Whats Really Holding HD Back? 3

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 16:48:41 GMT, "Gonzo" wrote:

common_ wrote in message
...
Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:52:53 GMT, common_ wrote:


It would be very nice if it remains free,,

Lots of things would be nice if they were free,,

Facts are though,,its not going to be free after 2009....

Please elaborate on that....

Charlie Hoffpauir
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/


Basic business economics,,,

Its already happening - the networks are selling their HD feeds to the
cable and sat companies. The are not investing millions to send out
OTA free HD to maybe a 5 percent market share.

HD will become part of the "premium" package, on the "pay" feeds that
over 85 percent of the present TV market receives their TV from.

Only a minute percent of the viewing audience cares a rats AH about HD
- and those will pay to see it.

Ah OK. Nope, I think you are way off base and ill informed.
Now I understand why somebody accused you of trolling.

Simply put: The #1 selling point for HDTVs is OTA HD so you have your
numbers backwards.

What you are forgetting is that The Government mandates OTA HD as a
stipulation to have those channels. So NO, they can't sell their HD feeds
to cable because they do not own it. The Amercian public own them.


Where do you get that idea? The American public owns the airwaves.
NOT the content that is sent over them.
IIRC the American people have spoken to Congress and told them we are tired
of the cable and satellite monopoly so the Feds are finally taking action.
This is similar to the anti-monopoly busting that went on at the turn of the
century IIRC.


That' simply a lie. The majority of people get all f their tv on
cable or satellite and do not care about OTA.

What the Feds are saying is if the networks want Channels for HDTV, then the
price to pay is to provide free OTA HD Content to the public. It's either
that or they can remain SD and become extinct.

The feds say no such thing. You really like to make **** up.
Thumper

"Gonzo" wrote:

Destroying the Constitution from within!
"Bob Miller" wrote in message
link.net...
Gonzo wrote:
"Charlie Hoffpauir" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:25:56 GMT, Bob Miller wrote:

snip
Does that mean that 15 million sets were sold to watch DVDs?
Maybe it means that 15 million HD sets were sold to people who are
waiting for more content on OTA or cable or satellite.

Since we know that 15 million HDTV set owners have not even bothered to
hook up an antenna for OTA and that most of the remaining 10 million
have HD from satellite or cable that few, possibly very few have OTA
HDTV.

And that even fewer RELY on OTA HDTV.

And that VERY few bought their HDTV because they could not wait to get
home to hook up OTA DTV.

The fact is that the Consumer Electronics Manufacturers made a bad call
and crippled OTA with a garbage modulation for short term profits and
that OTA contributed virtually nothing to those profits.

snip

I can't see how you get your data. I have OTA HDTV, and I love it. Am
I the "only" one who bought a HDTV and receives his content OTA? I
seriously doubt it.

Charlie Hoffpauir
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/

Same here Charlie,

He forgot to add:

OTA HDTV FOR FREE!!!!!!

The "Free" part is important and a big reason many of us purchased HDTV
in the first place.
To tell the cable and satellite companies AMF!

The word "Free" is a powerful word. Remember when television content
was free? You didn't get a little bill in the mail saying "pay me $50"
each month.

HDTV has the promise of the best of both worlds. Clear modern HD
entertainment and news combined with the free broadcasting of the
pre-Cable monopoly days.

I still think it's possible although the fat cats will fight to keep
their control over the market.
They are winning at the moment. Cable and satellite companies tell
broadcasters not to promote OTA. CEA companies saddle the US with the
worst modulation in the world and then laugh at the broadcasters who now
see what a pickle they are in. Laugh is exactly the correct term. Don't
believe me ask your local broadcaster.

Broadcasters now want to charge cable and satellite companies for their
FREE OTA content. Would lots of people abandoning cable for OTA make them
happy under these circumstances? How? Every new f**k cable OTA customer is
one subscriber fee less for broadcasters.

The guardians of free OTA TV that we gave spectrum to for free. Who you
Congress critter gave Must Carry to for nothing is not a good shepherd of
your sacred free OTA TV.

Americans have been trained to pay twice for cable content. Once in
subscriber fees and once with advertising. Now broadcasters want in on the
action.

Are OTA broadcasters interested in killing the golden goose by promoting
OTA broadcasting? No. They want just enough economically challenged (read
poor people) to use OTA so that it stays alive and they can keep their
MUST CARRY license.

And then they want to collect subscriber fees for each cable and satellite
subscriber who gets their free OTA content via cable and satellite.

Take away broadcasters Must Carry privileges and you will have a screaming
kicking mass of broadcasters demanding a better modulation and codec for
the US.

More likely Congress scr**s broadcasters and lets OTA continue its slow
downward spiral before calling in the spectrum and selling it to some
other entity that will use it with better modulations and codecs.

