Newbie question 2: Skinny wire in walls = no bass

You guys have all been a great help. Here's my new problem (I get a new one
each day)! The home developer prewired the walls with ultra skinny wire. I
am using it for my zone 2 speakers. I just hooked up Cambridge Soundworks
6.5 inch in-walls and they sound incredibly thin, sort of like a clock
radio. No bass at all. I am not looking for killer sound in the living
room - just background music. But this is nearly unacceptable for anything
but low level jazz when people come over. So - what are my options? I
cannot rewire, and I cannot get electricity to the speakers. Am I just
stuck with this?

On Sat, 1 Jul 2006 20:41:57 -0700, "gng"
wrote:

You guys have all been a great help. Here's my new problem (I get a new one
each day)! The home developer prewired the walls with ultra skinny wire. I
am using it for my zone 2 speakers. I just hooked up Cambridge Soundworks
6.5 inch in-walls and they sound incredibly thin, sort of like a clock
radio. No bass at all. I am not looking for killer sound in the living
room - just background music. But this is nearly unacceptable for anything
but low level jazz when people come over. So - what are my options? I
cannot rewire, and I cannot get electricity to the speakers. Am I just
stuck with this?



Out-of-phase speakers will lose bass, so check your speakers'
polarity.

They're in phase. I wonder if the problem is that they are mounted on an
wall that's faces outside with lots of insulation behind it.


"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 1 Jul 2006 20:41:57 -0700, "gng"
wrote:

You guys have all been a great help. Here's my new problem (I get a new
one
each day)! The home developer prewired the walls with ultra skinny wire.
I
am using it for my zone 2 speakers. I just hooked up Cambridge
Soundworks
6.5 inch in-walls and they sound incredibly thin, sort of like a clock
radio. No bass at all. I am not looking for killer sound in the living
room - just background music. But this is nearly unacceptable for
anything
but low level jazz when people come over. So - what are my options? I
cannot rewire, and I cannot get electricity to the speakers. Am I just
stuck with this?



Out-of-phase speakers will lose bass, so check your speakers'
polarity.

gng wrote:
They're in phase. I wonder if the problem is that they are mounted on an
wall that's faces outside with lots of insulation behind it.



from my understanding insulation could only be a good thing as sound
goes

if your looking for a way to wire in low wattage speakers which these
must be with "ultra thing wire" copper tape mite be worth looking into,
its litteraly a reel of tape but made of copper, doesnt make any
difference to the sound from wot i remember of testing it
i have some which i plan to run across my room under my carpet

you could put that round near the top or bottom of the wall and paint
over it, or even put it under the carpet around the edge of the room,
it would be like re-wiring without actualy re-wiring!!

[quote=gng] The home developer prewired the walls with ultra skinny wire. I
am using it for my zone 2 speakers. I just hooked up Cambridge Soundworks
6.5 inch in-walls and they sound incredibly thin, sort of like a clock
radio. No bass at all.[quote]

My, but you do wander about with these threads--what receiver did you ultimately end up buying? My guess is you don't have your Zone 2 speakers set properly OR they are not true Zone 2 outputs. F'rinstance, on the Onkyo 504 you have to go into the setup menu and set the B speaker output for something like 'remote' or 'multi-room' (I don't have the manual in front of me) to deliver full-range output to the B speakers. Also, for any and all zone 2-type receivers make sure you have an analog audio connection in addition to any digital connection from your source component, otherwise NO sound will be heard in the second zone. In the case of the Onkyo 603 you have to select 'powered Zone 2 on' in the setup menu so the surround back amplifiers are switched to Zone 2 amplifier duty. Note that in both scenarios above you can ONLY have a 5.1 surround system in the main room as the rear surround channels are re-dedicated to serve the second zone.

QUICK TEST: Put your receiver in 'stereo' or 'all channel stereo' and then listen to your remote pair of speakers. I'll bet a dollar you'll suddenly find full-range sound coming from them. I have encountered this many times with clients who hooked up their 'B' speaker pair (BIG problem with Sony and Yamaha) thinking it would deliver full-range sound. All it does is give you another pair of left/right speakers, and if you're in any surround mode other than 'all stereo' you simply get just the left/right portion of your surround sound information sent to those speakers. This also serves as a vivid demonstration of just how much information your center channel handles. Keep us posted.

[quote=gng] The home developer prewired the walls with ultra skinny wire. I
am using it for my zone 2 speakers. I just hooked up Cambridge Soundworks
6.5 inch in-walls and they sound incredibly thin, sort of like a clock
radio. No bass at all.[quote]

Oh, and about that skinny wire business:

MEMO TO ALL ALARM COMPANIES: I promise to never attempt to install an alarm system if you will just promise to stop pretending you can install custom audio. Thank you.

Howard Lund
Howard Home Theater

I bought the Onkyo 603, but it's not here yet (Amazon.com). I am not sure
it's not the speaker wire as I hooked up the speakers to my old Sony on the
main speakers, all surround off, and they still sounded thin. I even turned
the bass all the way up and it made virtually no difference. I have a few
possible options - I am really hoping I can pull new wire through the walls,
which I can do if they did not tack down the wires. It's a long shot, but
that's my next step. Then Cambridge says to build a box behind the
speakers. If that doesn't work, I might need to hire someone to fish the
wires - I would imagine that would be pretty darn expensive.

I'll try your All Stereo idea and see if this works. I'm hoping it does!
"howardhometheater" wrote in
message ...

gng Wrote:
The home developer prewired the walls with ultra skinny wire. I
am using it for my zone 2 speakers. I just hooked up Cambridge
Soundworks
6.5 inch in-walls and they sound incredibly thin, sort of like a clock
radio. No bass at all.

