HD not driving HDTV set sales

I have said that OTA DTV is not driving HDTV set sales though that was
one of the biggest and in reality was the biggest reason the US could
NOT consider a different modulation in 2000 or even in 1998.

HD content on OTA was supposed to drive HDTV set sales. Any delay would
hurt the CEA manufacturers who stood to make billions from high mark-up
HDTV sets. CEA manufacturers were in control of the process of picking
our new digital modulation since broadcasters had abdicated the
process.

Well it seems that HD is not even driving the sale of HDTV sets.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/hdwatching121006.htm

And the numbers would seem to be about to get worse than the pathetic
40-50% of HDTV owners who have an HD service of any kind.

Since....

"And, perhaps worse, the research firm said only 25 percent of current
HDTV shoppers said the main reason they wanted to buy one was to watch
high-def."

Only 25%.

And what percentage of those will go to the trouble of hooking up or
installing a roof top antenna. What percentage of that 25% even have a
clue about OTA???

OTA lies dieing on the street and everyone just walks by.

Bob Miller

And what percentage of those will go to the trouble of hooking up or
installing a roof top antenna. What percentage of that 25% even have a
clue about OTA???


I have satellite and OTA, and three friends of mine have OTA only, not due
to lack of availability, but they
distrust the CATV industry and don't want to pay for TV programming. We are
the exception in the area.

Get a clue this article is based on Frank N. Magid Associates survey
released in September 2005.

Quote
Released in September 2005, the study was based off of an online survey of
1200 people aged 21 and older from the general population.

http://tv.about.com/od/hdtv/a/HDTVeducation.htm

Old news let's hear about a study that up to date. I suspect this year has
changed these figures vastly.


wrote in message
oups.com...
I have said that OTA DTV is not driving HDTV set sales though that was
one of the biggest and in reality was the biggest reason the US could
NOT consider a different modulation in 2000 or even in 1998.

HD content on OTA was supposed to drive HDTV set sales. Any delay would
hurt the CEA manufacturers who stood to make billions from high mark-up
HDTV sets. CEA manufacturers were in control of the process of picking
our new digital modulation since broadcasters had abdicated the
process.

Well it seems that HD is not even driving the sale of HDTV sets.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/hdwatching121006.htm

And the numbers would seem to be about to get worse than the pathetic
40-50% of HDTV owners who have an HD service of any kind.

Since....

"And, perhaps worse, the research firm said only 25 percent of current
HDTV shoppers said the main reason they wanted to buy one was to watch
high-def."

Only 25%.

And what percentage of those will go to the trouble of hooking up or
installing a roof top antenna. What percentage of that 25% even have a
clue about OTA???

OTA lies dieing on the street and everyone just walks by.

Bob Miller

go into any Wal Mart -

not a single set being demonstrated using HD - all hooked up to a 50
dollar DVD player with "Clone Wars" playing.


"jolt" wrote:

Get a clue this article is based on Frank N. Magid Associates survey
released in September 2005.

Quote
Released in September 2005, the study was based off of an online survey of
1200 people aged 21 and older from the general population.

http://tv.about.com/od/hdtv/a/HDTVeducation.htm

Old news let's hear about a study that up to date. I suspect this year has
changed these figures vastly.


wrote in message
roups.com...
I have said that OTA DTV is not driving HDTV set sales though that was
one of the biggest and in reality was the biggest reason the US could
NOT consider a different modulation in 2000 or even in 1998.

HD content on OTA was supposed to drive HDTV set sales. Any delay would
hurt the CEA manufacturers who stood to make billions from high mark-up
HDTV sets. CEA manufacturers were in control of the process of picking
our new digital modulation since broadcasters had abdicated the
process.

Well it seems that HD is not even driving the sale of HDTV sets.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/hdwatching121006.htm

And the numbers would seem to be about to get worse than the pathetic
40-50% of HDTV owners who have an HD service of any kind.

Since....

"And, perhaps worse, the research firm said only 25 percent of current
HDTV shoppers said the main reason they wanted to buy one was to watch
high-def."

Only 25%.

And what percentage of those will go to the trouble of hooking up or
installing a roof top antenna. What percentage of that 25% even have a
clue about OTA???

