Public misunderstanding of DTT

"Ivan" wrote in message
.uk...
Alan wrote:
In message , Ivan
wrote


This complete lack of foresight means that there are now possibly
millions of TV's and recorders that have been sold over the last few
years which are now going to be totally useless without some kind of
add on digital adaptor, not to mention all of those analogue flat
screen TV's and DVD recorders that are selling like hot cakes!

I think you miss the point - there are currently at least four
different methods of providing digital TV in the UK. If all TVs had
to support all of them the old couple in Bill's original posting
would not have been to buy a TV for anything like £86. There is also
a good chance that some first generation Freeview box will stop
working when analogue is finally switched off.

You're no doubt thinking of some early On-digital receivers with 2K chip
sets, as far as I'm aware I don't think that applies to any Freeview
receivers.

As for the £86 price tag, I expect that by now the price would have still
been an 'affordable' sub £100 for TV incorporating a digital tuner... and
after all that's what the customer wanted and expected!

Then that is what they should have asked for!

I do not expect a convergence of hardware in one TV set...I should prefer
the option of buying items separately.


If I understand you correctly you're saying is that is not a problem that
thousands (if not millions) of flat-panel TV's,

The point of that apostrophe is not pluralisation, so what is it there for?

DVD recorders, and VCRs

Using your logic, why do the words 'recorders' and 'VCRs' not similarly (and
wrongly) have apostrophes?

have
been sold without digital tuners?

I know lots of people with analogue DVD recorders and VCRs who are going
to
have a rude awakening in a couple of years' time when they attempt to do a
series of timed recording from an add on digital adaptor!

What problem(s)? I have been recording from my Philips DTT decoder to my
analogue only VCR for years without any tears!


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MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella

"tim....." wrote in message
...

"Ivan" wrote in message
.uk...
Alan wrote:
In message , Ivan
wrote


This complete lack of foresight means that there are now possibly
millions of TV's and recorders that have been sold over the last few
years which are now going to be totally useless without some kind of
add on digital adaptor, not to mention all of those analogue flat
screen TV's and DVD recorders that are selling like hot cakes!

I think you miss the point - there are currently at least four
different methods of providing digital TV in the UK. If all TVs had
to support all of them the old couple in Bill's original posting
would not have been to buy a TV for anything like £86. There is also
a good chance that some first generation Freeview box will stop
working when analogue is finally switched off.

You're no doubt thinking of some early On-digital receivers with 2K chip
sets, as far as I'm aware I don't think that applies to any Freeview
receivers.

As for the £86 price tag, I expect that by now the price would have
still
been an 'affordable' sub £100 for TV incorporating a digital tuner...
and
after all that's what the customer wanted and expected!

I've no doubt that it is technically possible.

No wonder, it is perfectly normal and fairly simple to record from a DTT box
to a VCR.


However comercially, TV manufacturers don't think like this.

Thank goodness for that!


If they have a new feature that they want to sell, they only
put it in high spec expensive TV's

What is the function of that apostrophe?

that they make more profit
on.

Your evidence for this assertion?


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MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella

What is this saying?
That even a screen used to display CCTV cannot be sold unless it has a DTT
tuner?

Good point! Heh-heh!

Yes, of course, after all people may wish for a monitor and not a
television.


By all means label the equipment as requiring additional apparatus to
receive TV
programming after analogue switch-off, but please, don't make it mandatory
to have
a tuner built in that might be inappropriate for ones situation.

Alleluja, brother, I am with you all the way on this.


Lots of people have DSat or CATV as their sole broadcast source.
And, while some STB's

The spostrophe is there for which purpose?

still come with modulators, an analouge tuner will
continue
to be a usful way to recieve a signal from a STB in another room even
after
switch-
off.

Yep.


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MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella

"Nick Austin" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 20:28:12 GMT, "Ivan"
wrote:


I posted this a few days ago on another group discussing the same topic.

Why didn't our govenment mandate several years ago (as in the US) when
they
announced the digital changeover.

I though that something similar did happen about five+ years ago.
The government consulted with several manufacturers and it was
agreed that all digital TV equipment would prominently carry the
"DVB" logo. The government would do it's bit by funding an
information campaign to promote the "DVB" logo.

Guess what happened?

Exactly that! Equipment able to receive DTT usually states so in very large
letters!

However, the OP was about an analogue only TV which did not state that it
was not DTT capable.


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MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella

"Dave Farrance" wrote in message
news
Nick Austin wrote:

I though that something similar did happen about five+ years ago.
The government consulted with several manufacturers and it was
agreed that all digital TV equipment would prominently carry the
"DVB" logo. The government would do it's bit by funding an
information campaign to promote the "DVB" logo.

Guess what happened?

