OTA Signal comes and goes

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

We just purchased a new HDTV - RCA rear projection tv. We use Dish
Network, and since they wanted $200 for their HD receiver we decided to
try and use our existing antenna to get our local HD channels. We live
near Indianapolis but the stations are about 40 miles away. We hooked
up the existing antenna on our roof, it was pretty old but had a
preamp. We got it hooked up and Yay! All our local HD channels came in
-- for that first night anyway. By the next morning all but on
station was gone. We messed with the antenna rotator, etc. The whole
week was hit and miss. Some days we had the HD others, they were gone.
Even the analog channels came and went - one day great the next day
mostly snow. There was never any severe weather in the area - the only
changes were humidity.

So we decided we need a new antenna, this one was over 15 years old.
We checked antenna web and got the size it said we needed with a
preamp. This one is supposed to reach stations 100-190 miles anyway.
We got it set it up, started it up and Yay! all the channels were
there --- for the first night anyway. The next day, gone again. What
the HECK!! The next thing we are going to try is to replace the cable
coming from the antenna and to try to shorten that somewhat - since
it's a bit long.

Is there anything else anyone can suggest?? This is driving me insane.
One day - great tv, the next none.

Is there potentially anything that I can do through the dish receiver.
We have an early model DVR - the 501 think.

Thanks for any suggestions.

"astribling" wrote (in part):

We just purchased a new HDTV . . . we decided to
try and use our existing antenna to get our local HD channels. We live
near Indianapolis but the stations are about 40 miles away. We hooked
up the existing antenna on our roof, it was pretty old but had a
preamp. We got it hooked up and Yay! All our local HD channels came in
-- for that first night anyway. By the next morning all but on
station was gone. We messed with the antenna rotator, etc. The whole
week was hit and miss. Some days we had the HD others, they were gone.
Even the analog channels came and went - one day great the next day
mostly snow. There was never any severe weather in the area - the only
changes were humidity.

So we decided we need a new antenna, this one was over 15 years old.
We checked antenna web and got the size it said we needed with a
preamp. This one is supposed to reach stations 100-190 miles anyway.
We got it set it up, started it up and Yay! all the channels were
there --- for the first night anyway. The next day, gone again. What
the HECK!! The next thing we are going to try is to replace the cable
coming from the antenna and to try to shorten that somewhat - since
it's a bit long.

Is there anything else anyone can suggest?? This is driving me insane.
One day - great tv, the next none.

With intermittent reception on an old system I'm betting it's the
cable, particularly the connectors. Good chance they're corroded.
The center wire may be broken and barely making contact. If it's a
mast-mounted preamp it needs power from the unit at the other end of
the cable. If it loses that, no signal. Of course it could be any
kind of electrical problem inside the amp or power supply, but that's
less likely to be intermittent.

Don't feel bad about your new deep-fringe antenna. It was probably
time to replace the old one anyway. Now treat yourself to some
outdoor-rated RG-6. And read up on how to weatherproof the
connectors.

Del Mibbler

"astribling" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

We just purchased a new HDTV - RCA rear projection tv. We use Dish
Network, and since they wanted $200 for their HD receiver we decided to
try and use our existing antenna to get our local HD channels. We live
near Indianapolis but the stations are about 40 miles away. We hooked
up the existing antenna on our roof, it was pretty old but had a
preamp. We got it hooked up and Yay! All our local HD channels came in
-- for that first night anyway. By the next morning all but on
station was gone. We messed with the antenna rotator, etc. The whole
week was hit and miss. Some days we had the HD others, they were gone.
Even the analog channels came and went - one day great the next day
mostly snow. There was never any severe weather in the area - the only
changes were humidity.

So we decided we need a new antenna, this one was over 15 years old.
We checked antenna web and got the size it said we needed with a
preamp. This one is supposed to reach stations 100-190 miles anyway.
We got it set it up, started it up and Yay! all the channels were
there --- for the first night anyway. The next day, gone again. What
the HECK!! The next thing we are going to try is to replace the cable
coming from the antenna and to try to shorten that somewhat - since
it's a bit long.

Is there anything else anyone can suggest?? This is driving me insane.
One day - great tv, the next none.

Is there potentially anything that I can do through the dish receiver.
We have an early model DVR - the 501 think.

Thanks for any suggestions.

The first thing you should do is to get rid of all splitters.
There will be a menu item on your TV that displays signal strength. Check
that out when the thing is working, and when it is not. You may find that
they are not even transmitting all the time. The most likely time for them
to be on is between 8 and 11 PM. On the other hand, you may find that you
get a reading of 35 when it works, and 25 when it does not. That is just due
to changes in atmospheric conditions. If you get a good picture on analog,
and no HD, they are just not up to snuff yet.
40 miles is not all that far. Most of the time I get 3 out of 5 stations
from 75 miles away on HD. All are on UHF. On the other hand, there are 8
local stations 25 miles away; usually, I do not get NBC or PBS, but I do get
PBS from 2 other stations 40 and 45 miles away. NBC from 75 miles out
usually comes in.
Claims of 100 to 190 miles antennas are just advertising hype. Your chances
of getting a signal from 190 miles under normal atmospheric conditions out
are slim to nil with any antenna.
I took a look at the Indianapolis TV lineup. CBS-9 is Mickey Mouse, but the
others should come in if they are at their allowed power.
How high up is your antenna? Get it as high as possible. 5 feet above the
top of the chimneyis practical. Ask other people what their experience is.

Tam.

Thank you both for your replies!

Del, we did get a new preamp with the new antenna, so I'm assuming
that's not the problem. But the cable is definitely old and is spliced
together with connectors in a few places so that will be our next
replacement. Thanks!

Tam, It's funny that you say the CBS outof Indy is Mickey Mouse,
because that is the ONE consistent channel that we do get LOL. It's
CBS 8, actually. When all the others go out, it still comes in. I
looked for a signal strength menu item but didn't find anything, and
it's not listed in the tv instructions. The one splitter that we are
using is right at the tv so that we can split it and attach to the
digital and analog inputs. I did remove that but that didn't seem to
make any difference. But, as I mentioned above, the cable we are
running is not one continuous piece, it is connected in a few places,
so we'll replace that.

Right now the antenna is up as high as we can get it without getting a
tower. And we don't really have hills here. However, we do have a lot
of trees around us. Can that cause problems?

Thanks again!
Alice

"astribling" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thank you both for your replies!

Del, we did get a new preamp with the new antenna, so I'm assuming
that's not the problem. But the cable is definitely old and is spliced
together with connectors in a few places so that will be our next
replacement. Thanks!

Tam, It's funny that you say the CBS outof Indy is Mickey Mouse,
because that is the ONE consistent channel that we do get LOL. It's
CBS 8, actually. When all the others go out, it still comes in. I
looked for a signal strength menu item but didn't find anything, and
it's not listed in the tv instructions. The one splitter that we are
using is right at the tv so that we can split it and attach to the
digital and analog inputs. I did remove that but that didn't seem to
make any difference. But, as I mentioned above, the cable we are
running is not one continuous piece, it is connected in a few places,
so we'll replace that.

Right now the antenna is up as high as we can get it without getting a
tower. And we don't really have hills here. However, we do have a lot
of trees around us. Can that cause problems?

Thanks again!
Alice

We've had no problems at all with our trees here, and we've been viewing for
about 6 years, FWIW.

Have you been to AVS forum, they have some location specific sections that
may help too.

What ant and amp do you have
"astribling" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thank you both for your replies!

Del, we did get a new preamp with the new antenna, so I'm assuming
that's not the problem. But the cable is definitely old and is spliced
together with connectors in a few places so that will be our next
replacement. Thanks!

Tam, It's funny that you say the CBS outof Indy is Mickey Mouse,
because that is the ONE consistent channel that we do get LOL. It's
CBS 8, actually. When all the others go out, it still comes in. I
looked for a signal strength menu item but didn't find anything, and
it's not listed in the tv instructions. The one splitter that we are
using is right at the tv so that we can split it and attach to the
digital and analog inputs. I did remove that but that didn't seem to
make any difference. But, as I mentioned above, the cable we are
running is not one continuous piece, it is connected in a few places,
so we'll replace that.

Right now the antenna is up as high as we can get it without getting a
tower. And we don't really have hills here. However, we do have a lot
of trees around us. Can that cause problems?

Thanks again!
Alice

astribling wrote:
Thank you both for your replies!

Del, we did get a new preamp with the new antenna, so I'm assuming
that's not the problem. But the cable is definitely old and is spliced
together with connectors in a few places so that will be our next
replacement. Thanks!

Tam, It's funny that you say the CBS outof Indy is Mickey Mouse,
because that is the ONE consistent channel that we do get LOL. It's
CBS 8, actually. When all the others go out, it still comes in. I
looked for a signal strength menu item but didn't find anything, and
it's not listed in the tv instructions. The one splitter that we are
using is right at the tv so that we can split it and attach to the
digital and analog inputs. I did remove that but that didn't seem to
make any difference. But, as I mentioned above, the cable we are
running is not one continuous piece, it is connected in a few places,
so we'll replace that.

Right now the antenna is up as high as we can get it without getting a
tower. And we don't really have hills here. However, we do have a lot
of trees around us. Can that cause problems?

Thanks again!
Alice

There can be signal strength issues in daytime versus nighttime with
better reception at night, but not like your problem. Forty miles is not
that far for a rooftop antenna, provided there is no mountain in the way.

When the digital channels go away the next day, what happens when you
do a re-scan with the TV? Does the TV find any of them or they all just
gone? What model RCA RPTV do you have? The manual should on-line so we
can look up to see what the TV provides for a signal strength meter. Has
to buried in the sub-menus somewhere. Replacing the co-axial cable with
quality RG-6 is a good place to start, but don't buy the cable at Best
Buy and similar electronic chain stores. They have gotten into serious
gouging with connectors & cables. Less expensive on-line or at Lowe's or
Home Depot.

For local help on the Indianapolis OTA stations, check the local
thread for your area at www.avsforum.com at
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=186022. The FAQ in the
HDTV Local Reception forum can also be very useful.

Alan F

Hello again,

To answer some of your questions:

We are using an antenna from Radio Shack - model VU-190 XR. We checked
for our CEA rating that we needed and this one fit. We also have a
preamp from Radio Shack that we bought separately. Not sure of the
model though.

Our tv is RCA HD rear projection model - R52WH77. I looked for it
online, but the manual I found was exactly the same one I have here. I
can't find anywhere that I can check my signal strength. (I'm usually
fairly technically savy, but this has me stumped)

The tv channels can be there one hour, and then 2 hours later they are
gone. If I rescan the next day sometimes they will be there, sometimes
a few will be there. Sometimes none. There is no rhyme or reason to
it. Weather has been fairly consistent except for maybe humidity.
There are no real hills between here and Indy. We do have a lot of
trees though.

We had as many as 17 (that includes the additional weather channels)
digital channels come in one day. The next day, only 3 (or really 1 -
CBS plus it's 2 weather and radar channels). This morning I scanned,
and I got CBS, NBC (which only lasted about an hour) and CBS out of
Lafayette, which is completely the other direction -- don't understand
that one at all.

The analog channels also change constantly. Very snowy one day, fairly
clear the next.

So you can see how this would be very frustrating. Arggggggggggggg!

We will definitely swap out the cable (as soon as my husband can get
back up on the roof)

Thanks Again!
Alice

"astribling" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thank you both for your replies!

Del, we did get a new preamp with the new antenna, so I'm assuming
that's not the problem. But the cable is definitely old and is spliced
together with connectors in a few places so that will be our next
replacement. Thanks!