After all Congress is scr**ing broadcasters with unlicensed use of their
spectrum by smart radios and by allowing such things as broadband over
power lines which will both cause interference to broadcasters.

Every action Congress has taken for years signals their intent to do away
with OTA broadcasting.

Soon after the analog shutdown and shortly after the feeding frenzy by
cable and satellite over the remaining 13% of viewers who rely on OTA for
their TV someone in Congress is going to notice that the percentage of
viewers that still depend on OTA has shrunk to something under 7% or so.

It won't??? Tell me more. How can it not? Analog shutdown will bring a
host of programs by cable and satellite to get the last remaining holdouts
to buy into cable and satellite.

They will have a major ally in 8-VSB. Million of people who rely on OTA
will find out the problems of OTA with cheap converter boxes and no
rooftop antennas. They will not know what hit them. They will scream in
pain which will attract the interest of politicians.

OTA will die.

Bob Miller

Bob Miller

Wrong.

Since everybody here claims to have a crystal ball, let me make my own
prediction.

What is going to happen is that the market will dictate that OTA HD will
rule the day. All parties involved will realize that their payware customer
base is shrinking and that they will need to move to an OTA HD advertisement
based system ASAP or risk going under.

IOW, THE PEOPLE will decide and let the almighty cable and sattelite
monopoly crush themselves with their own weight.

What the Cable and Satellite companies seem to be forgetting is that their
customer base is basically a slave base. We use Cable and Sattelite now
becase WE DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE. We are literally a "Captive Audience".

With the lowering of prices on HD Tuners and TV Sets this will change things
in a major way. The networks that see the writing on the wall will be the
ones that will survive.

Truse me though, there will be lots of network executives and cable company
employees out of work in the next 10 years or so. It will be painfull for
them.


You are simply living in some induced "dream state" if you believe
that.

85 percent or more already watch the networks on cable or sat..not
OTA.

Jeff Shoaf wrote:

common_ wrote:
wrote:

Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:52:53 GMT, common_ wrote:

It would be very nice if it remains free,,

Lots of things would be nice if they were free,,

Facts are though,,its not going to be free after 2009....
Please elaborate on that....

Charlie Hoffpauir
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/
Please Charlie, don't feed the troll!

Chip

--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB

Please post your evidence to the contrary,,,

Not you personal "hobbyist" opinion,,the factual hard data.

That's just silly - there is no "factual hard data" on the state of
anything after 2009.


Its called the capitalist business model,,,

Google it...

wrote:

Bob Miller wrote:

They can charge for programming delivered with OTA spectrum.

So by what mechanism over analog off air?

Are you saying that digital OTA can be
'controlled"..... but analog OTA can not due to tech
natures?

They will charge the cable and sat companies to carry the HD versions
of their content. OTA you will get a free SD version (all they need to
do to satisfy their license requirements). Probably with a little
scroll at the bottom of the screen - "to enjoy the full HD version of
this program contact XYZ company"

No other economic model makes sense, you can already see this
happening with the NGC , Discovery, History, and HBO, Showtime,,,all
have HD versions on Sat and Cable that cost more.

wrote:
Bob Miller wrote:

They can charge for programming delivered with OTA spectrum.

So by what mechanism over analog off air?

Are you saying that digital OTA can be
'controlled"..... but analog OTA can not due to tech
natures?


There were subscription services with analog TV.

Two reasons they failed were reception problems compared to cable and
the lack of spectrum to provide the same number of channels as cable or
satellite.

Digital addresses both of those problems. Unfortunately our 8-VSB does
not solve the reception problems like other modulations do and our
choice of codecs, while much better than the one channel one program of
analog, is not as good as MPEG4 AVC which can do at least twice the
content as MPEG2 and most likely will do far more as it matures.

Bob Miller

"Bob Miller" wrote in message
ink.net...
Gonzo wrote:
common_ wrote in message
...
"Gonzo" wrote:

"Charlie Hoffpauir" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:25:56 GMT, Bob Miller wrote:

snip
Does that mean that 15 million sets were sold to watch DVDs?
Maybe it means that 15 million HD sets were sold to people who are
waiting for more content on OTA or cable or satellite.

Since we know that 15 million HDTV set owners have not even bothered
to
hook up an antenna for OTA and that most of the remaining 10 million
have HD from satellite or cable that few, possibly very few have OTA
HDTV.

And that even fewer RELY on OTA HDTV.

And that VERY few bought their HDTV because they could not wait to
get
home to hook up OTA DTV.

The fact is that the Consumer Electronics Manufacturers made a bad
call
and crippled OTA with a garbage modulation for short term profits and
that OTA contributed virtually nothing to those profits.

snip

I can't see how you get your data. I have OTA HDTV, and I love it. Am
I the "only" one who bought a HDTV and receives his content OTA? I
seriously doubt it.