OTA lies dieing on the street and everyone just walks by.

Bob Miller

Thanks for the update on how Wally world markets HD sets. Not that it means
anything.

But still the article he referenced relies on out of date surveys. And while
your world may revolve around Wal-Mart, the same it not true for everyone.

common_ wrote in message
...
go into any Wal Mart -

not a single set being demonstrated using HD - all hooked up to a 50
dollar DVD player with "Clone Wars" playing.


"jolt" wrote:

Get a clue this article is based on Frank N. Magid Associates survey
released in September 2005.

Quote
Released in September 2005, the study was based off of an online survey of
1200 people aged 21 and older from the general population.

http://tv.about.com/od/hdtv/a/HDTVeducation.htm

Old news let's hear about a study that up to date. I suspect this year has
changed these figures vastly.


wrote in message
groups.com...
I have said that OTA DTV is not driving HDTV set sales though that was
one of the biggest and in reality was the biggest reason the US could
NOT consider a different modulation in 2000 or even in 1998.

HD content on OTA was supposed to drive HDTV set sales. Any delay would
hurt the CEA manufacturers who stood to make billions from high mark-up
HDTV sets. CEA manufacturers were in control of the process of picking
our new digital modulation since broadcasters had abdicated the
process.

Well it seems that HD is not even driving the sale of HDTV sets.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/hdwatching121006.htm

And the numbers would seem to be about to get worse than the pathetic
40-50% of HDTV owners who have an HD service of any kind.

Since....

"And, perhaps worse, the research firm said only 25 percent of current
HDTV shoppers said the main reason they wanted to buy one was to watch
high-def."

Only 25%.

And what percentage of those will go to the trouble of hooking up or
installing a roof top antenna. What percentage of that 25% even have a
clue about OTA???

OTA lies dieing on the street and everyone just walks by.

Bob Miller

jolt wrote:
Get a clue this article is based on Frank N. Magid Associates survey
released in September 2005.

Quote
Released in September 2005, the study was based off of an online survey of
1200 people aged 21 and older from the general population.

http://tv.about.com/od/hdtv/a/HDTVeducation.htm

Old news let's hear about a study that up to date. I suspect this year has
changed these figures vastly.

Here is a clue. Broadcast and Engineering talking to In-Stat senior
analyst Mike Paxton says there's a wide gulf between the number of
U.S. TV homes with HDTVs and those actually receiving HD programs via
broadcast, cable, satellite or other means.

http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv...ce-fewer-hdtv/

Good enough for you? This is from a top firm and from last week.

Interesting that he has a number for OTA HDTV viewers. He says 19% of
the 9.8 million US households, that actually receive HDTV from any HD
service, receive OTA. That comes to a paltry 1.86 million of 110
million households or 1.69 percent.

And even that number he thinks is bolstered by early adopters who went
with OTA becasue there was little to no cable or satellite HD. Those
OTA viewers are apt to or have gone to Cable or satellite. They may
still have OTA because they have to for local channels but how many
digital OTA viewers rely on OTA?

Maybe .01% IMO.

Anybody have a better number?

What will the number be after analog turnoff?

Free OTA TV/DTV is dead. The vultures are circling. They will set down
for lunch soon after the analog turn off.

Bob Miller


wrote in message
oups.com...
I have said that OTA DTV is not driving HDTV set sales though that was
one of the biggest and in reality was the biggest reason the US could
NOT consider a different modulation in 2000 or even in 1998.

HD content on OTA was supposed to drive HDTV set sales. Any delay would
hurt the CEA manufacturers who stood to make billions from high mark-up
HDTV sets. CEA manufacturers were in control of the process of picking
our new digital modulation since broadcasters had abdicated the
process.

Well it seems that HD is not even driving the sale of HDTV sets.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/hdwatching121006.htm

And the numbers would seem to be about to get worse than the pathetic
40-50% of HDTV owners who have an HD service of any kind.

Since....

"And, perhaps worse, the research firm said only 25 percent of current
HDTV shoppers said the main reason they wanted to buy one was to watch
high-def."

Only 25%.

And what percentage of those will go to the trouble of hooking up or
installing a roof top antenna. What percentage of that 25% even have a
clue about OTA???