My, but you do wander about with these threads--what receiver did you
ultimately end up buying? My guess is you don't have your Zone 2
speakers set properly OR they are not true Zone 2 outputs.
F'rinstance, on the Onkyo 504 you have to go into the setup menu and
set the B speaker output for something like 'remote' or 'multi-room'
(I
don't have the manual in front of me) to deliver full-range output to
the B speakers. Also, for any and all zone 2-type receivers make sure
you have an analog audio connection in addition to any digital
connection from your source component, otherwise NO sound will be
heard
in the second zone. In the case of the Onkyo 603 you have to select
'powered Zone 2 on' in the setup menu so the surround back amplifiers
are switched to Zone 2 amplifier duty. Note that in both scenarios
above you can ONLY have a 5.1 surround system in the main room as the
rear surround channels are re-dedicated to serve the second zone.

QUICK TEST: Put your receiver in 'stereo' or 'all channel stereo' and
then listen to your remote pair of speakers. I'll bet a dollar you'll
suddenly find full-range sound coming from them. I have encountered
this many times with clients who hooked up their 'B' speaker pair (BIG
problem with Sony and Yamaha) thinking it would deliver full-range
sound. All it does is give you another pair of left/right speakers,
and if you're in any surround mode other than 'all stereo' you simply
get just the left/right portion of your surround sound information
sent
to those speakers. This also serves as a vivid demonstration of just
how much information your center channel handles. Keep us posted.




--
howardhometheater

Wow, now I will admitedly wander a bit! I was checking the wiring for the
"B" speakers and disconnected one side of the speaker wire and it touched
the back of the receiver - and it played sound. So the entire back of the
receiver is a "live conductor". OK, I will stop bugging everyone until I
get the 603 hooked up. Perhaps my biggest problem is this Onkyo is
defective.

"gng" wrote in message
...
I bought the Onkyo 603, but it's not here yet (Amazon.com). I am not sure
it's not the speaker wire as I hooked up the speakers to my old Sony on
the
main speakers, all surround off, and they still sounded thin. I even
turned
the bass all the way up and it made virtually no difference. I have a few
possible options - I am really hoping I can pull new wire through the
walls,
which I can do if they did not tack down the wires. It's a long shot, but
that's my next step. Then Cambridge says to build a box behind the
speakers. If that doesn't work, I might need to hire someone to fish the
wires - I would imagine that would be pretty darn expensive.

I'll try your All Stereo idea and see if this works. I'm hoping it does!
"howardhometheater" wrote
in
message ...

gng Wrote:
The home developer prewired the walls with ultra skinny wire. I
am using it for my zone 2 speakers. I just hooked up Cambridge
Soundworks
6.5 inch in-walls and they sound incredibly thin, sort of like a clock
radio. No bass at all.

My, but you do wander about with these threads--what receiver did
you
ultimately end up buying? My guess is you don't have your Zone 2
speakers set properly OR they are not true Zone 2 outputs.
F'rinstance, on the Onkyo 504 you have to go into the setup menu and
set the B speaker output for something like 'remote' or 'multi-room'
(I
don't have the manual in front of me) to deliver full-range output
to
the B speakers. Also, for any and all zone 2-type receivers make
sure
you have an analog audio connection in addition to any digital
connection from your source component, otherwise NO sound will be
heard
in the second zone. In the case of the Onkyo 603 you have to select
'powered Zone 2 on' in the setup menu so the surround back
amplifiers
are switched to Zone 2 amplifier duty. Note that in both scenarios
above you can ONLY have a 5.1 surround system in the main room as
the
rear surround channels are re-dedicated to serve the second zone.

QUICK TEST: Put your receiver in 'stereo' or 'all channel stereo'
and
then listen to your remote pair of speakers. I'll bet a dollar
you'll
suddenly find full-range sound coming from them. I have encountered
this many times with clients who hooked up their 'B' speaker pair
(BIG
problem with Sony and Yamaha) thinking it would deliver full-range
sound. All it does is give you another pair of left/right speakers,
and if you're in any surround mode other than 'all stereo' you
simply
get just the left/right portion of your surround sound information
sent
to those speakers. This also serves as a vivid demonstration of
just
how much information your center channel handles. Keep us posted.




--
howardhometheater

gng wrote:
You guys have all been a great help. Here's my new problem (I get a new one
each day)! The home developer prewired the walls with ultra skinny wire. I
am using it for my zone 2 speakers. I just hooked up Cambridge Soundworks
6.5 inch in-walls and they sound incredibly thin, sort of like a clock
radio. No bass at all.

Which speakers?

I doubt whether this has anything to do with the wire. Did you try to
hook them up temporarily with bigger wire?

Andrew.

I think it's the receiver. I just got it and just sent it back. I hooked
up my old Sony and it sounded way better, so hoping when the new Onkyo
arrives it will be perfect. Thanks for your help.
"Andrew Haley" wrote in message
...
gng wrote:
You guys have all been a great help. Here's my new problem (I get a new
one
each day)! The home developer prewired the walls with ultra skinny
wire. I
am using it for my zone 2 speakers. I just hooked up Cambridge
Soundworks
6.5 inch in-walls and they sound incredibly thin, sort of like a clock
radio. No bass at all.

Which speakers?

I doubt whether this has anything to do with the wire. Did you try to
hook them up temporarily with bigger wire?

Andrew.