HDMI cable costs

JPG wrote:
These people remind me of those sad individuals who enter the X-Factor
and think they can sing. They are totally deluded. Does it not occur
to them that the last 3 feet of £1500 silver cable is preceded by
possibly a 100 miles of aluminium and copper cable, solder joints,
screw terminals, circuit breakers, fuses, transformers, noisy, crappy
environments, underground, covered in rat turds, strung between
pylons, and finally wired into your house by a Latvian electrician.

FFS, what are these people on?

As a veteran of a number of debates on this subject over the years, I still
don't know the answer to that. It's very much like arguments about religion
(another belief system that mystifies me). The True Believer cannot have his
faith shaken, no matter how much you argue with him. And just as religious
believers range from people with a simple, unquestioning faith to
sophisticated apologists, so too do cable believers. The latter would argue
that the little piece of expensive power cable on the end is acting as a
*filter*, and removing some kind of unspecified (and currently unmeasurable)
badness that would otherwise muddy the bass / collapse the sound stage /
(insert audiphile verbiage of your choice).

Of course, cable faith differs from most religions (I exclude Scientology,
obviously) in that the believer often has a financial as well as an
emotional investment in his faith. It can be hard to let that go. Besides,
if they say they are happy with their purchases, who are we to disagree? All
we can really do is feel smug that we can achieve the same satisfaction for
a fraction of the price, and try to stop them winning new converts.

"Pyriform" wrote in message
...
JPG wrote:
These people remind me of those sad individuals who enter the X-Factor
and think they can sing. They are totally deluded. Does it not occur
to them that the last 3 feet of £1500 silver cable is preceded by
possibly a 100 miles of aluminium and copper cable, solder joints,
screw terminals, circuit breakers, fuses, transformers, noisy, crappy
environments, underground, covered in rat turds, strung between
pylons, and finally wired into your house by a Latvian electrician.

FFS, what are these people on?

As a veteran of a number of debates on this subject over the years, I
still don't know the answer to that. It's very much like arguments about
religion (another belief system that mystifies me). The True Believer
cannot have his faith shaken, no matter how much you argue with him. And
just as religious believers range from people with a simple, unquestioning
faith to sophisticated apologists, so too do cable believers. The latter
would argue that the little piece of expensive power cable on the end is
acting as a *filter*, and removing some kind of unspecified (and currently
unmeasurable) badness that would otherwise muddy the bass / collapse the
sound stage / (insert audiphile verbiage of your choice).

Of course, cable faith differs from most religions (I exclude Scientology,
obviously) in that the believer often has a financial as well as an
emotional investment in his faith. It can be hard to let that go. Besides,
if they say they are happy with their purchases, who are we to disagree?
All we can really do is feel smug that we can achieve the same
satisfaction for a fraction of the price, and try to stop them winning new
converts.

Getting back to the original point of the topic, I take it that the
consensus of opinion here is that a 7 quid HDMI cable will do then ;-)

Chas

"Chas Gill" wrote:

Getting back to the original point of the topic, I take it that the
consensus of opinion here is that a 7 quid HDMI cable will do then ;-)

It should do. There's no reason that a good HDMI cable can't be made for
£7. None of the preceding comments in this thread should be taken to
imply that totally crap cables don't exist, of course. If it doesn't
work or creates "sparklies", then that should be obvious immediately, so
you can take it back, or if that's too much bother then you've only lost
£7.

--
Dave Farrance

Dave Farrance wrote:
"JohnT" wrote:

And I see that "Russ Andrews" quote a "What Hi-Fi" review. :-D

Heh, I'd love to see the charlatan "Russ Andrews" hauled up on BBC
Watchdog one day. Or someone disclose his client list so that those who
gain personal income at the tax payers expense can be persuaded to get
better value for their money, do things morally for the better, or take
a pay cut. Besides, it would be good for a laugh - I forsee a lot of
celebrity/media people being on his books.

Owning nice things is fine and some high earners do deserve that, but
being outrageously stupid is something that further down the line we all
pay for.


What Hi-Fi have been in the business of promoting mystique rather than
accuracy for a long time, so I guess that they aren't about to let the
realities of digital interfacing stop them. After all, their reviews
always have been self-evident nonsense to those with any technical
knowledge, and they've never cared about that before so I don't imagine
that they will now.


Haymarket publishing. Don't go anywhere near them. Customers actually
pay these con merchants to get suckered in by the adverts.....

