Recording for archiving question

A couple of questions. Some of this has been sort of indirectly
covered in the past few weeks since I've been reading the mail here,
but perhaps you all have the time to give me some advice.

I'd like to be able to record to a hard drive (not a tivo like unit
unless the tivo like unit can do what I'm asking for in the following
notes). Is there a PCI or plug in card of some sort that will allow
recording to disk at hd quality and playback of the same.

Second, I'd like to have that recorded material be able to be seen
from any of my locally networked computers.

Third, I'd like to archive it off the hard drive onto a real DVD or a
dvd that could be played in a computer's DVD player.

Is there a format that the hd is recorded in that could be processed
or converted to make it playable on a stand alone (real) dvd player?
I don't know if the native format is mpeg4, avi, or whatever, but once
it is on a dvd platter,I'd like to be able to enjoy it on another
screen in my house.

I know there will be gnashing of teeth and cry of copyright stuff, but
if you think VCR in place of hd above, ALL is currently allowed under
the law.. Just as if you take your VCR and give the tape to a friend,
that's violation, and I'll give you that for this situation too (which
isn't what I'm trying to achieve.) I'd like to save, say Fraiser, to
dvd for later enjoyement just as I do now on tape.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 05:44:07 GMT, Nonesuch
wrote:

A couple of questions. Some of this has been sort of indirectly
covered in the past few weeks since I've been reading the mail here,
but perhaps you all have the time to give me some advice.

I'd like to be able to record to a hard drive (not a tivo like unit
unless the tivo like unit can do what I'm asking for in the following
notes). Is there a PCI or plug in card of some sort that will allow
recording to disk at hd quality and playback of the same.

At least a half dozen. Some save the data encrypted to disk and you
can't do a thing with it except play it back on the computer.

I chose the DVico FusionHDTV-II PCI card for about $160.
http://www.copperbox.com/lite/popinf...neek=203805620

It will record the HDTV as a MPEG Transport Stream (unencrypted) at a
rate of about 140MB/minute, or a little over 8GB per hour.
It also has a software utility to convert that transport stream to
MPEG2, and then you can make a VCD, SVCD or DVD from it with the
proper software.
There is also some freeware/shareware stuff for editing the raw
transport stream to eliminate commercials. The Fusion software can do
it also, but it's a PITA to use.
I think that answers all your questions.


Second, I'd like to have that recorded material be able to be seen
from any of my locally networked computers.
Only after you convert it. The board is the only way to play a
transport stream, AFAIK.

Third, I'd like to archive it off the hard drive onto a real DVD or a
dvd that could be played in a computer's DVD player.

Is there a format that the hd is recorded in that could be processed
or converted to make it playable on a stand alone (real) dvd player?
I don't know if the native format is mpeg4, avi, or whatever, but once
it is on a dvd platter,I'd like to be able to enjoy it on another
screen in my house.

I know there will be gnashing of teeth and cry of copyright stuff, but
if you think VCR in place of hd above, ALL is currently allowed under
the law.. Just as if you take your VCR and give the tape to a friend,
that's violation, and I'll give you that for this situation too (which
isn't what I'm trying to achieve.) I'd like to save, say Fraiser, to
dvd for later enjoyement just as I do now on tape.

I chose the DVico FusionHDTV-II PCI card for about $160.
http://www.copperbox.com/lite/popinf...neek=203805620


I have a question for you:
I too am using the Fusion 2 card. The pic quality is incredible,
but it has a very irritating bug.....occasionally,
the program crashes when I'm fast forwarding. Specifically,
the crash happens when I hit the 'play' button to transition
from ff to normal speed. Doesn't happen everytime, in fact, I'd
estimate that 95% of the time the prog doesn't crash. But it's
extremely inconvienent when a crash happens cause you have to
relaunch the prog, and then try to figure out where you were
when the crash happened. Since 100% of my viewing is of
recorded material, I virtually never watch anything
live, I use the ff control about 20 times per hour.
So on average, I'm crashing 1-3 times every day.
I've tried 3 different cards on 3 different computers, and they all
have the exact same failure mode, and all three computers
work perfectly otherwise. I.e. there is nothing wrong
with the computers, it's either the card or the software.
All versions of software have this problem.

Comments?

Jeff B

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 18:21:22 GMT, Jeff B wrote:



I chose the DVico FusionHDTV-II PCI card for about $160.
http://www.copperbox.com/lite/popinf...neek=203805620


I have a question for you:
I too am using the Fusion 2 card. The pic quality is incredible,
but it has a very irritating bug.....occasionally,
the program crashes when I'm fast forwarding. Specifically,
the crash happens when I hit the 'play' button to transition
from ff to normal speed. Doesn't happen everytime, in fact, I'd
estimate that 95% of the time the prog doesn't crash. But it's
extremely inconvienent when a crash happens cause you have to
relaunch the prog, and then try to figure out where you were
when the crash happened. Since 100% of my viewing is of
recorded material, I virtually never watch anything
live, I use the ff control about 20 times per hour.
So on average, I'm crashing 1-3 times every day.
I've tried 3 different cards on 3 different computers, and they all
have the exact same failure mode, and all three computers
work perfectly otherwise. I.e. there is nothing wrong
with the computers, it's either the card or the software.
All versions of software have this problem.