I've got a 32" Sony IDTV.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/images/B0000W5DP0

Below the main body of the set is a little black plastic strip, just
visible in the above photo, for holding the on/off button and a few
other controls. On that is the DVB logo in dark grey text and it's 3mm
high - I've just measured it with a ruler.


Yes, perhaps so, but the box it came in probably stated it in much, much
larger lettering, and the shop display model probably stated it on the
screen or on some advertising nearby.


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MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella

Of course, the
proportion of the public that know that "Digital" and "Freeview" mean
the same thing WHEN ON A TV STICKER is questionable.

'Digital' and 'Freeview' are, of course, not synonymous terms!


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MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella

"John Porcella" wrote in message
...
The spostrophe is there for which purpose?


John, have you been at the Christmas Spirits?

Bill

John Porcella wrote:

The spostrophe is there for which purpose?

What's a spostrophe?

"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
...
In article , tim.....
writes

"Ivan" wrote in message
o.uk...

Why didn't our govenment mandate several years ago (as in the US) when
they
announced the digital changeover.

Because the EU free trading rules won't let them.

If someone manufactures a product for sale in one EU
country they MUST be allowed to sell that product in all
EU countries if they wish.

That is complete ******** that this useless government have

'has' NOT "have"! That is "complete ********"!!



In fact, the legislation for digital compatibility already exists -
there is a requirement for products to be fit for purpose and, since a
schedule to transition to digital has been announced, 'fitness for
purpose' should include digital compatibility as soon as that schedule
starts, which is already the case.

This is your assertion and belief, but not legally so.

However, no TV to my knowledge that is commonly sold could not be made to
receive DTT using an appropriate DTT decoder box.


STB availability doesn't change the
requirement for a basic TV sold in the UK to be capable of receiving TV
in the format it is transmitted in the UK

....which, of course, is principally via analogue, not digital.

otherwise, after analogue
switch-off, it does not conform to the common definition of a TELEVISION
as understood by the majority of the population.

Rubbish! The TVs can be adapted easily and cheaply enough.


So, under *EXISTING* UK law, it can be argued that analogue only TVs are
probably already illegal

There is no case law and neither will there ever be in all likelihood.

and certainly will be so in just over a year,
and not fit for purpose, being unable to receive TV signals as broadcast
in some areas of the country.

The VAST majority of the country receives analogue TV broadcasts.


Of course, even existing law is only useful if enforced,

The law has to be enacted and interpreted. You are putting an
interpretration into "fit for purpose" which is not there for the courts.

which would
carry the prospect of the CEOs of major High St chains being awarded
fines and prison sentences instead of peerages,

Dream on!

so you won't see Blair's
Bozos acting on their obligations any time soon and incompatible TVs
will continue to be sold for years to come

"Incompatible" in which ways?


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MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella

"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
...
In article , charles
writes
In article ,
Kennedy McEwen wrote:
In article , tim.....
writes

"Ivan" wrote in message
o.uk...

Why didn't our govenment mandate several years ago (as in the US)
when
they
announced the digital changeover.

Because the EU free trading rules won't let them.

If someone manufactures a product for sale in one EU
country they MUST be allowed to sell that product in all
EU countries if they wish.

That is complete ******** that this useless government have been hiding
behind for years. If that was the case, then the shops would be
swamped
with cheap TVs from the EU that couldn't decode PAL and/or audio at
all!
They aren't because UK legislation requires all sets to be compatible
with UK analogue signals and NOTHING prevents them from applyying that
legislation to be compatible with UK digital signals.

Rubbish. There is no legislation to that effect. Consumer protection
laws
require goods "to be fit for the purpose" - that is all.

Obviously not rubbish since you are saying exactly the same thing!

Yes, obvious rubbish. They are being sold as being able to receive pictures
from a distance, which they do with appropriate equipment (aerial(s)) and
electricity. Or are you suggesting that since TVs usually do not come with
an in-built aerial and electrical supply they are not "fit for purpose".


People are looking for *specific* legislation addressing TV/broadcast
compatibility

Which "people" are you referring to?

and the government are

No, not "are".

hiding behind EU rulings that
prevent such legislation when, in fact, neither are necessary because
consumer protection *LEGISLATION* already requires TVs to be "fit for
purpose".

....which of course they are!

When only digital transmission is available in an area then
an analogue TV ceases to be "fit for purpose" of being a "television"!

Does that mean that when I can no longer buy standard definition DVDs for my
ancient DVD player, that I can sue because it is no longer fit for purpose?
Of course, not!


The government could, and should, enforce the *existing* legislation -

The government should do no such thing as the legistation is not interpreted
the way that you suggest.

but they won't,

Thank goodness!


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MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella