OT - mobile phone chargers number 1 planet killer - official

In article , Charlie Pearce
writes
On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 08:13:42 +0000, Prometheus
wrote:

Of course you could: either drink quicker, or get Dewar flask design
mug.

Or a Klein flask - they hold absolutely loads!

Arguably they are entirely outside; there are certain logistical
difficulties in having one delivered to our three dimensional universe.
--
Ian G8ILZ

The message
from Digby contains these words:

====snip====

Well the later chargers obviously don't have zero current when not
charging, but it is reasonable low.
As I just happen to have an old and new charger handy I thought I'd
measure their current.

Old charger On charge 4.3W No phone connected 1.38W
New charger On charge 3.2W No phone connected 0.11W

Are those wattage figures calculated from a current and voltage
measurement, or do you have a very expensive watt meter capable of 3
digit accuracy on a 10 or 20 watt FSD setting?

If the former and the current measurements were 5,75mA and 0.458mA
respectively on a 240v supply, you might be over-estimating the power
consumption of the older charger by a few tens of percentage. The later
switched mode unit is probably only a few percent adrift from reality.

TBH, Those plugtop (50Hz) transformers are abysmally high loss devices
typically consuming 2 or 3 watts on no load. The best such plugtop
transformer I tested being, funnily enough, one designed for a telephone
answering machine which only wasted half a watt on no load. My
measurements, BTW, were made using an analogue watt meter with mirrored
(anti-parallax error) scale on the lowest setting of 100W FSD.

If you've measured using a watt meter, I'd really love to know the make
and model of the instrument you used. :-)

--
Regards, John.

Please remove the "ohggcyht" before replying.
The address has been munged to reject Spam-bots.

In message , Johnny B Good
writes
The message
from Digby contains these words:

====snip====

Well the later chargers obviously don't have zero current when not
charging, but it is reasonable low.
As I just happen to have an old and new charger handy I thought I'd
measure their current.

Old charger On charge 4.3W No phone connected 1.38W
New charger On charge 3.2W No phone connected 0.11W

Are those wattage figures calculated from a current and voltage
measurement, or do you have a very expensive watt meter capable of 3
digit accuracy on a 10 or 20 watt FSD setting?

If the former and the current measurements were 5,75mA and 0.458mA
respectively on a 240v supply, you might be over-estimating the power
consumption of the older charger by a few tens of percentage. The later
switched mode unit is probably only a few percent adrift from reality.

TBH, Those plugtop (50Hz) transformers are abysmally high loss devices
typically consuming 2 or 3 watts on no load. The best such plugtop
transformer I tested being, funnily enough, one designed for a telephone
answering machine which only wasted half a watt on no load. My
measurements, BTW, were made using an analogue watt meter with mirrored
(anti-parallax error) scale on the lowest setting of 100W FSD.

If you've measured using a watt meter, I'd really love to know the make
and model of the instrument you used. :-)


Use a 4-way extension plugged into a standard watt meter, with a table
lamp plugged in to the extension, as well as the device you want to
measure. Turn on lamp, measure reading, plug in charger, measure reading
and subtract. Rinse and repeat if required.
--
Chris

Pyriform wrote:
I have this morning received a communication from my current energy
supplier, Southern Electric. After explaining that they've fulfilled their
May promise not to increase my prices again for the rest of 2006, and are
therefore now going to increase them from 1st January 2007, they point me in
the direction of their handy energy-saving leaflet, which they have
enclosed.

"Work WONDERS in a WEEKEND", it proclaims, ahead of a list of 4 energy
saving priorities. In fourth place, the fridge-freezer. In third place, the
standby buttons. At number 2, the boiler thermostat (not the room
thermostat, as those of us less expert in the field might have predicted).
But in pole position, the lethal, energy guzzling mobile phone charger. I
quote:

"1 Unplug your mobile phone charger

These little black boxes suck 100kWhrs a day from your socket, even when
your phone is fully charged!"



so do the power supplies that power my 2 external drives, the power
supply that keeps my mouse charged up, then the four power supplies that
keep my Dect phones charged. the power supply that keep my answering
machine answering the phone. My freeview box and my DVd recorder, both
on standby then there is my computer which is on 24 hours a day. so
there is no way I am going to worry about a piddly little mobile phone
charger.