Comments?

Jeff B

I've never had it happen, but then, I don't use the FF function
either. I'm running WinXP SP1 and V2.13b of the Fusion software.

I only bought the card so I could watch Star Trek Enterprise in HD,
but that turned out to be a disaster, as the local UPN station doesn't
know what they're doing. 6 out of the last 7 episodes have been
screwed by the station engineers/technicians/idiots.

I record some stuff, then edit it and convert it to SVCD or DVD.
Other stuff I just watch live.

To answer your question, it is probably software.
Perhaps an email to cs @ dvico.com describing the problem may get you
a response, maybe. I've not had much luck with them.

I have a different problem.
Any OTA broadcast with subchannels being used, I can't receive them.
There are 6 DTV channels here, 2 use subchannels, 4 do not.
CBS (CH10), ABC (CH15), UPN (CH28) and FOX (CH31) do not use
subchannels, I get them at 95% to 100% signal strength. NBC (CH2),
which has their transmitter in the same location as the other
stations, uses subchannel 2 and 3, and I can't get a signal, and they
transmit with TWICE the power of the ABC station (7KW-ERP vs.
3.5KW-ERP). These transmitters are all about 23 miles from me in
Cleveland (actually Parma), Ohio.
The other station is TBN (Trinity Broadcast), a religious network (who
watches that? Not I), whose antenna is only 12 miles from me on a
1025' tower (in West Akron, Ohio) that I can see from my back yard.
Can't get them either. They use subchannels 2, 3, and 4.
Channel 39 at 200KW-ERP.
I emailed DVico, but all they said was others can receive stations
broadcasting with subchannels. No help.

JM

I've never had it happen, but then, I don't use the FF function
either. I'm running WinXP SP1 and V2.13b of the Fusion software.

Me too.


I only bought the card so I could watch Star Trek Enterprise in HD,
but that turned out to be a disaster, as the local UPN station doesn't
know what they're doing. 6 out of the last 7 episodes have been
screwed by the station engineers/technicians/idiots.

Define screwed up. Do you mean the broadcast is coming out in
SD even though it's suppose to be HD? If so, that is extremely
common problem. Here (Denver), it's usually the network
feed, not the local station.


I record some stuff, then edit it and convert it to SVCD or DVD.
Other stuff I just watch live.

I tried converting to DVD to archive, but the quality was
noticeably inferior to HD so I don't do that. Besides, there is
nothing I want to archive.

To answer your question, it is probably software.
Perhaps an email to cs @ dvico.com describing the problem may get you
a response, maybe. I've not had much luck with them.

Same here. I emailed twice. First time they ignored me
completely. Second time, I got one response, they inquired as to the
details of the failure mode. I explained and never heard back.


I have a different problem.

I emailed DVico, but all they said was others can receive stations
broadcasting with subchannels. No help.

JM


Interesting. Of the six channels I pull in, two have subchannels,
I have no problem getting those channels plus their subs.
But that reminds me of another strange bug: On one of the subchannel
station (WB), sometimes there is no sound. I click on the sub
indicator to tune the sub, then back to the main channel
(e.g. 34-1 click to 34-2, then back to 34-1). the instant
I get back to 34-1, I get sound.
Sorry i can't help with your prob, except to say I pull in
stations that are broadcasting sub channels just fine.

Jeff

Sorry for the long delay in responding. I've had some serious vehicle
problems which took up most of my time during the day, and I work 3rd
shift.
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:46:20 GMT, Jeff B wrote:


I've never had it happen, but then, I don't use the FF function
either. I'm running WinXP SP1 and V2.13b of the Fusion software.

Me too.


I only bought the card so I could watch Star Trek Enterprise in HD,
but that turned out to be a disaster, as the local UPN station doesn't
know what they're doing. 6 out of the last 7 episodes have been
screwed by the station engineers/technicians/idiots.

Define screwed up. Do you mean the broadcast is coming out in
SD even though it's suppose to be HD? If so, that is extremely
common problem. Here (Denver), it's usually the network
feed, not the local station.

Screwed up, as in not switching back to HD from SD after the
commercials. Which always seem to be perfect. Loss of video, sound,
blank screens while the analog broadcast is fine.
I am fairly certain it is the local station, not the network digital
feed, as UPN and Paramount have very seldom in the 10 years I've been
capping them screwed an analog satellite feed, and when they did
(rarely) they sent a refeed. I doubt that the satellite digital feed
is at fault.

