Home Theater For Music?

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Bill Kraski wrote:
wrote:

Another question for the HT Guru's. Can a decent Home Theater produce
really good music? Or is stereo the only way to go for music?

I'll second some of what Rich said & disagree with some. You
definitely want good fronts, no matter what you're listening to. I'm
not sure the fronts & the surrounds need to be the same. Very few
recordings are going to surround the listener with the musicians. And
induced (rather than real) 5.1 with PL II Music is very nice. The rear
does a very nice job of supporting & enhancing the front. And, at
least with the jazz, classical & new age stuff I usually listen to,
it's allowed me to catch some musical nuances that might have gone
right by me in stereo.

My receiver is the Kenwood VR-507. It was the heart of my HTB-504
system. It sounds quite decent for music, just not as great as I want.
I wonder if adding some good speakers would make the difference I'm
looking for. Rather than just building a stereo system? The receiver
and sub seem quite good. The other speakers seem to be quite cheapo.

Bill

Yes, it will sound better. The VR-507 is basically a good receiver that
deserves to be matched with decent speakers.



ed

wrote in message
oups.com...

Bill Kraski wrote:
wrote:

Another question for the HT Guru's. Can a decent Home Theater produce
really good music? Or is stereo the only way to go for music?

I'll second some of what Rich said & disagree with some. You
definitely want good fronts, no matter what you're listening to. I'm
not sure the fronts & the surrounds need to be the same. Very few
recordings are going to surround the listener with the musicians. And
induced (rather than real) 5.1 with PL II Music is very nice. The rear
does a very nice job of supporting & enhancing the front. And, at
least with the jazz, classical & new age stuff I usually listen to,
it's allowed me to catch some musical nuances that might have gone
right by me in stereo.

My receiver is the Kenwood VR-507. It was the heart of my HTB-504
system. It sounds quite decent for music, just not as great as I want.
I wonder if adding some good speakers would make the difference I'm
looking for. Rather than just building a stereo system? The receiver
and sub seem quite good. The other speakers seem to be quite cheapo.

Bill


My current HT audio setup is a Kenwood VR-209 receiver (your VR-507 is equal
to or better sounding). My main speakers are an old pair of Acoustic
Research AR-12's (original drivers replaced with Peerless), center speaker
is a Mirage, and my surround speakers are Boston Acoustic A-60's. Subwoofer
is an AR with a 12" driver, but I'm too lazy right now to go look at the
model #.

Now, even with all these different brands of speakers, my system sounds
excellent for both listening to music in stereo mode with just the fronts or
fronts plus sub if I'm listening to classical organ recordings, and it
sounds excellent in 5.1 mode for movies.

I didn't do a lot of listening and matching of timbre between all these
different brands, but I got lucky and they sound excellent together.

My Kenwood VR-209, for being rather dated and inexpensive, sounds wonderful
for both music and 5.1. I am considering upgrading to a newer receiver that
offers more connection flexibility and switching, but I'm in no rush because
I'm very satisfied with my VR-209's sound.

I would encourage you to upgrade your speakers.

ed

Bill Kraski wrote:
wrote:

Another question for the HT Guru's. Can a decent Home Theater produce
really good music? Or is stereo the only way to go for music?

I'll second some of what Rich said & disagree with some. You
definitely want good fronts, no matter what you're listening to. I'm
not sure the fronts & the surrounds need to be the same. Very few
recordings are going to surround the listener with the musicians.

There are many studio-created surround recordings, mostly released on
SACD and DVD-A, that unquestionably benefit from five identical
speakers. Porcupine Tree. Steely Dan. But it's a niche market and, as I
said, most people aren't going to be able to support such a setup.

And
induced (rather than real) 5.1 with PL II Music is very nice.

That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. g

Seriously, this is a subjective matter. To my ears, if you can hear the
processing (and I can) then it's detrimental to the music. I'm not
interested in (or entertained by) anything but accuracy; the system
should affect the sound of the original recording as little as
possible.

The rear
does a very nice job of supporting & enhancing the front. And, at
least with the jazz, classical & new age stuff I usually listen to,
it's allowed me to catch some musical nuances that might have gone
right by me in stereo.

