Why are ATSC tuners so rare

Right now ATSC tuners are mandated for TV's over 25" but not for TV's
under 25". I was in Best Buy and I didn't see any TV under 25" that
had an ATSC tuner in it. Before they were mandated for large TV's
(Mar-2006), they were tough to find in those TV's too.

Is an ATSC tuner simply not needed by the masses? Am I the only
cheapskate with OTA television? One TV salesman told me that largt
TV's went up in wholesale price by about $40 after ATSC tuners were
required. Is $40 that much to add to a TV?

NadCixelsyd wrote:
Right now ATSC tuners are mandated for TV's over 25" but not for TV's
under 25". I was in Best Buy and I didn't see any TV under 25" that
had an ATSC tuner in it. Before they were mandated for large TV's
(Mar-2006), they were tough to find in those TV's too.

Is an ATSC tuner simply not needed by the masses? Am I the only
cheapskate with OTA television? One TV salesman told me that largt
TV's went up in wholesale price by about $40 after ATSC tuners were
required. Is $40 that much to add to a TV?

That is why Congress had to mandate ATSC tuners in TV sets. Few
companies were/are making them, few retailers stocked/stock any while a
few stocked one or so. Nobody was/is advertising them.

You will only find tuners where they are mandated, in DTV sets above
25". The mandate was about freeing the spectrum above channel 51 for
sale at auction it had nothing to do with furthering the DTV transition.

The FCC and Congress have written off OTA and are just waiting for the
appropriate moment to begin proceedings to sell off the rest of the OTA
spectrum below channel 51.

The appropriate moment may come when they own up to the real numbers of
users still use OTA after analog is turned off in 2009.

That number will be somewhere between the number of OTA DTV users today,
2% or less and the number of OTA analog users today, 7% or less. I think
it will come to rest near 4% max.

Couple that dismal number with the US developed modulation DMB-TH being
used by the Chinese and demonstrated at the 2008 Olympics and overlay
the utter screaming disaster that will occur in early 2009 when the
still small group of OTA users find that OTA digital is a problem where
they live.

Enter the astute politician and auctions.

Bye Bye free OTA.

Bob Miller

"NadCixelsyd" wrote in message
s.com...
Right now ATSC tuners are mandated for TV's over 25" but not for TV's
under 25". I was in Best Buy and I didn't see any TV under 25" that
had an ATSC tuner in it. Before they were mandated for large TV's
(Mar-2006), they were tough to find in those TV's too.

Is an ATSC tuner simply not needed by the masses? Am I the only
cheapskate with OTA television? One TV salesman told me that largt
TV's went up in wholesale price by about $40 after ATSC tuners were
required. Is $40 that much to add to a TV?

Best Buy has a number of 25" and smaller TV's with ATSC tuners.
They are marked "SDTV".

And any big TV marked HDTV (but not "HD-Ready" or "HDTV Monitor") has an
ATSC tuner as well.

If you want to watch over the air TV past 2009, you will need a new SDTV,
HDTV, or a converter box. Converters are available now for about $200 or
will be available via the US gov't with a taxpayer subsidy for about $40 in
2008.

R Sweeney wrote:
"NadCixelsyd" wrote in message
s.com...
Right now ATSC tuners are mandated for TV's over 25" but not for TV's
under 25". I was in Best Buy and I didn't see any TV under 25" that
had an ATSC tuner in it. Before they were mandated for large TV's
(Mar-2006), they were tough to find in those TV's too.

Is an ATSC tuner simply not needed by the masses? Am I the only
cheapskate with OTA television? One TV salesman told me that largt
TV's went up in wholesale price by about $40 after ATSC tuners were
required. Is $40 that much to add to a TV?

Best Buy has a number of 25" and smaller TV's with ATSC tuners.
They are marked "SDTV".

And any big TV marked HDTV (but not "HD-Ready" or "HDTV Monitor") has an
ATSC tuner as well.

If you want to watch over the air TV past 2009, you will need a new SDTV,
HDTV, or a converter box. Converters are available now for about $200 or
will be available via the US gov't with a taxpayer subsidy for about $40 in
2008.



Not for $40 but with a taxpayer subsidy "of $40". The price of the
converter is unknown. Manufacturers have mentioned $50 and $60 and $75.
But that may be for a large quantity bought by an entity like Congress
and delivered on the Potomac. It may not include any marketing, a return
policy, room for a markup for a retail store and all the other things
that go into a retail price.

More likely they will come with NO bells and whistles, (no on or off
LED? even) as the law seems to stipulate. Price will likely be $100 or
more and Congress will chip in the $40 rebate making the cheapest $60.

Congress will probably have to spend another $100 per box, out of the
taxpayers pocket, to make it happen. Education, return coverage, help desk.

If they farm it out to Haliburton then the extra cost per box will be $1000.

Bob Miller

On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 11:33:55 -0800, NadCixelsyd wrote:

Right now ATSC tuners are mandated for TV's over 25" but not for TV's
under 25". I was in Best Buy and I didn't see any TV under 25" that
had an ATSC tuner in it. Before they were mandated for large TV's
(Mar-2006), they were tough to find in those TV's too.

In March of 2007, all TV's large and small must have an ATSC tuner buiilt
in. There are already some smaller LCD sets with built in digital tuner,
but not many yet. More and more will appear over the next few months.

Is an ATSC tuner simply not needed by the masses?

Nothing is really needed. You can just use a monitor if you have an
external video source.

Am I the only cheapskate with OTA television?

Not by a long shot. That's all I've ever had. No cable or sat ever in 60
years. I did switch to digital over a year ago though. I don't even use
NTSC any longer.

One TV salesman told me that largt TV's went up in wholesale price by
about $40 after ATSC tuners were required. Is $40 that much to add to
a TV?

It doesn't cost $40. The extra tuner cost about $5. You may notice $10-20
difference in prices when they first come out. That extra cost will go
away over time as they drop the NTSC tuners in them. You can buy a 32"
SDTV with digital tuner for $276 at Walmart. ATSC STB's are a lot more
expensive since the whole box has to be built. And you don't need an HDTV
to take advantage of an HDTV program.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
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On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 20:13:09 +0000, Bob Miller wrote:

That number will be somewhere between the number of OTA DTV users today,
2% or less and the number of OTA analog users today, 7% or less. I think
it will come to rest near 4% max.

I'm really getting sick of your fud. Close to 100% of TV watches watch OTA
Network broadcast. That they get it via cable, sat, or antenna means
nothing.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

Wes Newell wrote:
On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 20:13:09 +0000, Bob Miller wrote:

That number will be somewhere between the number of OTA DTV users today,
2% or less and the number of OTA analog users today, 7% or less. I think
it will come to rest near 4% max.

I'm really getting sick of your fud. Close to 100% of TV watches watch OTA
Network broadcast. That they get it via cable, sat, or antenna means
nothing.

Well lets say that 100% of TV viewers get their OTA network broadcast
from cable or sat.

Then the only use of the most valuable spectrum the public owns, beach
front property it has been called, is being used to deliver content to
cable and satellite headends from content providers.

This could be accomplished by fiber, copper or microwave link and is
already done in very many cases. The OTA link being only a requirement
of the law.

That is a broadcaster to qualify for must carry must show that they can
deliver a signal from their transmitter site to the cable companies
headend via OTA.

After proving that this is possible many broadcasters then actually
deliver via copper, fiber or microwave.

I think that the public and Congress would disagree with you that this
means nothing. What it means is that this spectrum is being wasted and
might as well be sold.

The actual "nothing" that you speak of might mean $100 billion to the US
treasury.

Bob Miller

In article m,
"NadCixelsyd" wrote:

Right now ATSC tuners are mandated for TV's over 25" but not for TV's
under 25". I was in Best Buy and I didn't see any TV under 25" that
had an ATSC tuner in it. Before they were mandated for large TV's
(Mar-2006), they were tough to find in those TV's too.

Is an ATSC tuner simply not needed by the masses? Am I the only
cheapskate with OTA television? One TV salesman told me that largt
TV's went up in wholesale price by about $40 after ATSC tuners were
required. Is $40 that much to add to a TV?

As someone else has said, there are a few, but they are marked "SDTV".
HD resolution just isn't that useful on a small screen unless you view
it at a very short distance, like a computer monitor, and then it would
require higher cost display for the higher resolution.

Standalone STB tuners are rare because they can't sell you a
subscription to satellite TV and make a spiff off it. And perhaps
because the kind of people who want HD right now generally already have
or want satellite or cable TV.

I have DirecTV and an OTA roof antenna. The cable and satellite signal
providers do not provide ALL the sub channels available via OTA and it is a
significant amount of local programming, even after factoring out the junk
content.

You are not the only one using OTA.

Steve

One thing is for su There is going to be an enormous amount of confusion
that will probably last for years.

Analog TV (is)was fairly simple for most people to use.

Didgital technologies are far more complicated and the flat screen
technologies have their own complextivity. Many "HD" TV's do not work well
moving between analog(4x3) and didgital (16x9) format shows but some do
better than others.

Most people now use cable, Sat. or some other indirect way of reception and
thats probably is going to continue. In most areas, people who now are
able to receive with "rabbit ear" inside antennas will have to have an
external outdoor antenna or watch their shows become "pixalated" which in my
view is worse then "snow".





"Steve Stone" wrote in message
...
I have DirecTV and an OTA roof antenna. The cable and satellite signal
providers do not provide ALL the sub channels available via OTA and it is a
significant amount of local programming, even after factoring out the junk
content.

You are not the only one using OTA.

Steve