TOT Rant: Police, Camera, Inaction

We've been having a lot of problems here from youths riding motorbikes
through open spaces and a nature reserve. We even have a name for the most
persistent offender, and video from my security camera.

In the early days I called 999, but after a while I started to get: "This
is not a matter of life or limb! You must call your local police station!".
So the last two times I called the local station. My most recent
conversation was like something out of Never Never Land ...

"Is the offender still there?".

"No, by the time it took you to answer the phone, naturally now he's gone!"

"Then I'm sorry, sir, but we can't do anything, we need to catch the
offender in the act!"

"But if I can't report this to an emergency number, you're never going to be
able to respond quickly enough to catch him in the act!"

"Then I'm sorry, sir, but we can't do anything, we need to catch the
offender in the act so's we can give him a ticket!"

"A ticket? But he probably hasn't even got a licence to endorse! We have a
name and video!"

"I'm sorry, sir, but unless your CCTV is registered with the council, we
shan't use it!"

So they seem to be saying that they know a crime is regularly being
committed, but it's transient and less serious nature (less serious until he
runs over a child or a dog) means that they'll just ignore it!

Perhaps such crime is not glamorous enough for them, or doesn't fall into
their target statistics.

The following is an excerpt from a letter of complaint to my local council
group, covering amongst other things this very point. It was just before
the elections, and one of them didn't get re-elected, but I'm still amazed
that I haven't had *even* an acknowledgement!

"""
On at least three occasions, I've warned youths on motorcycles that they are
breaking the law and that I would call the police on future occasions, but
they persist.

I'm also very concerned about the inconsistency of what happens when I do
phone the police, particularly if you consider that with this sort of
problem speed of response is essential. I quite accept that speed of
response will vary with whatever other more pressing demands are being made
on the police at the time, but not for other reasons such as I am about to
relate.

A while back, when youths were throwing stones, and a neighbour had been
kept hanging on a local number trying to report it, I expressed surprise
that she hadn't used an emergency number, and later asked an officer for
clarification on this. His reply was clear, unambiguous, and made sense:
"If a crime is actually being committed and/or the perpetrators are still at
the scene, then use an emergency number, otherwise use a local number."

However, on two occasions, including the most recent, when reporting youths
on motorcycles in the reserve, I've either been put through to a message
loop suggesting this was not subject for an emergency call, or been told
verbally to call a local number. On yet other occasions, the response has
been helpful, and twice there has even been a car there within 5-10 minutes.

Despite the explanation of the officer who verbally warned me off, that the
emergency number was for when life and/or limb are in danger (that was the
gist of the phrase she used, but I can't now remember exactly how she
expressed it), the actual response shows no such clear policy (and if it
did, would contradict the advice previously given). Actually, response
seems to be determined mainly by the attitude of whoever happens to take the
call.

Additionally, and call me an old cynic if you like, I can't help noticing
that a likely result of removing all emergency calls not involving danger to
life or limb will be a miraculous reduction in the number of emergency calls
and an equally miraculous improvement in the response rate to those that
remain, thus improving police statistics, but nothing else.

On the contrary, problems such ours will probably get worse, because the
response rate is likely to be slower, even when the police haven't got
anything more urgent. For one thing, the call system has menu that must be
negotiated, and then calls are answered in turn, so you have no idea how
long you will be kept waiting and whether the youths will have gone by the
time you've managed to report them. For another, will the response to the
call be as urgent?

I note further that the TVPA's leaflet distributed with our council tax
literature claims that: "There have been significant improvements to the
way in which we deal with incoming calls thanks to the employment of 49
extra Police Enquiry Staff, plus investment in new technology and training
of staff to ensure that every call is handled as effectively as possible."
Whoosh! Was that a pig just flew by?! How is putting someone trying to
report a crime into a message loop and/or telling them to redial another
number with a menu system effective?

I was always under the impression that the emergency number was for people
to report a crime quickly, it being up to the police to prioritise their
response thereafter. Can you clarify with the TVPA whether they have issued
any contrary guidelines to their emergency call centre staff, if so what
these were, and why the wider public have not been informed of them?
"""

I dunno why you're so surprised. This is the way of things now. Do you
really expect the police to do anything nowadays, other than nick people
for speeding? Sh*t system, sh*t country. If I could get out, I would ....


