Sony DTTV recorder

I'm posting this partly to inform anyone who might be interested, and also
to see if others have a similar experience...

I've used a Philips DVDR for the last 2-3 years. This has RGB scart input
as well as output, so I have used it to record DTTV broadcasts with my
Nokia 221T box.

When it works properly, the recorder gives good results. However it
sometimes makes a mess of a recording, and also struggles to play some
commercial DVDs (particularly the '2entertain' ones which the BBC seem to
have taken to using).

I therefore decided it was time to try out a 'new' recorder with its own
internal DTTV RX. Given that I have a number of recordings already it is
important a new one can play these OK. Also, most of what I record is
concerts (e.g. Proms) so good audio performance matters, and the unit also
has to be mechanically 'silent'.

To cut a long story short I decided to try the Sony RDRGXD360. I downloaded
the manual for this from Sony and checked its features, etc. This indicated
it should play my existing DVD+R's OK, had the co-axial spdif output I
wanted, and that the diagrams showed no (noisy) fan on the back.

I bought one from Argos, with their 16-day return promise in mind...

The Sony came today...

Erm. Despite the diagrams in the manual, there is a fan on the back.
Indeed, once the unit has been working for more than a few mins this is so
loud that I can hear it if I stand in the *hall* outside the room where the
unit is located!

It plays my existing DVD+R's, but ignores the chapter marking I'd carefully
placed at times like the start of a musical work or movement. So navigating
them is a pain.

When playing the DVD+R's (all of which are finalised) it also does not give
the TV the signals which allow it to autoswitch between 16:9 and 4:3 -
although this is OK for commercial DVDs.

I presume the way the Philips writes the updated chapter markings and
signals the 16:9/4:3 mode is regarded by Sony as 'non standard' so isn't
being detected. But regardless of the reason, the combination of drawbacks
means that I will probably now send back the unit. The fan noise is
particularly irritating. The older Philips has no fan and makes no noise,
so it seems daft that a newer unit does this.

The above renews my puzzlement/irritation that the consumer mags never make
any comments about levels of 'mechanical' noises for such equipment.
Presumably they are only interested in very very loud movies in big
rooms...

I plan to spend a few hours experimenting as some of the above may be due
to my not setting up something correctly (manual 100 pages long!). If
anyone knows of a 'fix' for the above please let me know. Maybe it is on a
page of the manual I haven't read yet!

Anyone care to comment on the Panasonic DVD recorders w.r.t. the above
points?... :-)

Otherwise I may be stuck with no option but another Philips when I want a
new recorder.

The Sony's digital tuner seems to work nicely, though.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Jim Lesurf wrote:
snip
Erm. Despite the diagrams in the manual, there is a fan on the back.
Indeed, once the unit has been working for more than a few mins this
is so loud that I can hear it if I stand in the *hall* outside the
room where the unit is located!

It plays my existing DVD+R's, but ignores the chapter marking I'd
carefully placed at times like the start of a musical work or
movement. So navigating them is a pain.

When playing the DVD+R's (all of which are finalised) it also does
not give the TV the signals which allow it to autoswitch between 16:9
and 4:3 - although this is OK for commercial DVDs.

I presume the way the Philips writes the updated chapter markings and
signals the 16:9/4:3 mode is regarded by Sony as 'non standard' so
isn't being detected. But regardless of the reason, the combination
of drawbacks means that I will probably now send back the unit. The
fan noise is particularly irritating. The older Philips has no fan
and makes no noise, so it seems daft that a newer unit does this.

The above renews my puzzlement/irritation that the consumer mags
never make any comments about levels of 'mechanical' noises for such
equipment. Presumably they are only interested in very very loud
movies in big rooms...
snip
Jim

My aunt has just bought the Panasonic DMR-EZ25, she's very happy with it, it
does have a fan but I wasn't able to hear it. I think you would have the
same problem with aspect ratio switching as the manual states that 16:9
recordings are recorded as 4:3 with +-R/RW discs so you would need to
manually adjust the display to show the correct aspect ratio.
--
Adrian

Jim Lesurf wrote:
snip

Erm. Despite the diagrams in the manual, there is a fan on the back.
Indeed, once the unit has been working for more than a few mins this is so
loud that I can hear it if I stand in the *hall* outside the room where the
unit is located!

It plays my existing DVD+R's, but ignores the chapter marking I'd carefully
placed at times like the start of a musical work or movement. So navigating
them is a pain.

When playing the DVD+R's (all of which are finalised) it also does not give
the TV the signals which allow it to autoswitch between 16:9 and 4:3 -
although this is OK for commercial DVDs.

I presume the way the Philips writes the updated chapter markings and
signals the 16:9/4:3 mode is regarded by Sony as 'non standard' so isn't
being detected. But regardless of the reason, the combination of drawbacks
means that I will probably now send back the unit. The fan noise is
particularly irritating. The older Philips has no fan and makes no noise,
so it seems daft that a newer unit does this.

The above renews my puzzlement/irritation that the consumer mags never make
any comments about levels of 'mechanical' noises for such equipment.
Presumably they are only interested in very very loud movies in big
rooms...


It's a curious thing - to the point that I'm surprised that
manufacturers don't market (or indeed design) their equipment as 'quiet'
that often. But then again it doesn't seem to bother a lot of people.

I have a Pioneer HD/DVD with a fan - the HD determines the noise floor,
so the fan's pretty quiet. Same on the Humax 9200T come to that.

Rob

Rob wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:
The above renews my puzzlement/irritation that the consumer mags
never make any comments about levels of 'mechanical' noises for
such equipment. Presumably they are only interested in very very
loud movies in big rooms...

