Humax PVR 9200T software

"David Hearn" wrote...
Matti Lamprhey wrote:
"Rob" wrote...
There's an alternative to elinker on Digitalspy that I used that has
a nicer interface and deals with errors - I'm not sure if it fixes
the things you mention though.

I've ended up running an IDE cable from the Humax to the PC, and
using a utility available via digitalspy (by phew) to transfer
files - 2GB/min and no errors, so the whole disk is transferred in
under an hour, plus the time saved fixing the files. It does involve
taking the lid off the Humax and unplugging the HD - something you
may not be comfortable with.

What do you mean by "fixing the files"? Are you saying that the
eLinker software can introduce errors into an apparently successful
file transfer?

ELinker has no error correction in its protocols. If there is disk IO
occurring during the transfer, then you may miss some data in the
transfer. There is a tool which can transfer the file multiple times
to get the missed data (the chance of the data loss happening at the
same point is low).

Although eLinker doesn't correct errors, I believe that it detects them
and aborts the transmission of the file (code -8). I would be
interested to know if it's possible for errors introduced in the
transmission to go undetected. This would be proved by multiple
transmissions of the same file and finding a difference. But then what
would the -8 errors indicate?


The best way of transferring with the standard eLinker without the
errors is to be viewing a data-only channel (eg. 8) - and to not have
any recordings going at the same time.

I've read some threads on the Humax forums which discuss this topic, and
they indicate that the errors tend to be associated not with the Humax
end of the link but the nature of the USB hub & cabling and what's
running on the PC at the time. But I don't claim to have read all such
threads.

I used to get loads of errors, but then I bought a powered hub and this
reduced the incidence dramatically.

Matti

"Rob" wrote...
Matti Lamprhey wrote:
"Rob" wrote...
There's an alternative to elinker on Digitalspy that I used that has
a nicer interface and deals with errors - I'm not sure if it fixes
the things you mention though.

I've ended up running an IDE cable from the Humax to the PC, and
using a utility available via digitalspy (by phew) to transfer
files - 2GB/min and no errors, so the whole disk is transferred in
under an hour, plus the time saved fixing the files. It does involve
taking the lid off the Humax and unplugging the HD - something you
may not be comfortable with.

What do you mean by "fixing the files"? Are you saying that the
eLinker software can introduce errors into an apparently successful
file transfer?

Matti

Yes - much as David (thread below) explains. Most of the time e-linked
files had to be run through correction software befre they could be
played or burned to DVD.

See my reply to David Hearn. I suspect that the errors you're
mentioning are in the original files as saved by the Humax.

Matti

Matti Lamprhey wrote:
"David Hearn" wrote...
Matti Lamprhey wrote:
"Rob" wrote...
There's an alternative to elinker on Digitalspy that I used that has
a nicer interface and deals with errors - I'm not sure if it fixes
the things you mention though.

I've ended up running an IDE cable from the Humax to the PC, and
using a utility available via digitalspy (by phew) to transfer
files - 2GB/min and no errors, so the whole disk is transferred in
under an hour, plus the time saved fixing the files. It does involve
taking the lid off the Humax and unplugging the HD - something you
may not be comfortable with.
What do you mean by "fixing the files"? Are you saying that the
eLinker software can introduce errors into an apparently successful
file transfer?
ELinker has no error correction in its protocols. If there is disk IO
occurring during the transfer, then you may miss some data in the
transfer. There is a tool which can transfer the file multiple times
to get the missed data (the chance of the data loss happening at the
same point is low).

Although eLinker doesn't correct errors, I believe that it detects them
and aborts the transmission of the file (code -8). I would be
interested to know if it's possible for errors introduced in the
transmission to go undetected. This would be proved by multiple
transmissions of the same file and finding a difference. But then what
would the -8 errors indicate?

No idea - never had a -8 error, but had plenty of transmissions which
have been corrupted (in minor but noticeable ways). One of the
admissions by Humax is that there is no error checking in the data
transfer, and it's on their To Do list.


The best way of transferring with the standard eLinker without the
errors is to be viewing a data-only channel (eg. 8) - and to not have
any recordings going at the same time.