I might submit that better main speakers could have the same benefit.
g

RichC

rdclark wrote:
Bill Kraski wrote:

wrote:


Another question for the HT Guru's. Can a decent Home Theater produce
really good music? Or is stereo the only way to go for music?

I'll second some of what Rich said & disagree with some. You
definitely want good fronts, no matter what you're listening to. I'm
not sure the fronts & the surrounds need to be the same. Very few
recordings are going to surround the listener with the musicians.


There are many studio-created surround recordings, mostly released on
SACD and DVD-A, that unquestionably benefit from five identical
speakers. Porcupine Tree. Steely Dan. But it's a niche market and, as I
said, most people aren't going to be able to support such a setup.


I will note that the ONLY instance of DVD-A players that I can recall
seeing have been in Acura automobiles and SUVs. Not that home players
don't have DVD-A, I just have not seen any of them in stores, nor have
I been looking for them.

On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:15:05 GMT, Robert Gammon
wrote:

Not that home players don't have DVD-A, I just have not seen any of them
in stores, nor have I been looking for them.

Self-explanatory.

Kal

rdclark wrote:

And
induced (rather than real) 5.1 with PL II Music is very nice.

That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. g

Thank you. :-)

Seriously, this is a subjective matter. To my ears, if you can hear
the processing (and I can) then it's detrimental to the music. I'm not
interested in (or entertained by) anything but accuracy; the system
should affect the sound of the original recording as little as
possible.

You have better ears than most -- at least in that audio range. Most
people won't hear or notice the processing, including myself. Being a
little closer to retirement age than you probably are, some of that may
come from changes due to aging. But my hearing tests have always been
better than average. So I tend to go with the idea that hearing some
of the electronic noise (processing or otherwise) can also be a matter
of the which piece of electronics you're passing the signal through.
When I was checking out receivers, the Onkyos tended to emphasize
treble less than some of the others & seemed fuller in the mid & low
ranges. And that was testing with recordings that I knew *exactly* how
they should sound if I were there live. Most electronic noise falls
somewhere in the treble range. So, if your amp/receiver highlights the
treble, it's likely some of the noise may be audible.

The rear
does a very nice job of supporting & enhancing the front. And, at
least with the jazz, classical & new age stuff I usually listen to,
it's allowed me to catch some musical nuances that might have gone
right by me in stereo.

I might submit that better main speakers could have the same benefit.
g

Possibly. :-) But I doubt I have any reason to complain about a set of
Athena Point 5 Mark IIs paired with a Velodyne 12" sub & an Onkyo
SR803. The op seems to have a decent receiver, so, yes, better
speakers would help him.

--
Bill K

"Bill Kraski" wrote in message
news:Iws_g.3103$k63.[email protected]
You have better ears than most -- at least in that audio range. Most
people won't hear or notice the processing, including myself. Being a
little closer to retirement age than you probably are, some of that may
come from changes due to aging. But my hearing tests have always been
better than average.

It's not hearing acuity, per se. I'm 55 but my hearing has not deteriorated;
it's more a matter of a lifetime of training as a musician and AV
professional, I suspect.

So I tend to go with the idea that hearing some
of the electronic noise (processing or otherwise) can also be a matter
of the which piece of electronics you're passing the signal through.
When I was checking out receivers, the Onkyos tended to emphasize
treble less than some of the others & seemed fuller in the mid & low
ranges. And that was testing with recordings that I knew *exactly* how
they should sound if I were there live. Most electronic noise falls
somewhere in the treble range. So, if your amp/receiver highlights the
treble, it's likely some of the noise may be audible.

No argument that processors all sound different from one another -- which is
my point. They all have something to add, and they shouldn't.

But it's not so much a matter of noise, or only the changes in frequency
emphasis that you point out. It's that all of these processors play around
with the phase relationships between the original stereo channels, and that
*always* has an audible effect (which is, after all, their point). My
position is that any audible effect that isn't in the original recording is
b-a-d.