OTA lies dieing on the street and everyone just walks by.

Bob Miller

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:47:21 -0800, robmxa wrote:

Free OTA TV/DTV is dead. The vultures are circling. They will set down
for lunch soon after the analog turn off.

So you're saying that after spending billions of dollars nationwide by tv
stations to upgrade to digital HD broadcasting equipment, that when they
can no longer use there old ntsc transmitters, they will also turn off
their new digital transmitters and close up shop.

Or as a second scenario, they will encrypt their broadcast thus requiring
everyone that wants it to have a STB for every station they want to watch.
Don't know wbout you, but I don't have room for 10 STB's around my TV's.
That's how many digital stations I watch. There's about 5-10 more I don't
even tune into. Like most things you post, there's just no way this will
happen. Anbd to try and push this just shows how ****ing stupid you are.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

Wes Newell wrote:
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:47:21 -0800, robmxa wrote:

Free OTA TV/DTV is dead. The vultures are circling. They will set down
for lunch soon after the analog turn off.

So you're saying that after spending billions of dollars nationwide by tv
stations to upgrade to digital HD broadcasting equipment, that when they
can no longer use there old ntsc transmitters, they will also turn off
their new digital transmitters and close up shop.

First no broadcaster spent, nor did the industry as a whole spend
billions on DTV OTA because they thought they would make money doing
so. They spent the money and they spend the money each month paying
their very large UHF transmitter electric bill for ONE REASON ONLY.

Because if they didn't they would lose their must carry and potentially
multicast must carry rights on cable. If broadcasters could today turn
off their DTV OTA transmitters most would just to save the electric
bills. To hell with the sunk cost for going on the air with digital.
That is lost anyway. Why go on losing more by paying electric bills for
transmitters no one is watching.

In Canada, a very similar market and one also afflicted with 8-VSB,
broadcasters are petitioning their government to LET THEM TURN OFF MOST
of their transmitters and not even fire up their digital transmitters
because NO ONE is watching and they don't want to waste the money.

Or as a second scenario, they will encrypt their broadcast thus requiring
everyone that wants it to have a STB for every station they want to watch.
Don't know wbout you, but I don't have room for 10 STB's around my TV's.
That's how many digital stations I watch. There's about 5-10 more I don't
even tune into. Like most things you post, there's just no way this will
happen. Anbd to try and push this just shows how ****ing stupid you are.

No broadcasters could offer one STB that works for all stations. That
is what is being done in other countries. In fact they may not need
encryption since free OTA DTV is a possibility. Multiple free channels
relying on advertising. It is working in the UK. Pay channels on
satellite in the UK are abandoning satellite to offer their content on
Freeview since Freeview is groing incredibly fast and they can make
more money on advertising only with Freeview than they can make on
satellite with subscriber fees.

How can you say the death of free OTA DTVt won't happen? There used to
be TV stations above channel 69. Where did they go? Channels 52 through
69 are now on the auction block and 54, 55 and 59 have already been
sold.

The former Chairman of the FCC said about channels 2-51 in reference to
how few households still rely on OTA for TV, "What are we protecting?"

After the coming fiasco called the US DTV transition the numbers of OTA
dependent viewers will be less than ONE%. Broadcasters will not want to
go on paying humongous electric bills and Congress is going to want to
get the billions they can from an auction of channels 2-51.

The only thing to work out it how to give broadcasters must carry on
cable or even multicast must carry on cable with out the fig leaf of
their being broadcasters anymore.

There are billions to be made from auctions without passing a tax for
Congress and billions to be saved by broadcasters in electric bills..
It will get done.

The other option though is that they change modulations, then
broadcasters have business case for staying on the air with their
multicasting.

Bob Miller


--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:02:51 -0800, robmxa wrote:


Wes Newell wrote:
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:47:21 -0800, robmxa wrote:

Free OTA TV/DTV is dead. The vultures are circling. They will set
down for lunch soon after the analog turn off.

So you're saying that after spending billions of dollars nationwide by
tv stations to upgrade to digital HD broadcasting equipment, that when
they can no longer use there old ntsc transmitters, they will also turn
off their new digital transmitters and close up shop.

First no broadcaster spent, nor did the industry as a whole spend
billions on DTV OTA because they thought they would make money doing so.
They spent the money and they spend the money each month paying their
very large UHF transmitter electric bill for ONE REASON ONLY.

Because if they didn't they would lose their must carry and potentially
multicast must carry rights on cable. If broadcasters could today turn
off their DTV OTA transmitters most would just to save the electric
bills. To hell with the sunk cost for going on the air with digital.
That is lost anyway. Why go on losing more by paying electric bills for
transmitters no one is watching.

And they will turn off the NTSC transmitters when it dies. They won't turn
off the ATSC transmitters. AN they dodn't do it to keep the license. They
do it to make money, just like any other business.

In Canada, a very similar market and one also afflicted with 8-VSB,
broadcasters are petitioning their government to LET THEM TURN OFF MOST
of their transmitters and not even fire up their digital transmitters
because NO ONE is watching and they don't want to waste the money.

That's BS. A few have not wanted to use HD. ANd 8-VSB doesn't have a damn
thing to do with it. When are you going to realize that 8-VSB is here to
stay and all your bitching and fud isn't going to make it go away. You're
just wasting time spreading crap.

Or as a second scenario, they will encrypt their broadcast thus
requiring everyone that wants it to have a STB for every station they
want to watch. Don't know wbout you, but I don't have room for 10 STB's
around my TV's. That's how many digital stations I watch. There's about
5-10 more I don't even tune into. Like most things you post, there's
just no way this will happen. Anbd to try and push this just shows how
****ing stupid you are.

No broadcasters could offer one STB that works for all stations. That is
what is being done in other countries. In fact they may not need
encryption since free OTA DTV is a possibility. Multiple free channels
relying on advertising. It is working in the UK.

And it's been working here for over 50 years. And it will continue to work
for 50 more.

How can you say the death of free OTA DTVt won't happen?

How can you say it will when there is absolutely no indication that it
will? It's here now and has been for years. That's a plus on my side. Now
name just one free OTA station that has changed to pay tv? Haven't been
any that I've heard of. I not seen a single report or rumor that any will.
Just nuts like you and no_sense.

There used to be TV stations above channel 69. Where did they go?
Channels 52 through 69 are now on the auction block and 54, 55 and 59
have already been sold.

Who cares. That leaves at least 40. I can't think of any market around
with 40 different stations. And with ATSC that can be up to 200 SD
broadcast, or 40 HD and 80 SD, maybe more. The point is, even with the
lost channels, there's more individual channels using sub-channels than
there ever was with NTSC.

The former Chairman of the FCC said about channels 2-51 in reference to
how few households still rely on OTA for TV, "What are we protecting?"

Wolf, wolf, wolf.....

After the coming fiasco called the US DTV transition the numbers of OTA
dependent viewers will be less than ONE%. Broadcasters will not want to
go on paying humongous electric bills and Congress is going to want to
get the billions they can from an auction of channels 2-51.

ROFLMAO. You are desperate aren't you.

The other option though is that they change modulations, then
broadcasters have business case for staying on the air with their
multicasting.

Yep. Same old BS. Give it up 8-VSB is here to stay fro years. You and I
will both be dead before it's replaced.:-)

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

Wes Newell wrote:
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:02:51 -0800, robmxa wrote:


Wes Newell wrote:
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:47:21 -0800, robmxa wrote:

Free OTA TV/DTV is dead. The vultures are circling. They will set
down for lunch soon after the analog turn off.

So you're saying that after spending billions of dollars nationwide by
tv stations to upgrade to digital HD broadcasting equipment, that when
they can no longer use there old ntsc transmitters, they will also turn
off their new digital transmitters and close up shop.

First no broadcaster spent, nor did the industry as a whole spend
billions on DTV OTA because they thought they would make money doing so.
They spent the money and they spend the money each month paying their
very large UHF transmitter electric bill for ONE REASON ONLY.

Because if they didn't they would lose their must carry and potentially
multicast must carry rights on cable. If broadcasters could today turn
off their DTV OTA transmitters most would just to save the electric
bills. To hell with the sunk cost for going on the air with digital.
That is lost anyway. Why go on losing more by paying electric bills for
transmitters no one is watching.