I've read some threads on the Humax forums which discuss this topic, and
they indicate that the errors tend to be associated not with the Humax
end of the link but the nature of the USB hub & cabling and what's
running on the PC at the time. But I don't claim to have read all such
threads.

It's 100% a Humax problem - not the PC end. I've done it with a short,
good quality USB cable, no hubs etc and still had problems. Other
companies can write USB drivers and software which don't introduce
errors like this - and Humax are apparently going to try to fix the issue.

I used to get loads of errors, but then I bought a powered hub and this
reduced the incidence dramatically.

Interesting - I don't need a powered hub for a USB2 bus powered hard
drive which works at far greater data rates without any errors - why
would I need one for this?

D

Matti Lamprhey wrote:
"Rob" wrote...
Matti Lamprhey wrote:
"Rob" wrote...
There's an alternative to elinker on Digitalspy that I used that has
a nicer interface and deals with errors - I'm not sure if it fixes
the things you mention though.

I've ended up running an IDE cable from the Humax to the PC, and
using a utility available via digitalspy (by phew) to transfer
files - 2GB/min and no errors, so the whole disk is transferred in
under an hour, plus the time saved fixing the files. It does involve
taking the lid off the Humax and unplugging the HD - something you
may not be comfortable with.
What do you mean by "fixing the files"? Are you saying that the
eLinker software can introduce errors into an apparently successful
file transfer?

Matti
Yes - much as David (thread below) explains. Most of the time e-linked
files had to be run through correction software befre they could be
played or burned to DVD.

See my reply to David Hearn. I suspect that the errors you're
mentioning are in the original files as saved by the Humax.

Nope. This was demonstrated very easily by transferring the same file
twice. The errors occur in different places (and differing numbers).
Hence transferring the file twice (or more) gives the opportunity to
merge the 3 files together to remove the transmission introduced errors.
This is the 'fixing the files' you were asking about.

D

On 15 May 2006 11:11:36 -0700, "Nigel Whitfield"
wrote:

There are some guys in the Humax section on Digital Spy who are working
out the file format and trying to come up with a tool to read the hard
drives directly, after removing them from the box.

Obviously not much good if you're attached to your warranty...

Nigel.
There's also another alternative which doesn't involve opening the
Humax but uses different USB drivers. see
http://www.enigma.eclipse.co.uk/huma...Controller.htm.
This basically checks the file for errors and redownloads those parts.

Alan
Take DogForAWalk before replying by e-mail

wrote:
On 15 May 2006 11:11:36 -0700, "Nigel Whitfield"
wrote:

There are some guys in the Humax section on Digital Spy who are working
out the file format and trying to come up with a tool to read the hard
drives directly, after removing them from the box.

Obviously not much good if you're attached to your warranty...

Nigel.
There's also another alternative which doesn't involve opening the
Humax but uses different USB drivers. see
http://www.enigma.eclipse.co.uk/huma...Controller.htm.
This basically checks the file for errors and redownloads those parts.


Yep - I've used that one and it works well, although it's not much
quicker than elinker. Quite why Humax can't deal with this problem when
hobbyists can defeats me. You'd think it'd be in their interests to pay
one of the freelancers a couple of hundred quid to help produce
something serviceable.

Rob

"David Hearn" wrote...
Matti Lamprhey wrote:
"Rob" wrote...
Matti Lamprhey wrote:
"Rob" wrote...
There's an alternative to elinker on Digitalspy that I used that
has a nicer interface and deals with errors - I'm not sure if it
fixes the things you mention though.

I've ended up running an IDE cable from the Humax to the PC, and
using a utility available via digitalspy (by phew) to transfer
files - 2GB/min and no errors, so the whole disk is transferred in
under an hour, plus the time saved fixing the files. It does
involve taking the lid off the Humax and unplugging the HD -
something you may not be comfortable with.
What do you mean by "fixing the files"? Are you saying that the
eLinker software can introduce errors into an apparently successful
file transfer?

Matti
Yes - much as David (thread below) explains. Most of the time
e-linked files had to be run through correction software befre they
could be played or burned to DVD.

See my reply to David Hearn. I suspect that the errors you're
mentioning are in the original files as saved by the Humax.

