Death of OTA Broadcasting

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006, Bob Miller wrote:
that will mean selling HD and only broadcasting SD free. They can either
sell HD via cable or OTA using MPEG4 or both. Either way free HD OTA is
a goner IMO.

There is no sign of such happening, anywhere. This is a Psycho Bob Miller
masturbatory wet dream, not reality.

If broadcasters lose all must carry then expect total chaos as broadcasters
will have to depend on OTA for survival.

One wonders how, in Psycho Bob's whacko imagination, "status quo" is
equivalent to "total chaos".

Cable and satellite systems carry one channel of programming per OTA
broadcaster. If the programming is attractive, it will get viewers; if
unattractive, it will not.

Secondary channels are just that: secondary. Cable and satellite systems
won't carry them unless there's a reason.

If they lose all must carry then expect a full court press for a better
codec and modulation.

They've already lost, and neither the codec nor modulation will change.

8-VSB won in the US years ago, and only a few crackpots (such as Psycho
Bob) still nurse hopes of changing it.

MPEG2 is the worldwide standard for digital television. Yes, for
COFDM-based digital television too.

MPEG4? Ha. All you have to do is compare an HDTV program in MPEG2 OTA
with the same programming in MPEG4 via satellite. The satellite picture
is horribly overcompressed. That isn't a problem for Psycho Bob, because
he doesn't care about HDTV, and in fact has made it clear that he wants
HDTV to die.

Besides more compression, what does MPEG4 buy? DRM. Right; the American
consumer is going to beg for more DRM. Like when hell freezes over.

AFAIK, there is no complete implementation of MPEG4 anywhere; most of
MPEG4 is optional to implement. There is a huge amount of confusion over
the necessary licenses needed for MPEG4 or which companies hold patents
covering the aspect of MPEG4 for a proposed implementation.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

Bob Miller wrote:

They can either sell HD via cable or OTA
using MPEG4 or both. Either way free HD OTA is a goner IMO.

SD will be the only thing in the free and clear with the exception of
maybe the SuperBowl and the like, special events.

Bob Miller

You have been so wrong about so many things in the past what makes you
think that you have this right? My bet is that you will be 100 percent
wrong.
--
Bill R.

Remove nospam_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

Bill R wrote:

Bob Miller wrote:


They can either sell HD via cable or OTA using MPEG4 or both. Either
way free HD OTA is a goner IMO.
SD will be the only thing in the free and clear with the exception of
maybe the SuperBowl and the like, special events.

Bob Miller


You have been so wrong about so many things in the past what makes you
think that you have this right? My bet is that you will be 100 percent
wrong.

He has a track record of 0-for-all. I don't see any reason for that to
change.

Matthew

--
You can bet that a week after Daguerre took the first photograph,
vendors were selling feelthy pictures on the streets of Paris.

Thomas A. Horsley on alt.tv.tech.hdtv

Mark Crispin wrote:
On Thu, 10 Aug 2006, Bob Miller wrote:
that will mean selling HD and only broadcasting SD free. They can
either sell HD via cable or OTA using MPEG4 or both. Either way free
HD OTA is a goner IMO.

There is no sign of such happening, anywhere. This is a Psycho Bob
Miller masturbatory wet dream, not reality.

No sign? Broadcasters are already selling their OTA content to cable.
Sinclair is asking a dollar a sub per month plus $40 million up front
from one cable company. As soon as multicast must carry is a lock or is
lost definitely they will proceed to plug the OTA free delivery of such
content. Giving it away is at odds with charging for it. They will not
do both.


If broadcasters lose all must carry then expect total chaos as
broadcasters will have to depend on OTA for survival.

One wonders how, in Psycho Bob's whacko imagination, "status quo" is
equivalent to "total chaos".

Cable and satellite systems carry one channel of programming per OTA
broadcaster. If the programming is attractive, it will get viewers; if
unattractive, it will not.

Secondary channels are just that: secondary. Cable and satellite
systems won't carry them unless there's a reason.

If they lose all must carry then expect a full court press for a
better codec and modulation.

They've already lost, and neither the codec nor modulation will change.

That is news to me. Maybe you had better tell broadcasters of this
momentous event. AFAIK must carry is still in full force.

8-VSB won in the US years ago, and only a few crackpots (such as Psycho
Bob) still nurse hopes of changing it.

MPEG2 is the worldwide standard for digital television. Yes, for
COFDM-based digital television too.

MPEG4 is being used in France with DVB-T COFDM. This is the standard
going forward.