Clem

Java Jive wrote:
We've been having a lot of problems here from youths riding motorbikes
through open spaces and a nature reserve. We even have a name for the most
persistent offender, and video from my security camera.

In the early days I called 999, but after a while I started to get: "This
is not a matter of life or limb! You must call your local police station!".
So the last two times I called the local station. My most recent
conversation was like something out of Never Never Land ...

"Is the offender still there?".

"No, by the time it took you to answer the phone, naturally now he's gone!"

"Then I'm sorry, sir, but we can't do anything, we need to catch the
offender in the act!"

"But if I can't report this to an emergency number, you're never going to be
able to respond quickly enough to catch him in the act!"

"Then I'm sorry, sir, but we can't do anything, we need to catch the
offender in the act so's we can give him a ticket!"

"A ticket? But he probably hasn't even got a licence to endorse! We have a
name and video!"

"I'm sorry, sir, but unless your CCTV is registered with the council, we
shan't use it!"

So they seem to be saying that they know a crime is regularly being
committed, but it's transient and less serious nature (less serious until he
runs over a child or a dog) means that they'll just ignore it!

Perhaps such crime is not glamorous enough for them, or doesn't fall into
their target statistics.

The following is an excerpt from a letter of complaint to my local council
group, covering amongst other things this very point. It was just before
the elections, and one of them didn't get re-elected, but I'm still amazed
that I haven't had *even* an acknowledgement!

"""
On at least three occasions, I've warned youths on motorcycles that they are
breaking the law and that I would call the police on future occasions, but
they persist.

I'm also very concerned about the inconsistency of what happens when I do
phone the police, particularly if you consider that with this sort of
problem speed of response is essential. I quite accept that speed of
response will vary with whatever other more pressing demands are being made
on the police at the time, but not for other reasons such as I am about to
relate.

A while back, when youths were throwing stones, and a neighbour had been
kept hanging on a local number trying to report it, I expressed surprise
that she hadn't used an emergency number, and later asked an officer for
clarification on this. His reply was clear, unambiguous, and made sense:
"If a crime is actually being committed and/or the perpetrators are still at
the scene, then use an emergency number, otherwise use a local number."

However, on two occasions, including the most recent, when reporting youths
on motorcycles in the reserve, I've either been put through to a message
loop suggesting this was not subject for an emergency call, or been told
verbally to call a local number. On yet other occasions, the response has
been helpful, and twice there has even been a car there within 5-10 minutes.

Despite the explanation of the officer who verbally warned me off, that the
emergency number was for when life and/or limb are in danger (that was the
gist of the phrase she used, but I can't now remember exactly how she
expressed it), the actual response shows no such clear policy (and if it
did, would contradict the advice previously given). Actually, response
seems to be determined mainly by the attitude of whoever happens to take the
call.

Additionally, and call me an old cynic if you like, I can't help noticing
that a likely result of removing all emergency calls not involving danger to
life or limb will be a miraculous reduction in the number of emergency calls
and an equally miraculous improvement in the response rate to those that
remain, thus improving police statistics, but nothing else.

On the contrary, problems such ours will probably get worse, because the
response rate is likely to be slower, even when the police haven't got
anything more urgent. For one thing, the call system has menu that must be
negotiated, and then calls are answered in turn, so you have no idea how
long you will be kept waiting and whether the youths will have gone by the
time you've managed to report them. For another, will the response to the
call be as urgent?

I note further that the TVPA's leaflet distributed with our council tax
literature claims that: "There have been significant improvements to the
way in which we deal with incoming calls thanks to the employment of 49
extra Police Enquiry Staff, plus investment in new technology and training
of staff to ensure that every call is handled as effectively as possible."
Whoosh! Was that a pig just flew by?! How is putting someone trying to
report a crime into a message loop and/or telling them to redial another
number with a menu system effective?