I tried again on the new episode 2 weeks ago, but the same thing
happened.
They screwed it up. They neglected to switch to local spots at the
commercial break and I saw maybe 20 seconds of a UPN Promo for the
rest of the season of Enterprise, then it snapped to the local spots.
Now the station is 20 seconds out of sync, so when they came back to
the show, it was already in progress, and of course it wasn't 16:9
until several seconds later when the monkeys realized they had to
switch resolution.
Can't screw with the advertisers, but the show can go to hell. It
seems to be secondary in importance.
I didn't even bother with last night's episode in HD, I capped it from
the analog feed to Canada on Tuesday night.
Not as good, but I can remove the black bars, clean up the video with
filters and it still looks acceptable.


I record some stuff, then edit it and convert it to SVCD or DVD.
Other stuff I just watch live.

I tried converting to DVD to archive, but the quality was
noticeably inferior to HD so I don't do that. Besides, there is
nothing I want to archive.

I've converted one Enterprise ep. (early December) that wasn't screwed
up, and it looks as good as a DVD.


To answer your question, it is probably software.
Perhaps an email to cs @ dvico.com describing the problem may get you
a response, maybe. I've not had much luck with them.

Same here. I emailed twice. First time they ignored me
completely. Second time, I got one response, they inquired as to the
details of the failure mode. I explained and never heard back.


I have a different problem.

I emailed DVico, but all they said was others can receive stations
broadcasting with subchannels. No help.

JM


Interesting. Of the six channels I pull in, two have subchannels,
I have no problem getting those channels plus their subs.
But that reminds me of another strange bug: On one of the subchannel
station (WB), sometimes there is no sound. I click on the sub
indicator to tune the sub, then back to the main channel
(e.g. 34-1 click to 34-2, then back to 34-1). the instant
I get back to 34-1, I get sound.
Sorry i can't help with your prob, except to say I pull in
stations that are broadcasting sub channels just fine.

I dl'd the latest version 2.5 Beta, and the SPDIF problem went away,
but still no stations broadcasting subchannels. Maybe I have a
defective tuner? Good luck getting it replaced, huh?
I emaild DVico again, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for
an answer.


Jeff

Jedi Master wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 05:44:07 GMT, Nonesuch
wrote:

A couple of questions. Some of this has been sort of indirectly
covered in the past few weeks since I've been reading the mail here,
but perhaps you all have the time to give me some advice.

I'd like to be able to record to a hard drive (not a tivo like unit
unless the tivo like unit can do what I'm asking for in the following
notes). Is there a PCI or plug in card of some sort that will allow
recording to disk at hd quality and playback of the same.

At least a half dozen. Some save the data encrypted to disk and you
can't do a thing with it except play it back on the computer.

I chose the DVico FusionHDTV-II PCI card for about $160.
http://www.copperbox.com/lite/popinf...neek=203805620

It will record the HDTV as a MPEG Transport Stream (unencrypted) at a
rate of about 140MB/minute, or a little over 8GB per hour.
It also has a software utility to convert that transport stream to
MPEG2, and then you can make a VCD, SVCD or DVD from it with the
proper software.
There is also some freeware/shareware stuff for editing the raw
transport stream to eliminate commercials. The Fusion software can do
it also, but it's a PITA to use.
I think that answers all your questions.


Well the DVD standard can't handle HD (1080i/720p) it only supports
480p so that software is downgrading the quality for DVD playback.

If you want to preserve the HD quality and backup to DVD the best
solution is Windows Media Encoder 9 (which supports 720p High
Definition). If the export software ( from the DVico FusionHDTV-II )
allows you to dump to decrypted MPEG-2 at 1280x720 you can use
Microsoft Windows Media Encoder 9 Series to recode and you can
perserve HD quality at about 4GB per hour.

Unfortunately current DVD burners only support single layer 4.7GB so
you won't be able to store more than an hour per DVD and you'll only
be able to playback on your PC as no stand alone DVD players support
the Windows Media 9 HD encoder (yet) Samsung is suppose to come out
with one this year. Also, dual layer DVD burners are coming in the
next few months and they will allow over 8GB to be burned to DVD blank
media.







Second, I'd like to have that recorded material be able to be seen
from any of my locally networked computers.
Only after you convert it. The board is the only way to play a
transport stream, AFAIK.

Third, I'd like to archive it off the hard drive onto a real DVD or a
dvd that could be played in a computer's DVD player.

Is there a format that the hd is recorded in that could be processed
or converted to make it playable on a stand alone (real) dvd player?
I don't know if the native format is mpeg4, avi, or whatever, but once
it is on a dvd platter,I'd like to be able to enjoy it on another
screen in my house.

