap cable company was forced to use it

Quad shield is a waste of time and money over good quality foil and
braid cables like Belden duofoil.


Your opinion. And that would be an expensive mistake here. Just ask the
electrical contractors who used the wrong cable. And do a little
research about cable companies that are fined for leakage by the FCC.


I use both Greenlee and the
Snap n Seal connectors. They cost a bit more, but are both
mechanically sound and water proof. The old hex crimp are easy to
pull apart. One of these can hold my weight on the cable and in work
clothes I go over 180#.

Well, my hex crimps will hang a TV, so they are fine. I seen enough bad
Snap and Seal connectors that I automatically cut them off and
reterminate.

My experience over thousands of F connectors is the exact opposite.

Please post a link to a bad SNS connector. I have yet to see one when
installed to specification.


At my the shop we have a wall of shame, and it has both types. My point
is neither is perfect, and both can be badly installed by dweebs. Since
the new rage is snap n seal connectors installed by the untrained, they
are usually defective. When you do this for a living, you learn what
will save time.

And snap and seals are not inherently water proof.


As to how well the foil and braid works; I run the cable through
conduit with the cables for my ham station. They will be running as
much as 1500 watts 1.8 through 50 MHz, a couple hundred watts on 144
MHz and up to 50 watts on the 440 MHz band. I have two cables that
run to remote preamps on UHF antennas at roughly 90 feet and two that
run to the satellite dish at roughly 15 feet. There is no interaction
of leakage between systems.


That's just bad practice. Is that measured, or just observed?

It isn't bad practice for his application. You obviously have not been
around many ham shacks.

So you recommend doing this, and everybody who reads this on the
internet should follow his methods? I don't.

Since he is running both TX and RX through the conduit and has some nice
receivers he would be aware of signal leakage.

The point is that in a much more extreme RF environment foil and braid
cables work fine.


Again, he is lucky, and use of those cables here (and elsewhere) WILL
result in VISIBLE leakage.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Who to believe?

I don't care who you believe.

A licensed Radio Amateur with actual RF experience or some no-name that
can "see" signal leakage and prefers a termination technology that is no
longer used in the industry.

Yeah, I've only been doing installs for 30 years, so what do I know? I
know what I have been trained on and what are best practices. Lots of
things will work, but that is not what I will recommend.

I think I'll stick with Mr. Halstead.

O.K.

"lnh" wrote in message
...

Your opinion. And that would be an expensive mistake here. Just ask the
electrical contractors who used the wrong cable. And do a little
research about cable companies that are fined for leakage by the FCC.

So tell us about it. Where can we find info about these fines?

Leonard

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