--
Adrian C

In message , Adrian C
writes

Haymarket publishing. Don't go anywhere near them. Customers actually
pay these con merchants to get suckered in by the adverts.....

I've an idea that this is Michael Heseltine's house.

In article , Peter
wrote:


Well I have to admit to having some admiration for a man/company that
can part money from fools as I'm sure Russ Andrews must be doing

http://www.russandrews.com/product.a...J DIRFIZCUIVH

1500 quid for a 3ft mains lead? - anyone that buys kit like that
deserves to be parted from their money.

Afraid I have zero 'admiration' for him. The problem is that he, and those
like him, do not simply sell to 'fools' but to innocent people who have
little or no interest in or understanding of engineering, and who fall for
what they read or are told.

Since they don't understand how the things they use work, they rely on the
magazines, etc, they *pay* for to inform them - and thus may be misinformed
and parted from their cash.

The real problem isn't with the salepeople or makers. It is with what often
appears in the editorial matter in magazines.

Above said, I suppose part the problem is the reaction, "I don't want
to understand how it works, or have to think for myself, just tell me
what to buy."

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article .com,
JPG
wrote:


Hifi and audio generally has, since the 50s, been plagued by more
superstitious crap than religion,

Alas, so. Indeed, much of what is claimed is essentially 'faith based' and
will provoke the same sort of emotional reaction when challenged as if you
started to argue with someone's religion. Try arguing about this on an
audio group and watch what happens. :-)

and the magazines have to go with it because these snake-oil salesman
advertise in their rags.

They don't *have* to. There are decent makers and salespeople. Alas, the
magazines often spout mystic nonsense - or at least assertions which have
no reliable basis. I don't think this is cynical on their part. My
experience is that those who write such things generally do believe what
they say. So I regard them as honest. But sincerity is not a warranty that
what is believed is correct.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article ,
Dave Farrance wrote:
"Chas Gill" wrote:

Getting back to the original point of the topic, I take it that the
consensus of opinion here is that a 7 quid HDMI cable will do then ;-)

It should do. There's no reason that a good HDMI cable can't be made for
£7. None of the preceding comments in this thread should be taken to
imply that totally crap cables don't exist, of course. If it doesn't
work or creates "sparklies", then that should be obvious immediately, so
you can take it back, or if that's too much bother then you've only lost
£7.

...or even the competently assembled Chinese ones in Tescos,
that will magically appear in Tescos just after Christmas,
for ..say.. 3.99gbp, or so.. anyone.. )

...or are they not as good as the oxygen-free, H2O balanced
ones soaked in Helium, Argon and Witch-Hazel...? )

Bill ZFC

--
Adoption InterLink UK with -=- http://www.billsimpson.com/
Domain Host Orpheus Internet -=- http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk/

Adrian C wrote:

Heh, I'd love to see the charlatan "Russ Andrews" hauled up on BBC
Watchdog one day. Or someone disclose his client list so that those who
gain personal income at the tax payers expense can be persuaded to get
better value for their money, do things morally for the better, or take
a pay cut. Besides, it would be good for a laugh - I forsee a lot of
celebrity/media people being on his books.

Owning nice things is fine and some high earners do deserve that, but
being outrageously stupid is something that further down the line we all
pay for.

On the subject of outrageousness, I think that the following is about as
extreme as it gets.

Russ Andrews' "How Much Do I Pay" FAQ:

"Russ' 10% rule...

"Hi-Fi magazines and Dealers will tell you that you should not spend
more than 10% of the hardware budget on cables or you are wasting money.
They believe in the Rule of Diminishing Returns! I have discovered a
Rule of Increasing Returns that comes into play when you upgrade the
right things in the right order. To achieve this you need to apply my
10% Rule. Spend 10% of your budget on the hardware and 90% getting the
best out of it! (Okay, I may be exaggerating a little but not by as much
as you might think.)

"The standard '10% Rule' might sound fine, but it vastly underrates the
fundamental importance of the cabling in a Hi-Fi system. There's no
point spending money on your hardware and then never hearing it's full
potential because the cables you use add distortion and lose
information. Think about it in terms of the size of improvement you'll
gain rather than what you might 'expect' to pay eg. if a £100 cable
makes your £200 CD player sound better than a £500 CD player then that's
excellent value for money by anyone's standards."

Since the purveyors of the very expesive interconnects make quite definite
claims, someone should buy a few products and then take them to court.

Bill