In other words I don't give a crap, I pay for my electric and if anyone
got a problem with that then tough.

AD C wrote:
"1 Unplug your mobile phone charger

These little black boxes suck 100kWhrs a day from your socket, even
when your phone is fully charged!"

so do the power supplies that power my 2 external drives, the power
supply that keeps my mouse charged up, then the four power supplies
that keep my Dect phones charged. the power supply that keep my
answering machine answering the phone. My freeview box and my DVd
recorder, both on standby then there is my computer which is on 24
hours a day. so there is no way I am going to worry about a piddly
little mobile phone charger.

Good grief man! That's nearly 46kW. And I bet those aren't your only
electrical appliances. How do you stay cool?

In other words I don't give a crap, I pay for my electric and if
anyone got a problem with that then tough.

That's the spirit.

"Pyriform" wrote in message
...
AD C wrote:
"1 Unplug your mobile phone charger

These little black boxes suck 100kWhrs a day from your socket, even
when your phone is fully charged!"

so do the power supplies that power my 2 external drives, the power
supply that keeps my mouse charged up, then the four power supplies
that keep my Dect phones charged. the power supply that keep my
answering machine answering the phone. My freeview box and my DVd
recorder, both on standby then there is my computer which is on 24
hours a day. so there is no way I am going to worry about a piddly
little mobile phone charger.

Good grief man! That's nearly 46kW. And I bet those aren't your only
electrical appliances. How do you stay cool?

I expect he has aircon.

--
Max Demian

"AD C" wrote in message
. uk...
so do the power supplies that power my 2 external drives, the power supply
that keeps my mouse charged up, then the four power supplies that keep my
Dect phones charged. the power supply that keep my answering machine
answering the phone. My freeview box and my DVd recorder, both on standby
then there is my computer which is on 24 hours a day. so there is no way I
am going to worry about a piddly little mobile phone charger.


In other words I don't give a crap, I pay for my electric and if anyone
got a problem with that then tough.

That's more or less my attitude. I'm not going to put myself out worrying
about power usage until
(a) The Chinese agree to go back to pre-industrial poverty
(b) Absurd city road schemes that cause vehicles to travel unneccessary
miles are abolished
(c) Bus lanes, which cause pollution by increasing traffic congestion, are
abolished
(d) The offices on Canary Wharf stop wasting £7k worth of electricity every
night by leaving lights and computers on
(e) We get some nuclear power stations built
(d) The government tell Sky that they can't continue to supply receivers
that use 25W on standby and 'have to be left on standby'. (Fat chance of the
government telling Sky to do anything though)

Bill

The message
from Chris contains these words:

In message , Johnny B Good
writes
The message
from Digby contains these words:

====snip====

Well the later chargers obviously don't have zero current when not
charging, but it is reasonable low.
As I just happen to have an old and new charger handy I thought I'd
measure their current.

Old charger On charge 4.3W No phone connected 1.38W
New charger On charge 3.2W No phone connected 0.11W

Are those wattage figures calculated from a current and voltage
measurement, or do you have a very expensive watt meter capable of 3
digit accuracy on a 10 or 20 watt FSD setting?

If the former and the current measurements were 5,75mA and 0.458mA
respectively on a 240v supply, you might be over-estimating the power
consumption of the older charger by a few tens of percentage. The later
switched mode unit is probably only a few percent adrift from reality.

TBH, Those plugtop (50Hz) transformers are abysmally high loss devices
typically consuming 2 or 3 watts on no load. The best such plugtop
transformer I tested being, funnily enough, one designed for a telephone
answering machine which only wasted half a watt on no load. My
measurements, BTW, were made using an analogue watt meter with mirrored
(anti-parallax error) scale on the lowest setting of 100W FSD.

If you've measured using a watt meter, I'd really love to know the make
and model of the instrument you used. :-)


Use a 4-way extension plugged into a standard watt meter, with a table
lamp plugged in to the extension, as well as the device you want to
measure. Turn on lamp, measure reading, plug in charger, measure reading
and subtract. Rinse and repeat if required.

That technique suggests you're using an electronic type of watt meter
capable of 3 digit accuracy but unable to report power readings below a
certain power level (ISTR an Aldi special which wouldn't read (or read
reliably) below 7 watts). Is this the type of meter you're referring to
as a "standard watt meter"?