And they will turn off the NTSC transmitters when it dies. They won't turn
off the ATSC transmitters. AN they dodn't do it to keep the license. They
do it to make money, just like any other business.

Maybe you could elaborate on this. How do you expect them to make money
or even be able to cover the cost of the electricity they spend on OTA
when less than ONE% of homes rely on OTA broadcasting.

In Canada, a very similar market and one also afflicted with 8-VSB,
broadcasters are petitioning their government to LET THEM TURN OFF MOST
of their transmitters and not even fire up their digital transmitters
because NO ONE is watching and they don't want to waste the money.

That's BS. A few have not wanted to use HD. ANd 8-VSB doesn't have a damn
thing to do with it. When are you going to realize that 8-VSB is here to
stay and all your bitching and fud isn't going to make it go away. You're
just wasting time spreading crap.

No most of them today and even 3 years ago when I was in Toronto
working with them want nothing to do with OTA broadcasting using 8-VSB.
Much rather turn off their transmitters. They are talking in Canada of
just giving back their spectrum for free to the Government.

Or as a second scenario, they will encrypt their broadcast thus
requiring everyone that wants it to have a STB for every station they
want to watch. Don't know wbout you, but I don't have room for 10 STB's
around my TV's. That's how many digital stations I watch. There's about
5-10 more I don't even tune into. Like most things you post, there's
just no way this will happen. Anbd to try and push this just shows how
****ing stupid you are.

No broadcasters could offer one STB that works for all stations. That is
what is being done in other countries. In fact they may not need
encryption since free OTA DTV is a possibility. Multiple free channels
relying on advertising. It is working in the UK.

And it's been working here for over 50 years. And it will continue to work
for 50 more.


How can you say the death of free OTA DTVt won't happen?

How can you say it will when there is absolutely no indication that it
will? It's here now and has been for years. That's a plus on my side. Now
name just one free OTA station that has changed to pay tv? Haven't been
any that I've heard of. I not seen a single report or rumor that any will.
Just nuts like you and no_sense.

Fox Television Stations, Inc., Hearst-Argyle Television, Inc., LIN TV
Corp., McGraw Hill Broadcasting, Morgan Murphy Stations, and Telcom
DTV, LLC. invested in USDTV. USDTV currently serves subscribers in
Dallas/Fort Worth, Salt Lake City, Albuquerque, and Las Vegas.

USDTV uses digital spectrum leased from broadcasters in these cities.
They then deliver 30 program channels in that leased spectrum for a
subscription fee. USDTV plans on coming to a city near you soon. They
will lease more spectrum there.

Quite a bit of spectrum, channels 2-51, is already being used for a pay
service in the US. A lot more will be if they can get 8-VSB to work a
bit better.

The only reason broadcasters have not done more of this is because of
8-VSB. If it worked most of the OTA spectrum would be used this way
today.

But I think it is too late. 8-VSB will not work better in time if at
all and OTA will die within five years of the digital transition if not
sooner.

There used to be TV stations above channel 69. Where did they go?
Channels 52 through 69 are now on the auction block and 54, 55 and 59
have already been sold.

Who cares. That leaves at least 40. I can't think of any market around
with 40 different stations. And with ATSC that can be up to 200 SD
broadcast, or 40 HD and 80 SD, maybe more. The point is, even with the
lost channels, there's more individual channels using sub-channels than
there ever was with NTSC.

I can't think of any market around that has 40 channels either
including any market in the US.

The former Chairman of the FCC said about channels 2-51 in reference to
how few households still rely on OTA for TV, "What are we protecting?"

Wolf, wolf, wolf.....

Sounds like your getting desperate to think of an answer.

After the coming fiasco called the US DTV transition the numbers of OTA
dependent viewers will be less than ONE%. Broadcasters will not want to
go on paying humongous electric bills and Congress is going to want to
get the billions they can from an auction of channels 2-51.

ROFLMAO. You are desperate aren't you.

Another non desperate answer.

The other option though is that they change modulations, then
broadcasters have business case for staying on the air with their
multicasting.

Yep. Same old BS. Give it up 8-VSB is here to stay fro years. You and I
will both be dead before it's replaced.:-)

Another desperate non answer. That all you got?

Bob Miller