MPEG4? Ha. All you have to do is compare an HDTV program in MPEG2 OTA
with the same programming in MPEG4 via satellite. The satellite picture
is horribly overcompressed. That isn't a problem for Psycho Bob,
because he doesn't care about HDTV, and in fact has made it clear that
he wants HDTV to die.

What a particular used does with any given codec is up to them. It is
not an indictment of the codec. MPEG4 is far better than MPEG2. They
both can be misused. I believe the satellite use of MPEG4 is to re
compress already compressed MPEG2 content. Not a good idea.

Besides more compression, what does MPEG4 buy? DRM. Right; the
American consumer is going to beg for more DRM. Like when hell freezes
over.

Since when was it up to the consumer?

AFAIK, there is no complete implementation of MPEG4 anywhere; most of
MPEG4 is optional to implement. There is a huge amount of confusion
over the necessary licenses needed for MPEG4 or which companies hold
patents covering the aspect of MPEG4 for a proposed implementation.

And everyone including broadcasters will use it. It is just a matter of
when it will be allowed for use with the one SD channel which is all
that broadcasters have to transmit in their 6 MHz channel. There was a
reason broadcasters made sure the law only said SD after all.


Bob Miller


-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

"Thumper" wrote in message
...
**** you. You have a lot of nerve calling someone else stupid.
Thumper

If the shoe fits you then wear it.

We all know what this is really all about. You jumped on my case without
putting your brain in gear and I made you look like a dumbass in return.
Actually, you did that all yourself.

You have been stalking my post ever since.

Ill give you some good heartfelt advice:

Turn off you computer.
Take a shower.
Put on clean clothes.
Go outside.
Walk or drive to different places of social interaction.
Make REAL friends.

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006, Bob Miller wrote:
that will mean selling HD and only broadcasting SD free. They can either
sell HD via cable or OTA using MPEG4 or both. Either way free HD OTA is a
goner IMO.
There is no sign of such happening, anywhere. This is a Psycho Bob Miller
masturbatory wet dream, not reality.
No sign? Broadcasters are already selling their OTA content to cable.
Sinclair is asking a dollar a sub per month plus $40 million up front from
one cable company.

Another Psycho Bob Miller non-sequitor.

Let's follow the logic of the Psycho Bob:
. Psycho Bob Proposition: Sinclair asks $1/subscriber-month + $40 million
from one cable company to carry its OTA content.
. Psycho Bob Conclusion: Therefore, free HD OTA is a goner.

Now, let's leave the fantasies of Psycho Bob and venture back to reality,
and consider what Sinclair is.

Sinclair is a sleazy lowest-common-denominator broadcasting company that
owns some network affiliates in small and medium markets. Reportedly,
instead of upgrading to HD, Sinclair packs in a bunch of SD channels in
multicast.

Sinclair was the entity that banged the drum the loudest for COFDM until
the FCC finally say "no, no, 1000 times no." Psycho Bob is still fighting
that long-lost battle.

Sinclair attempted to censor the April 30, 2004 Nightline broadcast on its
8 ABC stations. It tried to order its 62 affiliate stations to pre-empt
prime time programming to air an anti-Kerry documentation two weeks before
the election.

Sinclair's VP for Corporate Relations, Mark Hyman, brings journalism to a
new low with his "The Point" editorial segments. Hyman is to the right
what moveon.org is to the left: a ridiculous whacko who plays fast and
loose with the facts, and ultimately embarasses the political cause he
purportedly supports. By comparison, Fox News' Bill O'Reilly is a model
of decorum and professionalism.

Whatever Sinclair does (and we really can't rely upon the word of Psycho
Bob for anything) is not representative of the mainstream of TV
broadcasters. What Sinclair does is just representative of Sinclair.

However, I will make a prediction.

Sinclair will eventually be compelled to broadcast in HD. The cable and
satellite systems will not carry its multicast channels, and those
multicast channels will be a money loser. Meanwhile, Sinclair's
competitors will all be in HD, and presently nobody will both watching the
programming on Sinclair stations.

If they lose all must carry then expect a full court press for a better
codec and modulation.
They've already lost, and neither the codec nor modulation will change.
That is news to me. Maybe you had better tell broadcasters of this momentous
event. AFAIK must carry is still in full force.

The satellite systems do not carry all the analog locals. In the Seattle
area, DirecTV never carried televangelism channels 20 (KTBW - TBN) or 56
(KWDK - Daystar), and recently expelled channel 33 (KPWX - PAX/i) and 51
(KWOG - ShopNBC) on the grounds. I can come up with similar gaps in cable
lineups.