Charlie Hoffpauir
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/
Same here Charlie,

He forgot to add:

OTA HDTV FOR FREE!!!!!!

The "Free" part is important and a big reason many of us purchased HDTV
in
the first place.
To tell the cable and satellite companies AMF!

The word "Free" is a powerful word. Remember when television content
was
free? You didn't get a little bill in the mail saying "pay me $50"
each
month.

HDTV has the promise of the best of both worlds. Clear modern HD
entertainment and news combined with the free broadcasting of the
pre-Cable
monopoly days.

I still think it's possible although the fat cats will fight to keep
their
control over the market.


It would be very nice if it remains free,,

Lots of things would be nice if they were free,,

Facts are though,,its not going to be free after 2009....

Why is that? I though the whole IDEA behind OTA HD is to bring back free
programming per the Feds?
The "Feds" only require that a broadcaster deliver ONE SD (standard
definition) program for free in their 6 MHz DTV channel. There is NO
requirement for HD. They can do whatever they want with the rest of the
channel.

If they are careful and only deliver a talking head in B&W or a weather
and traffic update screen, they can minimize the bits they waste on this
required SD MPEG2 program and deliver HD or SD for cash using MPEG4.
Something all current receivers can't handle.

The whole idea behind the DTV transition is to give the broadcasters as
much room to make money with the free spectrum we gave them while letting
Congress sell off as many TV channel, 52 thru 69, for as much cash as
possible. Congress really likes money they can get that they don't have to
pass tax increases for.

HD was the promise that the broadcasters and Congress used to sell the rip
off to you and me.

In the meantime broadcasters have spent most of their time and money
working feverishly to get must carry of MULTICAST mandated by the FCC or
passed as law by Congress.

Right now they are losing that fight. But it should instruct us that
broadcasters are VERY interested in delivering something other than HD
with their 6 MHz channels.

Why else are they so intensely lobbying for it? Why is this their main
focus?

For their new fight for MULTICAST must carry they have changed their
strategy. They have renamed it to the "anti stripping" agenda.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0082/t.473.html

Read it and weep.

Do a Goggle on the subject and weep some more.

Maybe that will work. But it all points to more programs and less
resolution, read less HDTV.

Bob Miller

You just don't like people in general do you Bob?

What exactly is your motivation?

Do you own stock in cable?

common_ wrote in message
...
wrote:

Bob Miller wrote:

They can charge for programming delivered with OTA spectrum.

So by what mechanism over analog off air?

Are you saying that digital OTA can be
'controlled"..... but analog OTA can not due to tech
natures?

They will charge the cable and sat companies to carry the HD versions
of their content. OTA you will get a free SD version (all they need to
do to satisfy their license requirements). Probably with a little
scroll at the bottom of the screen - "to enjoy the full HD version of
this program contact XYZ company"

No other economic model makes sense, you can already see this
happening with the NGC , Discovery, History, and HBO, Showtime,,,all
have HD versions on Sat and Cable that cost more.

Well if it doesn't hit my antenna and my HD Tuner for free in HD I will not
be interested.

The mold is already set and many of us (me included) are already enjoying
FREE HD OTA Content.

If the broadcasters have no interest in me then they can pass me by as well
as the other millions of OTA HD Tuners owners out there.

Ill watch the grass grow before I spend one red cent on HD OTA or Cable
content after I retire.

There is an old saying: Money Talks, Bull**** Walks.

The cable company is in for a rude awakening IMO.

"Thumper" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 16:48:41 GMT, "Gonzo" wrote:

common_ wrote in message
...
Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:52:53 GMT, common_ wrote:


It would be very nice if it remains free,,

Lots of things would be nice if they were free,,

Facts are though,,its not going to be free after 2009....

Please elaborate on that....

Charlie Hoffpauir
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/


Basic business economics,,,

Its already happening - the networks are selling their HD feeds to the
cable and sat companies. The are not investing millions to send out
OTA free HD to maybe a 5 percent market share.

HD will become part of the "premium" package, on the "pay" feeds that
over 85 percent of the present TV market receives their TV from.

Only a minute percent of the viewing audience cares a rats AH about HD
- and those will pay to see it.

Ah OK. Nope, I think you are way off base and ill informed.
Now I understand why somebody accused you of trolling.

Simply put: The #1 selling point for HDTVs is OTA HD so you have your
numbers backwards.

What you are forgetting is that The Government mandates OTA HD as a
stipulation to have those channels. So NO, they can't sell their HD feeds
to cable because they do not own it. The Amercian public own them.


Where do you get that idea? The American public owns the airwaves.
NOT the content that is sent over them.
IIRC the American people have spoken to Congress and told them we are
tired
of the cable and satellite monopoly so the Feds are finally taking action.
This is similar to the anti-monopoly busting that went on at the turn of
the
century IIRC.


