Tivo Wishlist, aka Things Tivo should do

On 2006-08-21, Randy S. wrote:
Jerry Cloe wrote:
My tivo is getting older now, so it has caused me to start thinking about
it. I'd like to hear others opinions on my thoughts.

Things Tivo should do:

If I have more than one tivo, and I have a scheduling conflict, the first
tivo should ask the additional tivos to record the show.

As noted, the variables become complex. It's far simpler to just put
more tuners in one box (which is exactly what your

As soon as the units become sufficiently networked to exchange
shows then they are effectively one machine. Getting a house full of
tivos to all cooperate would not be a huge task. They would just chug
along until they got updated instructions from master machine.

single-master/multiple-slave setup is without the additional expense of
extra cases/power supplies, etc. You can already transfer shows between
Tivos, so that's not an issue). The S3 will have multiple tuners and

Sure it is. Not all Tivos are so equipped and there's certainly
need for the Tivo equivalent of a network DVD player.

[deletia]

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On 2006-08-22, Randy S. wrote:
Jerry Cloe wrote:
If I have more than one tivo, and I have a scheduling conflict, the first
tivo should ask the additional tivos to record the show.
As noted, the variables become complex. It's far simpler to just put more
tuners in one box (which is exactly what your single-master/multiple-slave
setup is without the additional expense of extra cases/power supplies,
etc. You can already transfer shows between Tivos, so that's not an
issue). The S3 will have multiple tuners and the new DT standalones
already have 2 analog tuners.

The multiple boxes still has an advantage if I want a box in the living
room, den, master bedroom, and maybe the kids room. One box just simply
needs to become the "master".

Still not really an issue as long as you can do tivo-to-tivo transfers.
One Tivo with multiple tuners would solve the problem without complex
inter-unit scheduling.
[deletia]

Actually, "juggling" multiple tuners in multiple boxes can be
pretty easy. Just either assign a box to a particular persons interests
or just make it a complete slave.

This also nicely gets around the problem of conflicting preferences.

--
Negligence will never equal intent, no matter how you
attempt to distort reality to do so. This is what separates |||
the real butchers from average Joes (or Fritzes) caught up in / | \
events not in their control.

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The multiple boxes still has an advantage if I want a box in the living
room, den, master bedroom, and maybe the kids room. One box just simply
needs to become the "master".
Still not really an issue as long as you can do tivo-to-tivo transfers.
One Tivo with multiple tuners would solve the problem without complex
inter-unit scheduling.
[deletia]

Actually, "juggling" multiple tuners in multiple boxes can be
pretty easy. Just either assign a box to a particular persons interests
or just make it a complete slave.

This also nicely gets around the problem of conflicting preferences.


I don't think there's any real difference between multiple boxes having
one tuner each, or a single box having multiple tuners, other than the
former having added complexity due to master/slave commands.

However your separate preferences point is a good one, and I think more
than a few folks in this group are using exactly that along with MRV to
get that exact result.

Randy S.

On 2006-08-23, Randy S. wrote:

The multiple boxes still has an advantage if I want a box in the living
room, den, master bedroom, and maybe the kids room. One box just simply
needs to become the "master".
Still not really an issue as long as you can do tivo-to-tivo transfers.
One Tivo with multiple tuners would solve the problem without complex
inter-unit scheduling.
[deletia]

Actually, "juggling" multiple tuners in multiple boxes can be
pretty easy. Just either assign a box to a particular persons interests
or just make it a complete slave.

This also nicely gets around the problem of conflicting preferences.


I don't think there's any real difference between multiple boxes having
one tuner each, or a single box having multiple tuners, other than the
former having added complexity due to master/slave commands.

In a multiprocess, timesharing system, it doesn't really matter
where another process is. It can be on the same system board, on another
NUMA connected system board, on another machine on the LAN or another
machine on the other side of the planet. As long as you design your
interprocess communications accordingly, it's not going to be a problem.

Tivo could sorely use more and better multitasking.

"background updates" of changes triggered by reordering the priority
list for season passes and wishlists would be a great start.

My Atari ST seemed to multitask better.


However your separate preferences point is a good one, and I think more
than a few folks in this group are using exactly that along with MRV to
get that exact result.

Randy S.


--
Apple: Because a large harddrive is for power users.
|||
/ | \

My tivo is getting older now, so it has caused me to start thinking about
it. I'd like to hear others opinions on my thoughts.