Neither satellite nor cable carry all of the digital locals, much less all
of the multicast channels. The FCC already ruled against must-carry for
multicast.

MPEG4 is being used in France with DVB-T COFDM. This is the standard going
forward.

"Standard going forward" is a weasel way of saying "not used yet."

MPEG4 is far better than MPEG2.

Better for what, in the context of broadcast television?

Broadcast television is unlikely to use VRML or objects. DRM perhaps, but
that certainly isn't "better" from the consumer's point of view.

Since when was it up to the consumer?

Periodically, every broadcaster has to renew its license; and public
participation is part of the license renewal process.

AFAIK, there is no complete implementation of MPEG4 anywhere; most of MPEG4
is optional to implement. There is a huge amount of confusion over the
necessary licenses needed for MPEG4 or which companies hold patents
covering the aspect of MPEG4 for a proposed implementation.
And everyone including broadcasters will use it.

Not when you have to get separate licenses for MPEG-2 video and audio.
Apparently, the MPEG Licensing Authority can only help with the video
patents. Then there's the matter of AT&T suing Apple for alleged MPEG-4
patent infringement.

It is just a matter of when
it will be allowed for use with the one SD channel which is all that
broadcasters have to transmit in their 6 MHz channel.

The answer to "when" is "never".

There was a reason
broadcasters made sure the law only said SD after all.

There is no particular reason why a small independent broadcaster should
be forced to buy expensive HD equipment.

However, all the network broadcasters (with the exception of Sinclair)
have done so.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

"Jim L" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Being an OTA fan for 50+ years, I am sad to say that I will be forced into
cable in 2009. I'm sure that there are thousands like me in the Pacific
Northwest that are in the same boat. We have put up 30+ foot high gain
hdtv antennas and gone to extreme lengths to get the new OTA digital
broadcasts only to find that a little wind in the trees and it is gone.
We wait for winter for the trees to shed so we can get better reception.
We switch to the NTSC channels for relief, knowing that those will be
going away in a couple of years. We are resolved to the fact that a high
percentage of folks will be forced onto cable or satelite in 2009 and we
are a part of those. Who won? The cable companies. Maybe we will put
our $60 a month into DVD's or Blue Ray..........(:}

Jim

================================
Digital OTA should be easier to receive than NTSC OTA....................

"Jim L" writes:

Being an OTA fan for 50+ years, I am sad to say that I will be forced into
cable in 2009. I'm sure that there are thousands like me in the Pacific
Northwest that are in the same boat. We have put up 30+ foot high gain hdtv
antennas and gone to extreme lengths to get the new OTA digital broadcasts
only to find that a little wind in the trees and it is gone. We wait for
winter for the trees to shed so we can get better reception. We switch to
the NTSC channels for relief, knowing that those will be going away in a
couple of years. We are resolved to the fact that a high percentage of
folks will be forced onto cable or satelite in 2009 and we are a part of
those. Who won? The cable companies. Maybe we will put our $60 a month
into DVD's or Blue Ray..........(:}

Jim,

What are you using for a receiver? I have a suspicion that different
receivers' performances vary significantly. I just upgraded from an
old DISH network R6000 to the newer 211 and discovered digital channels
I never knew I had. And the ones I did have now come in more solidly.

I believe a lack of good algorithms (equalization and whatnot) in the
receiver COULD be responsible for the problems you're experiencing.
--
% Randy Yates % "I met someone who looks alot like you,
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % she does the things you do,
%%% 919-577-9882 % but she is an IBM."
%%%% % 'Yours Truly, 2095', *Time*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr

"Wes Newell" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 18:20:50 -0500, *me* wrote:

But do you know of any digital tuners for laptops that
use the card slot instead of USB2 port?

No. But I've never searched for one either.

1 - 10 of about 1,190,000 for pcmcia tv tuner - 0.14 sec

You can search as good as me.

Huh?

On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 18:11:34 -0400, David wrote:

"Wes Newell" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 18:20:50 -0500, *me* wrote:

But do you know of any digital tuners for laptops that
use the card slot instead of USB2 port?

No. But I've never searched for one either.

1 - 10 of about 1,190,000 for pcmcia tv tuner - 0.14 sec

You can search as good as me.

Huh?

Use you web browser and go to http://www.yahoo.com
and then type in pcmcia tv tuner and hit enter. You'll see.

--
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