Tam, It's funny that you say the CBS outof Indy is Mickey Mouse,
because that is the ONE consistent channel that we do get LOL. It's
CBS 8, actually. When all the others go out, it still comes in. I
looked for a signal strength menu item but didn't find anything, and
it's not listed in the tv instructions. The one splitter that we are
using is right at the tv so that we can split it and attach to the
digital and analog inputs. I did remove that but that didn't seem to
make any difference. But, as I mentioned above, the cable we are
running is not one continuous piece, it is connected in a few places,
so we'll replace that.

Right now the antenna is up as high as we can get it without getting a
tower. And we don't really have hills here. However, we do have a lot
of trees around us. Can that cause problems?

Thanks again!
Alice

Radiotvworld must have old information. They show WISH, CBS operating at
about 10% power. Actually, it is both 8 and 9. It shows it as 8 on analog,
with the DT on channel 9. WRTV is on 6, with digital on 25. If you punch in
the real number, for instance 9 or 25, you shouldn't have to rescan. Do you
have the skinny end of the antenna ponted at the stations?

40 miles is not even fringe area, and should be line of sight to you
assuming the station antennas are 1000 feet up, or so. Could very well be
the coax, or more specifically, the connectors. If you can't use premade
cables, get the coax and the connectors from the same place, and make sure
they are meant to fit together. You will either need a crimping tool, or use
twist-on connectors. If there is a separate balun,replace that too if you
did not. Don't forget the coax between the balun and the amplifier. I hope
you got an amplifier that mounts on the antenna. Cable amplifier do not work
right for OTA.

Trees would affect the signal, especially on UHF, and all your DT except for
CBS is UHF. If that is the problem, it will go away after the leaves fall.
( I know that is not a good answer).

Make sure the TV digital input is programmed for "antenna" and not "cable".
If you set it to cable, you won't get any UHF stations.

Tam

astribling wrote:
Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

We just purchased a new HDTV - RCA rear projection tv. We use Dish
Network, and since they wanted $200 for their HD receiver we decided
to
try and use our existing antenna to get our local HD channels. We
live
near Indianapolis but the stations are about 40 miles away. We
hooked
up the existing antenna on our roof, it was pretty old but had a
preamp. We got it hooked up and Yay! All our local HD channels came
in
-- for that first night anyway. By the next morning all but on
station was gone. We messed with the antenna rotator, etc. The
whole
week was hit and miss. Some days we had the HD others, they were
gone.
Even the analog channels came and went - one day great the next day
mostly snow. There was never any severe weather in the area - the
only
changes were humidity.

So we decided we need a new antenna, this one was over 15 years old.
We checked antenna web and got the size it said we needed with a
preamp. This one is supposed to reach stations 100-190 miles
anyway.
We got it set it up, started it up and Yay! all the channels were
there --- for the first night anyway. The next day, gone again.
What
the HECK!! The next thing we are going to try is to replace the
cable
coming from the antenna and to try to shorten that somewhat - since
it's a bit long.

Is there anything else anyone can suggest?? This is driving me
insane.
One day - great tv, the next none.

Is there potentially anything that I can do through the dish
receiver.
We have an early model DVR - the 501 think.

Thanks for any suggestions.

While I'm not a big fan of Radio Shack antennas (Winegard bias), that
certainly seems as if it should do the job without a preamp - unless
the locals are running VERY low ( 1-10 kW) power. You said the old
antenna was 15 years old - not old enough to be using (OUCH) twinlead
was it? Get some RG-6 cable with weatherproof boots for outdoors
(silicone grease NOT BATHTUB CAULK helps on the connectors outdoors) to
reduce corrosion. With normal power levels, a preamp shouldn't be
needed unless its a real long feedline (200 ft or more). The cable can
have a profound effect on the performance. Use as few connectors in
line as possible to reduce losses. I use a much less gain antenna 35
miles out with a 3 way splitter and no preamp and have almost no
issues. Take heart, it can be done.

GG