That technique of calculating the consumption from the difference
between a lamp on its own and a lamp plus kit on test would _reduce_ the
accuracy of the reading on _my_ standard watt meter.

I can interpolate to a tenth of a watt reading if I use a jeweler's
loupe or high powered magnifying glass to closely examine the zero end
of the scale knowing that a 5% inaccuracy would be simply a 5%
inaccuracy of the tenth of a watt reading I was taking rather than that
of 60 watt and a 60.1 watt readings which would be subject to the effect
of short term variations in mains voltage.

It's not entirely clear what it is you're referring to as a "standard
watt meter". Could you offer more detail such as whether it's an
analogue or an electronic digital type of meter? I only ask because I'm
quite impressed, nay, intrigued, by the precision of your no load
wattage readings at such low power levels on mains voltage kit.

--
Regards, John.

Please remove the "ohggcyht" before replying.
The address has been munged to reject Spam-bots.

In message , Johnny B Good
writes
The message
from Chris contains these words:

In message , Johnny B Good
writes
The message
from Digby contains these words:

====snip====

Well the later chargers obviously don't have zero current when not
charging, but it is reasonable low.
As I just happen to have an old and new charger handy I thought I'd
measure their current.

Old charger On charge 4.3W No phone connected 1.38W
New charger On charge 3.2W No phone connected 0.11W

Are those wattage figures calculated from a current and voltage
measurement, or do you have a very expensive watt meter capable of 3
digit accuracy on a 10 or 20 watt FSD setting?

If the former and the current measurements were 5,75mA and 0.458mA
respectively on a 240v supply, you might be over-estimating the power
consumption of the older charger by a few tens of percentage. The later
switched mode unit is probably only a few percent adrift from reality.

TBH, Those plugtop (50Hz) transformers are abysmally high loss devices
typically consuming 2 or 3 watts on no load. The best such plugtop
transformer I tested being, funnily enough, one designed for a telephone
answering machine which only wasted half a watt on no load. My
measurements, BTW, were made using an analogue watt meter with mirrored
(anti-parallax error) scale on the lowest setting of 100W FSD.

If you've measured using a watt meter, I'd really love to know the make
and model of the instrument you used. :-)


Use a 4-way extension plugged into a standard watt meter, with a table
lamp plugged in to the extension, as well as the device you want to
measure. Turn on lamp, measure reading, plug in charger, measure reading
and subtract. Rinse and repeat if required.

That technique suggests you're using an electronic type of watt meter
capable of 3 digit accuracy but unable to report power readings below a
certain power level (ISTR an Aldi special which wouldn't read (or read
reliably) below 7 watts). Is this the type of meter you're referring to
as a "standard watt meter"?

That technique of calculating the consumption from the difference
between a lamp on its own and a lamp plus kit on test would _reduce_ the
accuracy of the reading on _my_ standard watt meter.

I can interpolate to a tenth of a watt reading if I use a jeweler's
loupe or high powered magnifying glass to closely examine the zero end
of the scale knowing that a 5% inaccuracy would be simply a 5%
inaccuracy of the tenth of a watt reading I was taking rather than that
of 60 watt and a 60.1 watt readings which would be subject to the effect
of short term variations in mains voltage.

It's not entirely clear what it is you're referring to as a "standard
watt meter". Could you offer more detail such as whether it's an
analogue or an electronic digital type of meter? I only ask because I'm
quite impressed, nay, intrigued, by the precision of your no load
wattage readings at such low power levels on mains voltage kit.


I didn't perform the original tests posted earlier, but I personally use
the following:

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=010916213

As you pointed out, there can be a problem with measurement of very low
wattage appliances which is why I posted the technique above.
--
Chris

Pyriform wrote:


Good grief man! That's nearly 46kW. And I bet those aren't your only
electrical appliances. How do you stay cool?

I doubt it is any where near that amount. As you said I still have more,
my fridge/freezer, my washing machine, vacume cleaner, clock radio,
coffee maker which is used every morning, my george foreman, microwave
and my juicer. the one thing i have not got is a dish washer.


In other words I don't give a crap, I pay for my electric and if
anyone got a problem with that then tough.

That's the spirit.



Oh yes.