I know there will be gnashing of teeth and cry of copyright stuff, but
if you think VCR in place of hd above, ALL is currently allowed under
the law.. Just as if you take your VCR and give the tape to a friend,
that's violation, and I'll give you that for this situation too (which
isn't what I'm trying to achieve.) I'd like to save, say Fraiser, to
dvd for later enjoyement just as I do now on tape.

On 6 Feb 2004 08:37:02 -0800, (JDeats) wrote:

Jedi Master wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 05:44:07 GMT, Nonesuch
wrote:

A couple of questions. Some of this has been sort of indirectly
covered in the past few weeks since I've been reading the mail here,
but perhaps you all have the time to give me some advice.

I'd like to be able to record to a hard drive (not a tivo like unit
unless the tivo like unit can do what I'm asking for in the following
notes). Is there a PCI or plug in card of some sort that will allow
recording to disk at hd quality and playback of the same.

At least a half dozen. Some save the data encrypted to disk and you
can't do a thing with it except play it back on the computer.

I chose the DVico FusionHDTV-II PCI card for about $160.
http://www.copperbox.com/lite/popinf...neek=203805620

It will record the HDTV as a MPEG Transport Stream (unencrypted) at a
rate of about 140MB/minute, or a little over 8GB per hour.
It also has a software utility to convert that transport stream to
MPEG2, and then you can make a VCD, SVCD or DVD from it with the
proper software.
There is also some freeware/shareware stuff for editing the raw
transport stream to eliminate commercials. The Fusion software can do
it also, but it's a PITA to use.
I think that answers all your questions.


Well the DVD standard can't handle HD (1080i/720p) it only supports
480p so that software is downgrading the quality for DVD playback.

This is true, But, the better the quality you start with, the better
it will look when downsized. When you start with excellent quality,
you won't see much difference at DVD resolution, even SVCD resolution.
It does look flaky reduced to VCD.

I deinterlace the 1080i and bicubic resize to 720X480, then use Adobe
Encore to transcode as 16X9 Anamorphic at 7Mb/sec average.
Burn it to DVD and play it on a 31" TV it still looks great.


If you want to preserve the HD quality and backup to DVD the best
solution is Windows Media Encoder 9 (which supports 720p High
Definition). If the export software ( from the DVico FusionHDTV-II )
allows you to dump to decrypted MPEG-2 at 1280x720 you can use
Microsoft Windows Media Encoder 9 Series to recode and you can
perserve HD quality at about 4GB per hour.

Fusion does not encrypt the data stream when recording.
The new conversion utility will only output 720X480 in MPEG2 or DVD
setting, but will output 1280X720 in DivX (4, I think), 960X540 and
720X480.
Aspects are 1:1, 4:3, 16:9 and 2.21:1 in MPEG2 and DVD, 4:3 fixed in
DivX.
The only bad thing is that the conversion is SLOW...........
It converts at .2X speed on my system, or 5 minutes to convert 1
minute of data. P4-2.80GHz.
It's faster to use the hacked DVD2AVI2 which can read the transport
stream, convert it to AVI, and then run it through DVD2SVCD in AVI2DVD
mode. With CCE2.50 doing the conversion, it runs around 1.5 to 2.0X,
depending on content. So a 3- pass conversion takes about 90 minutes
to 2 hours for Enterprise edited to 45 minutes.


Unfortunately current DVD burners only support single layer 4.7GB so
you won't be able to store more than an hour per DVD and you'll only
be able to playback on your PC as no stand alone DVD players support
the Windows Media 9 HD encoder (yet) Samsung is suppose to come out
with one this year. Also, dual layer DVD burners are coming in the
next few months and they will allow over 8GB to be burned to DVD blank
media.

And the burner I have was used by Pioneer to demonstrate dual-layer
burning with only a firmware change. DVR-106D, well, they used the
A06, practically the same.
Hopefully the upgrade will be made available.







Second, I'd like to have that recorded material be able to be seen
from any of my locally networked computers.
Only after you convert it. The board is the only way to play a
transport stream, AFAIK.

Third, I'd like to archive it off the hard drive onto a real DVD or a
dvd that could be played in a computer's DVD player.

Is there a format that the hd is recorded in that could be processed
or converted to make it playable on a stand alone (real) dvd player?
I don't know if the native format is mpeg4, avi, or whatever, but once
it is on a dvd platter,I'd like to be able to enjoy it on another
screen in my house.

I know there will be gnashing of teeth and cry of copyright stuff, but
if you think VCR in place of hd above, ALL is currently allowed under
the law.. Just as if you take your VCR and give the tape to a friend,
that's violation, and I'll give you that for this situation too (which
isn't what I'm trying to achieve.) I'd like to save, say Fraiser, to
dvd for later enjoyement just as I do now on tape.