It's a curious thing - to the point that I'm surprised that
manufacturers don't market (or indeed design) their equipment as
'quiet' that often. But then again it doesn't seem to bother a lot
of people. I have a Pioneer HD/DVD with a fan - the HD determines
the noise floor, so the fan's pretty quiet. Same on the Humax 9200T
come to that.

I couldn't agree more. It was a delightful surprise when I bought my
last PC (a Dell) to find that it was almost totally silent. Nothing in
the reviews or Dell's own advertising mentioned this.

So far as digital video equipment goes, the Topfield PVR has no fan at
all - but it doesn't have a DVD either, so that's no good to Jim. But
the only noise it makes is the hard disk heads seeking when it is
recording and playing back at the same time. That noise is inaudible
in normal use, and can be made quieter by a TAP which invokes the
acoustic management of the HD.

André Coutanche

André Coutanche wrote:
Rob wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:
The above renews my puzzlement/irritation that the consumer mags
never make any comments about levels of 'mechanical' noises for
such equipment. Presumably they are only interested in very very
loud movies in big rooms...

It's a curious thing - to the point that I'm surprised that
manufacturers don't market (or indeed design) their equipment as
'quiet' that often. But then again it doesn't seem to bother a lot
of people. I have a Pioneer HD/DVD with a fan - the HD determines
the noise floor, so the fan's pretty quiet. Same on the Humax 9200T
come to that.

I couldn't agree more. It was a delightful surprise when I bought my
last PC (a Dell) to find that it was almost totally silent. Nothing in
the reviews or Dell's own advertising mentioned this.


Having used a Dell at work and being impressed with the low noise
(designed in, with proper ducting and low noise fans), I bought one and
it sounded like a helicopter!

So far as digital video equipment goes, the Topfield PVR has no fan at
all - but it doesn't have a DVD either, so that's no good to Jim. But
the only noise it makes is the hard disk heads seeking when it is
recording and playing back at the same time. That noise is inaudible
in normal use, and can be made quieter by a TAP which invokes the
acoustic management of the HD.

The more I read about the Topfield, the more impressive it sounds - very
well thought through. The Humax is fine on a basic level though. I
changed to Macs recently (an iMac and a Mini). They're virtually silent.
And better. And ... (TOT) :-)

Rob

The more I read about the Topfield, the more impressive it sounds - very
well thought through. The Humax is fine on a basic level though. I changed
to Macs recently (an iMac and a Mini). They're virtually silent. And
better. And ... (TOT) :-)

Rob

TOT but expect PCs to get quieter. Pentium 4s (aka "room heaters") were
ridiculously inefficient and produced lots of heat, thus big, noisy fans.
The newer multi-core Intels run at lower clock rates, more than compensated
for by the dual core and better architecture. The result produces less heat
for the same performance so should require less cooling.

Paul DS.

On Oct 9, 4:47 pm, Jim Lesurf wrote:

To cut a long story short I decided to try the Sony RDRGXD360. I downloaded
the manual for this from Sony and checked its features, etc. This indicated
it should play my existing DVD+R's OK, had the co-axial spdif output I
wanted, and that the diagrams showed no (noisy) fan on the back.

You'll probably also find, despite at best rather ambiguous statements
in the manual, that the Sony 360 cannot record a source in RGB mode,
though it does still offer RGB loop-thru.

That was certainly my experience with its brother the 525.

In article , Adrian A
wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote: snip


When playing the DVD+R's (all of which are finalised) it also does not
give the TV the signals which allow it to autoswitch between 16:9 and
4:3 - although this is OK for commercial DVDs.


My aunt has just bought the Panasonic DMR-EZ25, she's very happy with
it, it does have a fan but I wasn't able to hear it.

The fan in my computer (Iyonix) is so quiet that I can't normally hear it
even though it is only a metre or so from my ear. It is clearly possible
for makers to use 'silent' fans. It seems absurd to me that this should
even be an issue with a consumer item like a DTTV DVD recorder -
particularly as my current Philips recorder has no external fan at all.


I think you would have the same problem with aspect ratio switching as
the manual states that 16:9 recordings are recorded as 4:3 with +-R/RW
discs so you would need to manually adjust the display to show the
correct aspect ratio.

Well, the discs I have recorded clearly do have the relevant info recorded
on them. When I playback +R/RW discs on the Philips recorder they switch
between 4:3 and 16:9 just as the original broadcasts did. So the problem
may be that there isn't an agreed 'standard' for this that all makers use.

Just what we need - yet more 'standards'. :-)

Indeed, it seems remarkable that makers seem to get away with such things
as noisy fans and no agreed standards whilst the magazines make no real
comments on the matters.

I contacted Argos, and they had no quibble with taking the unit back and
giving me a refund. So it should be vanishing again tomorrow.

My next step will be to visit a local shop, taking one or two recorded
discs with me...

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article , Rob
wrote:



It's a curious thing - to the point that I'm surprised that
manufacturers don't market (or indeed design) their equipment as 'quiet'
that often. But then again it doesn't seem to bother a lot of people.

I wonder if people just put up with it as 'inevitable'. The local Sony
center blandly told me, "all our recorders have fans" and seem to have no
interest in the idea that noise might even be a consideration.

Given that the sound format has the potential of a 90dB dynamic range, it
seems mad to throw away that by building in a relatively loud noise source.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
ups.com...

You'll probably also find, despite at best rather ambiguous statements
in the manual, that the Sony 360 cannot record a source in RGB mode,
though it does still offer RGB loop-thru.

That was certainly my experience with its brother the 525.


Very interesting.
Do you know in what mode is the video signal taken from the digital tuner
and passed to the recording section?

Roger R