I was always under the impression that the emergency number was for people
to report a crime quickly, it being up to the police to prioritise their
response thereafter. Can you clarify with the TVPA whether they have issued
any contrary guidelines to their emergency call centre staff, if so what
these were, and why the wider public have not been informed of them?
"""

"Java Jive" wrote in message
...
We've been having a lot of problems here from youths riding motorbikes
through open spaces and a nature reserve. We even have a name for the
most
persistent offender, and video from my security camera.

God knows why you are telling us in this group. No one is that interested.
In order to complain you must contact the police, not this newsgroup. If
you want someone to complain on your behalf give us your name, address,
phone number and all the log numbers of your calls made. Remember, complain
to the people you have the problem with or they will not know you have a
complaint. We only have your side of the story so far.

"Mal" wrote in message
...

God knows why you are telling us in this group.

It was marked TOT, and is by no means the only such OT post made here
recently. In fact I posted it here because a similar themed one was posted
a few months back.

No one is that interested.

Someone was a while back ...

In order to complain you must contact the police

If you weren't complaining yourself about my post, I'd be quite happy that
you you didn't bother to read it far enough to see that I have already
complained, but given that you are complaining about it, it would been
better to bother to read it to the bitter end ...

If
you want someone to complain on your behalf

Don't be daft. I'm merely wondering what others have tried given similar
situations, or can helpfully suggest.

Java Jive wrote:
We've been having a lot of problems here from youths riding motorbikes
through open spaces and a nature reserve. We even have a name for the most
persistent offender, and video from my security camera.
snip
"A ticket? But he probably hasn't even got a licence to endorse! We have a
name and video!"

"I'm sorry, sir, but unless your CCTV is registered with the council, we
shan't use it!"

Have you investigated this?

"Clem Dye" wrote in message
...
I dunno why you're so surprised. This is the way of things now. Do you
really expect the police to do anything nowadays, other than nick people
for speeding? Sh*t system, sh*t country. If I could get out, I would ....


Clem

Java Jive wrote:
big snip


Unless the home office put a tick box on the police performance
questionnaire for catching scrotes on bikes then nothing will happen.

All policing is based on two things , 1. raising cash 2. ticking
boxes........

Mal wrote:
"Java Jive" wrote in message
...
We've been having a lot of problems here from youths riding
motorbikes through open spaces and a nature reserve. We even have a
name for the most
persistent offender, and video from my security camera.

God knows why you are telling us in this group. No one is that
interested. In order to complain you must contact the police, not
this newsgroup. If you want someone to complain on your behalf give
us your name, address, phone number and all the log numbers of your
calls made. Remember, complain to the people you have the problem
with or they will not know you have a complaint. We only have your
side of the story so far.

This appears to be your first post to this group, the original was marked
TOT, if you're not interested why did you open it.
--
Adrian

"Adrian A" wrote in message
...
Mal wrote:
"Java Jive" wrote in message
...
We've been having a lot of problems here from youths riding
motorbikes through open spaces and a nature reserve. We even have a
name for the most
persistent offender, and video from my security camera.

God knows why you are telling us in this group. No one is that
interested. In order to complain you must contact the police, not
this newsgroup. If you want someone to complain on your behalf give
us your name, address, phone number and all the log numbers of your
calls made. Remember, complain to the people you have the problem
with or they will not know you have a complaint. We only have your
side of the story so far.

This appears to be your first post to this group, the original was marked
TOT, if you're not interested why did you open it.
--
Adrian


So that it would be possible for society to recruit traffic wardens and
various kinds of official prodnose, God in His infinite Wisdom included in
the human race a few people of a certain mentality. This gentlemen is one of
that group.

Bill

Adrian A wrote:
Mal wrote:
God knows why you are telling us in this group. No one is that
interested. In order to complain you must contact the police, not
this newsgroup.

This appears to be your first post to this group,

It's not :-(

It's another dreary trollin' persona of 'ken r', 'john', 'rob' etc...

--
Adrian C

Java Jive wrote:
We've been having a lot of problems here from youths riding motorbikes
through open spaces and a nature reserve. We even have a name for the most
persistent offender, and video from my security camera.
snip



Might be worth checking with your Local Council?

Here in Solihull they run a joint venture with the police, and have
confiscated and destroyed several hundreds of pounds worth of bikes so
far! Several prosecutions too.