Who Killed Tivo2Go?

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Digital Cable and Satellite DRM Harms TV Fans and Innovators

It's the latest digital media murder mystery: TiVo Series2's TiVoToGo1
enabled limited portability of recorded content to PCs and other
devices, but the TiVo Series3 HD did not include this feature when
recently released.2 In other words, if you want to upgrade to HD, you
have to downgrade your TiVo's features.

You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to guess that this story somehow
involves Hollywood, the FCC, and "digital rights management" (DRM)
restrictions. The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) has opposed
these restrictions every step of the way, and, in this article, we'll
explain digital cable DRM's sordid history, how digital cable and
satellite DRM may affect you, and what you can do to fight back.

In short, get ready for copying limits on cable and satellite content
that won't stop "Internet piracy"3 but will stop you from making
legitimate use of lawfully acquired content. You'll be forced to only
buy devices with limited features, and restricted digital outputs
could break compatibility with your current HD displays and receivers,
even though you may have already invested thousands of dollars in
them. Innovators will have to beg permission before inventing new
digital devices that help you get more from your satellite and cable
content.

Unfortunately, TiVoToGo's disappearance is just the tip of the
iceberg.

http://www.eff.org/IP/pnp/cablewp.php
http://www.eff.org/IP/pnp/eff_cablewp.pdf

Scott Peterson

--
The light at the end of the tunnel
may be nothing more than an idiot
with a match."

(393/741)

In article ,
says...

It's the latest digital media murder mystery: TiVo Series2's TiVoToGo1
enabled limited portability of recorded content to PCs and other
devices, but the TiVo Series3 HD did not include this feature when
recently released.2 In other words, if you want to upgrade to HD, you
have to downgrade your TiVo's features.

Would Tivo2Go even be feasible with HD content? How many HOURS would it
take to transfer a one hour HD show?
--
Jud
Dallas TX USA

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 14:04:27 +0000, Jud Hardcastle wrote:

In article ,
says...

It's the latest digital media murder mystery: TiVo Series2's TiVoToGo1
enabled limited portability of recorded content to PCs and other
devices, but the TiVo Series3 HD did not include this feature when
recently released.2 In other words, if you want to upgrade to HD, you
have to downgrade your TiVo's features.

Would Tivo2Go even be feasible with HD content? How many HOURS would it
take to transfer a one hour HD show?

I don't know how long it takes with Tivo2Go, but it's only about 7GB and
doesn't take long over Gbit lan (maybe 5 minutes). With a client server
setup such as I use, all shows are stored on a central system and are then
then streamed to the client over then lan for viewing. I've got 3 client
machines and all 3 can be watching the same or different HDTV
recording/show at once. And DRM is non exisent.:-)

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

On 2006-10-22, Jud Hardcastle wrote:
In article ,
says...

It's the latest digital media murder mystery: TiVo Series2's TiVoToGo1
enabled limited portability of recorded content to PCs and other
devices, but the TiVo Series3 HD did not include this feature when
recently released.2 In other words, if you want to upgrade to HD, you
have to downgrade your TiVo's features.

Would Tivo2Go even be feasible with HD content? How many HOURS would it
take to transfer a one hour HD show?

It takes me less than 10 minutes to do a SD hour show with my hacked TiVo
on a 100Mbps network. Figure HD is 10X larger (MPEG2, not MPEG4), it
would take 100minutes to xfer a 60 minute show. Going to a Gig network
would cut that down considerably, but it will take some time for enough
people to get machines that can do Gig. The other option would be to go
to MPEG4 instead of MPEG2. This is mostly from the HR10-250 data, I don't
know much about the S3 yet.

Now, just because HD xfer is slow shouldn't be the reason to not pursue
the feature because it also prevents xfering SD shows, which is already a
fundamental feature of the S2 machines and is pretty expected of the user
base out there.

--
This is my .sig

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:04:37 +0000, Mike Hunt wrote:

On 2006-10-22, Jud Hardcastle wrote:
In article ,
says...

It's the latest digital media murder mystery: TiVo Series2's TiVoToGo1
enabled limited portability of recorded content to PCs and other
devices, but the TiVo Series3 HD did not include this feature when
recently released.2 In other words, if you want to upgrade to HD, you
have to downgrade your TiVo's features.

Would Tivo2Go even be feasible with HD content? How many HOURS would it
take to transfer a one hour HD show?

It takes me less than 10 minutes to do a SD hour show with my hacked TiVo
on a 100Mbps network.

Then you've got a network problem. More likely a Tivo problem not being
able to feed the stream fast enough with that super mickey mouse CPU it
has and all that ram.:-) A 100Mbit network can serve at least 2 and
probably 3 or close to it, full hd streams in real time. I do 2 every day
here. 100Mbit, do the math.

Figure HD is 10X larger (MPEG2, not MPEG4), it
would take 100minutes to xfer a 60 minute show.

It's not 10 times larger. It's about 7 times.