That' simply a lie. The majority of people get all f their tv on
cable or satellite and do not care about OTA.

No they get it from Cable because THEY HAVE NO CHOICE.

You are just one more pretentious peckerhead with an opinion. Nothing more.

What the Feds are saying is if the networks want Channels for HDTV, then
the
price to pay is to provide free OTA HD Content to the public. It's either
that or they can remain SD and become extinct.

The feds say no such thing. You really like to make **** up.
Thumper

They you are a dumbass. Honestly, you were here four months ago talking
**** out of your ass to me. Do you have a life or what? Do you live in
this newsgroup?

For your sake, I hope the cable companies PAY YOU to live in this newsgroup
because if not they you are one pretty pathetic animal. Let me help you...

Ill give you some good heartfelt advice:

Turn off you computer and your cable box.
Take a shower.
Put on clean clothes.
Go outside.
Walk or drive to different places of social interaction.
Make REAL friends.

"Gonzo" wrote:

"Thumper" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 16:48:41 GMT, "Gonzo" wrote:

common_ wrote in message
...
Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:

On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:52:53 GMT, common_ wrote:


It would be very nice if it remains free,,

Lots of things would be nice if they were free,,

Facts are though,,its not going to be free after 2009....

Please elaborate on that....

Charlie Hoffpauir
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/


Basic business economics,,,

Its already happening - the networks are selling their HD feeds to the
cable and sat companies. The are not investing millions to send out
OTA free HD to maybe a 5 percent market share.

HD will become part of the "premium" package, on the "pay" feeds that
over 85 percent of the present TV market receives their TV from.

Only a minute percent of the viewing audience cares a rats AH about HD
- and those will pay to see it.

Ah OK. Nope, I think you are way off base and ill informed.
Now I understand why somebody accused you of trolling.

Simply put: The #1 selling point for HDTVs is OTA HD so you have your
numbers backwards.

What you are forgetting is that The Government mandates OTA HD as a
stipulation to have those channels. So NO, they can't sell their HD feeds
to cable because they do not own it. The Amercian public own them.


Where do you get that idea? The American public owns the airwaves.
NOT the content that is sent over them.
IIRC the American people have spoken to Congress and told them we are
tired
of the cable and satellite monopoly so the Feds are finally taking action.
This is similar to the anti-monopoly busting that went on at the turn of
the
century IIRC.


That' simply a lie. The majority of people get all f their tv on
cable or satellite and do not care about OTA.

No they get it from Cable because THEY HAVE NO CHOICE.

You are just one more pretentious peckerhead with an opinion. Nothing more.

What the Feds are saying is if the networks want Channels for HDTV, then
the
price to pay is to provide free OTA HD Content to the public. It's either
that or they can remain SD and become extinct.

The feds say no such thing. You really like to make **** up.
Thumper

They you are a dumbass. Honestly, you were here four months ago talking
**** out of your ass to me. Do you have a life or what? Do you live in
this newsgroup?

For your sake, I hope the cable companies PAY YOU to live in this newsgroup
because if not they you are one pretty pathetic animal. Let me help you...

Ill give you some good heartfelt advice:

Turn off you computer and your cable box.
Take a shower.
Put on clean clothes.
Go outside.
Walk or drive to different places of social interaction.
Make REAL friends.



is the above any better proof that he is a MORON or what,,???

"Gonzo" wrote:

common_ wrote in message
...
wrote:

Bob Miller wrote:

They can charge for programming delivered with OTA spectrum.

So by what mechanism over analog off air?

Are you saying that digital OTA can be
'controlled"..... but analog OTA can not due to tech
natures?

They will charge the cable and sat companies to carry the HD versions
of their content. OTA you will get a free SD version (all they need to
do to satisfy their license requirements). Probably with a little
scroll at the bottom of the screen - "to enjoy the full HD version of
this program contact XYZ company"

No other economic model makes sense, you can already see this
happening with the NGC , Discovery, History, and HBO, Showtime,,,all
have HD versions on Sat and Cable that cost more.

Well if it doesn't hit my antenna and my HD Tuner for free in HD I will not
be interested.

The mold is already set and many of us (me included) are already enjoying
FREE HD OTA Content.

If the broadcasters have no interest in me then they can pass me by as well
as the other millions of OTA HD Tuners owners out there.

Ill watch the grass grow before I spend one red cent on HD OTA or Cable
content after I retire.

There is an old saying: Money Talks, Bull**** Walks.

The cable company is in for a rude awakening IMO.


your opinion is way beyond humble,,,,

its stupid,,,

so do not watch TV,,and make the networks, cable , and Sat companies
mad,,,,LOL

They will really sweat over your .01 percent market share.