Things Tivo should do:

If I have more than one tivo, and I have a scheduling conflict, the first
tivo should ask the additional tivos to record the show.

As noted, the variables become complex. It's far simpler to just put
more tuners in one box (which is exactly what your

As soon as the units become sufficiently networked to exchange
shows then they are effectively one machine. Getting a house full of
tivos to all cooperate would not be a huge task. They would just chug
along until they got updated instructions from master machine.

But you may still need a "take this Tivo out of service" operation
(temporary or permanent). (even if you're just lending it to someone
or taking it with you on vacation). Even if it doesn't send shows
already recorded back to the others, it should send *scheduled*
shows back to the others to reassign them to other machines.

The multiple boxes still has an advantage if I want a box in the living
room, den, master bedroom, and maybe the kids room. One box just simply
needs to become the "master".
Still not really an issue as long as you can do tivo-to-tivo transfers.
One Tivo with multiple tuners would solve the problem without complex
inter-unit scheduling.
[deletia]

Actually, "juggling" multiple tuners in multiple boxes can be
pretty easy. Just either assign a box to a particular persons interests
or just make it a complete slave.

This also nicely gets around the problem of conflicting preferences.


I don't think there's any real difference between multiple boxes having
one tuner each, or a single box having multiple tuners, other than the
former having added complexity due to master/slave commands.

Except during cluster reconfigurations (disconnecting one Tivo from
the group and expecting it to have, or not have, certain types of
shows on it when it leaves).

In a multiprocess, timesharing system, it doesn't really matter
where another process is.

It may matter where the data is. Examples:

- This old Tivo has a failing hard disk, and since we've got 8
others anyway, stop recording anything NEW on it now except
suggestions. Also, find someplace to put all the Star Trek episodes
currently on this machine and move them there by next week, when
we'll retire it.

- Johnny wants to take the removable USB disk drive (and maybe the
Tivo it's attached to) to college with him in 3 weeks. Record all
of Johnny's favorite programs on that drive. Record all the other
stuff on other machines.

- To ensure family harmony, we need individual quotas. Since these
aren't implemented, there's Mom's drive, Dad's drive, and the Kids'
drive, with most of the season passes specifying a preferred drive.
Anyone stealing space on another drive gets to eat one of Grandma's
Fear Factor lunches.

- This Tivo just broke with loud screeching noises. Reassign all
the programs it was supposed to record to other machines immediately.
Also, when it's repaired, start using it again.

It can be on the same system board, on another
NUMA connected system board, on another machine on the LAN or another
machine on the other side of the planet. As long as you design your
interprocess communications accordingly, it's not going to be a problem.

Data transfer times can be significant. Mass intelligent background
file relocation can make this easier. Assuming you have 3 nearly-full
drives of 600 hours of randomly assigned shows, and you tell it:
move all the Star Trek to drive A, Oprah to drive B, and Fear Factor
to drive C. You (the Tivo) figure out how long it will take to do
it, and tell me, and handle how to juggle stuff so no drive runs
out of space during the transfers. I'll come back in 3 days and
expect it to be done (that's when the divorce is expected to be
finalized). Oh, yes, and I still get to record and watch shows
while you're doing this.

Tivo could sorely use more and better multitasking.

"background updates" of changes triggered by reordering the priority
list for season passes and wishlists would be a great start.

"background migration" of files would be nice also.

However your separate preferences point is a good one, and I think more
than a few folks in this group are using exactly that along with MRV to
get that exact result.

My Atari ST seemed to multitask better.

Oh, you're one of THOSE people. That just explains sooo much.

On 2006-08-23, Gordon Burditt wrote:
My tivo is getting older now, so it has caused me to start thinking about
it. I'd like to hear others opinions on my thoughts.

Things Tivo should do:

If I have more than one tivo, and I have a scheduling conflict, the first
tivo should ask the additional tivos to record the show.

As noted, the variables become complex. It's far simpler to just put
more tuners in one box (which is exactly what your

As soon as the units become sufficiently networked to exchange
shows then they are effectively one machine. Getting a house full of
tivos to all cooperate would not be a huge task. They would just chug
along until they got updated instructions from master machine.

But you may still need a "take this Tivo out of service" operation

That problem still exists for your tuners regardless of whether
or not they exist on the same backplane or not. You have to worry about
hardware failures and replacements and whatnot.

I dunno, mebbe Tivo Corp just takes the approach of "crash and
burn on glitch".