Going to a Gig network would cut that down considerably

It's not needed. 100Mbit is more than twice as fast enough.

to MPEG4 instead of MPEG2. This is mostly from the HR10-250 data, I
don't know much about the S3 yet.

Then there's a problem with the HR10-250 too.

Now, just because HD xfer is slow shouldn't be the reason to not pursue
the feature because it also prevents xfering SD shows, which is already
a fundamental feature of the S2 machines and is pretty expected of the
user base out there.

Don't know and don't care why the S3 function isn't available, but it's
certainly not because it only has a 100Mbit network interface which is
capable of about 30GB per hour. If you really want to know how long it
takes, I'll ftp a one hour mpeg2 file (about 7GB) and time it. It should
be about 20 minutes at most over 100Mbit.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:02:51 GMT, Wes Newell
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:04:37 +0000, Mike Hunt wrote:

On 2006-10-22, Jud Hardcastle wrote:
In article ,
says...

It's the latest digital media murder mystery: TiVo Series2's TiVoToGo1
enabled limited portability of recorded content to PCs and other
devices, but the TiVo Series3 HD did not include this feature when
recently released.2 In other words, if you want to upgrade to HD, you
have to downgrade your TiVo's features.

Would Tivo2Go even be feasible with HD content? How many HOURS would it
take to transfer a one hour HD show?

It takes me less than 10 minutes to do a SD hour show with my hacked TiVo
on a 100Mbps network.

Then you've got a network problem. More likely a Tivo problem not being
able to feed the stream fast enough with that super mickey mouse CPU it
has and all that ram.:-) A 100Mbit network can serve at least 2 and
probably 3 or close to it, full hd streams in real time. I do 2 every day
here. 100Mbit, do the math.

Figure HD is 10X larger (MPEG2, not MPEG4), it
would take 100minutes to xfer a 60 minute show.

It's not 10 times larger. It's about 7 times.

Going to a Gig network would cut that down considerably

It's not needed. 100Mbit is more than twice as fast enough.

to MPEG4 instead of MPEG2. This is mostly from the HR10-250 data, I
don't know much about the S3 yet.

Then there's a problem with the HR10-250 too.

Now, just because HD xfer is slow shouldn't be the reason to not pursue
the feature because it also prevents xfering SD shows, which is already
a fundamental feature of the S2 machines and is pretty expected of the
user base out there.

Don't know and don't care why the S3 function isn't available, but it's
certainly not because it only has a 100Mbit network interface which is
capable of about 30GB per hour. If you really want to know how long it
takes, I'll ftp a one hour mpeg2 file (about 7GB) and time it. It should
be about 20 minutes at most over 100Mbit.

In they don't want to allow HD transfers, they could convert the show
to 480i or 480p. The unit can already do that, for playback.

On 2006-10-23, Mark Lloyd wrote:

In they don't want to allow HD transfers, they could convert the show
to 480i or 480p. The unit can already do that, for playback.

This is a great solution, especially since it would allow the S3 to copy
HD record shows to an S2 unit in the house, maintaining backward
compatibility. We'll see if anything like this ever comes out of
tivo.com.

--
This is my .sig

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:04:37 -0000, Mike Hunt
wrote:


Mike,

You mentioned that your TiVo is hacked. What exactly have you done to
it?


On 2006-10-22, Jud Hardcastle wrote:
In article ,
says...

It's the latest digital media murder mystery: TiVo Series2's TiVoToGo1
enabled limited portability of recorded content to PCs and other
devices, but the TiVo Series3 HD did not include this feature when
recently released.2 In other words, if you want to upgrade to HD, you
have to downgrade your TiVo's features.

Would Tivo2Go even be feasible with HD content? How many HOURS would it
take to transfer a one hour HD show?

It takes me less than 10 minutes to do a SD hour show with my hacked TiVo
on a 100Mbps network. Figure HD is 10X larger (MPEG2, not MPEG4), it
would take 100minutes to xfer a 60 minute show. Going to a Gig network
would cut that down considerably, but it will take some time for enough
people to get machines that can do Gig. The other option would be to go
to MPEG4 instead of MPEG2. This is mostly from the HR10-250 data, I don't
know much about the S3 yet.

Now, just because HD xfer is slow shouldn't be the reason to not pursue
the feature because it also prevents xfering SD shows, which is already a
fundamental feature of the S2 machines and is pretty expected of the user
base out there.
Thanks in advance!!!

Regards,

Steve B.

On 2006-10-23, wrote:
On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:04:37 -0000, Mike Hunt
wrote:

You mentioned that your TiVo is hacked. What exactly have you done to
it?

Installed telnet, mfs_ftp, tivowebplus, turned off encryption, added a
cachecard, etc. Another has similar only with a normal turbonet card.

--
This is my .sig

Once upon a time, Mark Lloyd said:
In they don't want to allow HD transfers, they could convert the show
to 480i or 480p. The unit can already do that, for playback.

Yeah, but the playback conversion is most likely done in the MPEG
decoder chip. Down-converting for network transfer would require
conversion in the CPU (with re-compressing to MPEG format).
--
Chris Adams
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.