Nope. This was demonstrated very easily by transferring the same file
twice. The errors occur in different places (and differing numbers).
Hence transferring the file twice (or more) gives the opportunity to
merge the 3 files together to remove the transmission introduced
errors. This is the 'fixing the files' you were asking about.

This sounds to me like the 'alternative' to eLinker, which I have used
in the past. This detects errors (like eLinker does), but instead of
simply aborting the file it marks the block as in error and continues,
then repeats the file from the start but only saves those blocks which
were marked as in error. This is necessary because the protocol doesn't
have a 'repeat that block' command!

So I ask again -- can you provide evidence that eLinker introduces
undetected transmission errors?

Matti

Matti Lamprhey wrote:
"David Hearn" wrote...
Matti Lamprhey wrote:
"Rob" wrote...
Matti Lamprhey wrote:
"Rob" wrote...
There's an alternative to elinker on Digitalspy that I used that
has a nicer interface and deals with errors - I'm not sure if it
fixes the things you mention though.

I've ended up running an IDE cable from the Humax to the PC, and
using a utility available via digitalspy (by phew) to transfer
files - 2GB/min and no errors, so the whole disk is transferred in
under an hour, plus the time saved fixing the files. It does
involve taking the lid off the Humax and unplugging the HD -
something you may not be comfortable with.
What do you mean by "fixing the files"? Are you saying that the
eLinker software can introduce errors into an apparently successful
file transfer?

Matti
Yes - much as David (thread below) explains. Most of the time
e-linked files had to be run through correction software befre they
could be played or burned to DVD.
See my reply to David Hearn. I suspect that the errors you're
mentioning are in the original files as saved by the Humax.
Nope. This was demonstrated very easily by transferring the same file
twice. The errors occur in different places (and differing numbers).
Hence transferring the file twice (or more) gives the opportunity to
merge the 3 files together to remove the transmission introduced
errors. This is the 'fixing the files' you were asking about.

This sounds to me like the 'alternative' to eLinker, which I have used
in the past. This detects errors (like eLinker does), but instead of
simply aborting the file it marks the block as in error and continues,
then repeats the file from the start but only saves those blocks which
were marked as in error. This is necessary because the protocol doesn't
have a 'repeat that block' command!

So I ask again -- can you provide evidence that eLinker introduces
undetected transmission errors?

Matti

The original tool I used was a standalone tool which used the multiple
transfers created from eLinker and then merged them. This tool did not
do the transfers itself, it was a tool run on the PC on the output mpeg
files, merging multiple ones into a single one. I understand this tool
has now been extended to do the transfers itself - bypassing eLinker -
but the problems are down to the protocol used - not the transfer software.

The guy who wrote this tool started this thread:
http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/...=elinker+error

A quote: "As some will know, there is no error checking / correction on
the USB connection so many errors creep in, seemingly randomly, during
the USB transfer process."

His new tool, the one which does the transfer here, is on this thread:
http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/...hlight=elinker)

A little quote from this is:

"but does it not work much the same as his previous file repair utility
did? It'll scan the file once it's completed and then request what else
is needed to complete it, without corruption? I'm sure it's all in his
notes.

Oh, and thank you very much for this software. It's very useful having
error correction built in, rather than having to wait around for media
elinker to finish transferring before manually clicking to re-send the
file."

That's all the evidence I can give.
D

Rob wrote:
wrote:
On 15 May 2006 11:11:36 -0700, "Nigel Whitfield"
wrote:

There are some guys in the Humax section on Digital Spy who are working
out the file format and trying to come up with a tool to read the hard
drives directly, after removing them from the box.

Obviously not much good if you're attached to your warranty...

Nigel.
There's also another alternative which doesn't involve opening the
Humax but uses different USB drivers. see
http://www.enigma.eclipse.co.uk/huma...Controller.htm.
This basically checks the file for errors and redownloads those parts.


Yep - I've used that one and it works well, although it's not much
quicker than elinker. Quite why Humax can't deal with this problem when
hobbyists can defeats me. You'd think it'd be in their interests to pay
one of the freelancers a couple of hundred quid to help produce
something serviceable.

Rob

The problem is in the USB drivers, not the transfer software - and to
date, no-one, even the hobbyists has been able to fix that.

D