I might submit that better main speakers could have the same benefit.
g

Possibly. :-) But I doubt I have any reason to complain about a set of
Athena Point 5 Mark IIs paired with a Velodyne 12" sub & an Onkyo
SR803. The op seems to have a decent receiver, so, yes, better
speakers would help him.

Oh, no doubt about it.

RichC

Ed Chait wrote:

My receiver is the Kenwood VR-507. It was the heart of my HTB-504
system. It sounds quite decent for music, just not as great as I want.
I wonder if adding some good speakers would make the difference I'm
looking for. Rather than just building a stereo system? The receiver
and sub seem quite good. The other speakers seem to be quite cheapo.

Bill


My current HT audio setup is a Kenwood VR-209 receiver (your VR-507 is equal
to or better sounding). My main speakers are an old pair of Acoustic
Research AR-12's (original drivers replaced with Peerless), center speaker
is a Mirage, and my surround speakers are Boston Acoustic A-60's. Subwoofer
is an AR with a 12" driver, but I'm too lazy right now to go look at the
model #.

Now, even with all these different brands of speakers, my system sounds
excellent for both listening to music in stereo mode with just the fronts or
fronts plus sub if I'm listening to classical organ recordings, and it
sounds excellent in 5.1 mode for movies.

I didn't do a lot of listening and matching of timbre between all these
different brands, but I got lucky and they sound excellent together.

My Kenwood VR-209, for being rather dated and inexpensive, sounds wonderful
for both music and 5.1. I am considering upgrading to a newer receiver that
offers more connection flexibility and switching, but I'm in no rush because
I'm very satisfied with my VR-209's sound.

I would encourage you to upgrade your speakers.

I'm leaning your way Ed. Heck, if the speakers don't give the results I
want then I can make more changes. I'm leaning towards the Titans. I
wonder what four Titans would sound like with my system. My Kenwood sub
and center sound VERY good to my ears.


ed

"Robert Gammon" wrote in message
...

I will note that the ONLY instance of DVD-A players that I can recall
seeing have been in Acura automobiles and SUVs. Not that home players
don't have DVD-A, I just have not seen any of them in stores, nor have I
been looking for them.

That's really useful to know, Robert.

I had a similar experience, as a young child, with Tampax. I only ever saw
them in Mom's drawer in the bathroom vanity cabinet. I didn't see them in
stores, nor did I look for them. Imagine my amazement when I discovered they
were everywhere.

Like you and high-resolution audio, I wasn't terribly interested. But since
we're telling amusing stories about things we're not paying attention to, I
thought you might enjoy the tale of the Tampax.

If you *were* to become interested in hi-rez audio, you'd undoubtedly be
surprised to learn that many of the players you've seen in stores are in
fact DVD-A capable. As an example, if you go to crutchfield.com and select
DVD players you'll find 44 of them; of those 20 are listed as being DVD-A
compatible, including players from most major brands, starting at $99. There
are also a number of "universal" (i.e., DVD-A and SACD compatible) players,
including a well-regarded upconverting player from Oppo for $150. DVD-A
playback is a feature often present but not always promoted, even in modest
HTIB systems.

This is not to argue that DVD-A and SACD playback are important features for
most consumers, or that these formats have not failed in the consumer
marketplace. It's a niche market, as I've said, but I for one mourn its
failure. Some of these discs have provided me with unparalleled home audio
enjoyment.

RichC

I have the same system and had the same problem as in your original post
sound mostly comming from sub and center there is a setting called center
width i bet you will find that it is set to dead center or close adjust
this setting and you will be very pleased with the results.
wrote in message
oups.com...
I have the Kenwood HTB-504 system. It sounds quite good IMO even for
music. Most of the sound comes from the center speaker and sub. They
are quite good but the others sound poor (weak) even when turned up.
How can I improve my system for music listening? I only use it for
music anyway. Should I add some new speakers maybe? Music seems to
sound best in Circle Surround mode. Is this normal or do I need to make
some changes? Nearly all the sound comes from the sub and center.
Stereo modes do not sound good. Can I make this system better?
Different speakers? Any help appreciated.

Bill