(temporary or permanent). (even if you're just lending it to someone
or taking it with you on vacation). Even if it doesn't send shows
already recorded back to the others, it should send *scheduled*
shows back to the others to reassign them to other machines.




--
OpenDoc is moot when Apple is your one stop iShop. |||
/ | \

On 2006-08-24, Gordon Burditt wrote:
The multiple boxes still has an advantage if I want a box in the living
room, den, master bedroom, and maybe the kids room. One box just simply
needs to become the "master".
Still not really an issue as long as you can do tivo-to-tivo transfers.
One Tivo with multiple tuners would solve the problem without complex
inter-unit scheduling.
[deletia]

Actually, "juggling" multiple tuners in multiple boxes can be
pretty easy. Just either assign a box to a particular persons interests
or just make it a complete slave.

This also nicely gets around the problem of conflicting preferences.


I don't think there's any real difference between multiple boxes having
one tuner each, or a single box having multiple tuners, other than the
former having added complexity due to master/slave commands.

Except during cluster reconfigurations (disconnecting one Tivo from
the group and expecting it to have, or not have, certain types of
shows on it when it leaves).

Shared storage makes this a lot simpler.

Although that's probably going to be a problem in most
households. Then again, you really need a good home
network for any network Tivo configuration to make
sense anyways.


In a multiprocess, timesharing system, it doesn't really matter
where another process is.

It may matter where the data is. Examples:

- This old Tivo has a failing hard disk, and since we've got 8

This is a problem already. The current Tivos aren't designed
to tolerate a drive failure or a disk replacement well.

others anyway, stop recording anything NEW on it now except
suggestions. Also, find someplace to put all the Star Trek episodes
currently on this machine and move them there by next week, when
we'll retire it.

Actually, if you present all of the Tivo storage as a network
LVM you can just mark the bad storage as such and have the LVM manage
the task of isolating the disk and migrating files off of it.


- Johnny wants to take the removable USB disk drive (and maybe the
Tivo it's attached to) to college with him in 3 weeks. Record all
of Johnny's favorite programs on that drive. Record all the other
stuff on other machines.

This is a Tivo induced problem.

If the files aren't proprietary then moving them around
and using them with some other device becomes remarkably
less problematic.

Dish already has a solution of this sort BTW.


- To ensure family harmony, we need individual quotas. Since these
aren't implemented, there's Mom's drive, Dad's drive, and the Kids'

That's a problem even with the current architecture.

That would be a handy feature just for the S3.

drive, with most of the season passes specifying a preferred drive.
Anyone stealing space on another drive gets to eat one of Grandma's
Fear Factor lunches.

- This Tivo just broke with loud screeching noises. Reassign all
the programs it was supposed to record to other machines immediately.
Also, when it's repaired, start using it again.

A network lvm would take care of that quite nicely. Tivo corp
might even get some good karma from working with the Linux lvm
project already in place.


It can be on the same system board, on another
NUMA connected system board, on another machine on the LAN or another
machine on the other side of the planet. As long as you design your
interprocess communications accordingly, it's not going to be a problem.

Data transfer times can be significant. Mass intelligent background
file relocation can make this easier. Assuming you have 3 nearly-full

True. This sort of thing requries a real network.

drives of 600 hours of randomly assigned shows, and you tell it:
move all the Star Trek to drive A, Oprah to drive B, and Fear Factor
to drive C. You (the Tivo) figure out how long it will take to do
it, and tell me, and handle how to juggle stuff so no drive runs
out of space during the transfers. I'll come back in 3 days and
expect it to be done (that's when the divorce is expected to be
finalized). Oh, yes, and I still get to record and watch shows
while you're doing this.

Tivo could sorely use more and better multitasking.

"background updates" of changes triggered by reordering the priority
list for season passes and wishlists would be a great start.

"background migration" of files would be nice also.

However your separate preferences point is a good one, and I think more
than a few folks in this group are using exactly that along with MRV to
get that exact result.


--
OpenDoc is moot when Apple is your one stop iShop. |||
/ | \

On 2006-08-24, Howard wrote:
JEDIDIAH wrote in :

As soon as the units become sufficiently networked to exchange
shows then they are effectively one machine. Getting a house full of
tivos to all cooperate would not be a huge task. They would just chug
along until they got updated instructions from master machine.

Write the code, test it, submit it to TiVo.


If I write anything like that it's going under the GPL.

--
OpenDoc is moot when Apple is your one stop iShop. |||
/ | \