Is 1080p visibly superior to 1080i with the human eye?

Has anyone actually seen a 1080p TV at work? Is the picture really that
much better detectable by the human eye? Do the current HD Channels (eg.
CBS,NBC,ESPN,Discovery,KCET) broadcast in 1080p?

"Paul L" wrote in message
...
Has anyone actually seen a 1080p TV at work? Is the picture really that
much better detectable by the human eye? Do the current HD Channels (eg.
CBS,NBC,ESPN,Discovery,KCET) broadcast in 1080p?

Hmm... I thought the standards options were (Ignoring SDTV), 480p, 720p and
1080i. The only reference to 1080p that I've seen is electronically
converting 1080i to 1080p after the 1080i is received. This implies there
is no 1080p broadcast.

But then, I'm no expert : )

"DonC" wrote in message
news

"Paul L" wrote in message
...
Has anyone actually seen a 1080p TV at work? Is the picture really that
much better detectable by the human eye? Do the current HD Channels (eg.
CBS,NBC,ESPN,Discovery,KCET) broadcast in 1080p?

Hmm... I thought the standards options were (Ignoring SDTV), 480p, 720p
and 1080i. The only reference to 1080p that I've seen is electronically
converting 1080i to 1080p after the 1080i is received. This implies there
is no 1080p broadcast.

But then, I'm no expert : )
1080p24 is a broadcast standard. It has never been utilized that I know of.
Material sourced from 1080p 60 rather than 1080i 60 should be capable of
providing a better display on a properly designed 1080p60 display.

Richard.

DonC wrote:

"Paul L" wrote in message
...
Has anyone actually seen a 1080p TV at work? Is the picture really that
much better detectable by the human eye? Do the current HD Channels (eg.
CBS,NBC,ESPN,Discovery,KCET) broadcast in 1080p?

Hmm... I thought the standards options were (Ignoring SDTV), 480p, 720p and
1080i. The only reference to 1080p that I've seen is electronically
converting 1080i to 1080p after the 1080i is received. This implies there
is no 1080p broadcast.

But then, I'm no expert : )


Yes, for the time being only 1080p internal upconversion is
functional.

However, HD-DVDs are on the way and 1080p might be part of that
system.

On 1080p HDTV sets, Two features are necessary..
1) HDCP Copy Protection firmware
2) An external HDMI port that supports 1080p inputs
Item #2 is a hard feature to find these days...
The HP 65" DLP may support external 1080p inputs

HDTV 1080p looks like a longer way off, OR until MPEG4 codec is
'blessed'.

"Paul L" wrote in message
...
Has anyone actually seen a 1080p TV at work? Is the picture really that
much better detectable by the human eye? Do the current HD Channels (eg.
CBS,NBC,ESPN,Discovery,KCET) broadcast in 1080p?

Depends on your eye, how far away you're sitting, what the input is, etc. I
have no doubt that it CAN be visibly better, though. The perceived effective
vertical resolution of an interlaced signal can vary from 50 to nearly 100%
of its total number of lines depending on motion, generally averaging (when
there is some motion) around 60-70% compared to progressive scan at the same
resolution (and closer to 100% when the image is still, or from a slower,
progressive-scan source such as film).

To clear this up: at this time there is no HD broadcast in any 1080p format.
While 1080p24 is allowed, it's not used anywhere that I know of. (And there
is no 1080p60.) I don't know what format HD-DVD and Blu-Ray discs will
generally have, perhaps that will be 1080p24. On the other hand, even 1080i
can effectively give progressive-scan at nearly full resolution when showing
a movie which was originally shot as 24p (much as a DVD can give 480p, even
though encoded as 480i). (There are some refreshes where half the screen is
showing the transition to the next frame, but in between it is essentially
progressive scan, and if the filtering isn't too aggressive, it can come
close to a true progressive scan signal in resolution.) In addition,
de-interlacing a native 1080i signal (such as a TV show originally
videotaped at 1080i) may possibly improve its appearance slightly compared
to watching it in straight 1080i.

In theory it might be a good idea to get a 1080p display for future
compatibility: you never know when a 1080p60 format might be added, or maybe
you will be able to display it from your computer or video game console. But
not all 1080p HDTVs are capable of accepting such an input.

However, the best reason to get a 1080p display is mainly that you get the
best of both worlds. You can watch 1080i without any scaling or
downsampling, and you can watch 720p in full progressive scan. With a 1080i
TV, a 720p signal may essentially approximate 720i. And with a 720p TV, a
1080i signal also may approximate 720i. A 1080p TV can display both formats
at their highest possible quality.

"Dennis Mayer" wrote in message
...


DonC wrote:

"Paul L" wrote in message
...
Has anyone actually seen a 1080p TV at work? Is the picture really that
much better detectable by the human eye? Do the current HD Channels
(eg.
CBS,NBC,ESPN,Discovery,KCET) broadcast in 1080p?

Hmm... I thought the standards options were (Ignoring SDTV), 480p, 720p
and
1080i. The only reference to 1080p that I've seen is electronically
converting 1080i to 1080p after the 1080i is received. This implies
there
is no 1080p broadcast.

But then, I'm no expert : )


Yes, for the time being only 1080p internal upconversion is
functional.

That might not be exactly the case right now. Windows Media (WMV) is
currently available on a very limited basis, and you can download 1080p
clips from the Microsoft web site. There is a debate at avsforum as to
whether any current TV has the capability of playing such files. I am
looking into the possibility of purchasing either the Mits WD-73827 and
Toshiba 72MX195, both of which support 1080p, but their ability to play
files from a computer is not been positively established.

"Paul L" wrote in message
...
Has anyone actually seen a 1080p TV at work? Is the picture really that
much better detectable by the human eye? Do the current HD Channels (eg.
CBS,NBC,ESPN,Discovery,KCET) broadcast in 1080p?

I have seen 1080P 60 in the lab.
On static scenes, it looks identical to 1080i.

On dynamic scenes where the camera is moving, like sports, it looks crisper.

There are NO HD channels in 1080P 60 - not enough bandwidth.

"Paul L" wrote in message
...
Has anyone actually seen a 1080p TV at work? Is the picture really that
much better detectable by the human eye? Do the current HD Channels (eg.
CBS,NBC,ESPN,Discovery,KCET) broadcast in 1080p?

Don't personally have one, but I can imagine it would definitely be much
better if you plan to hook it up with a computer. "Normal" (non-1080P) HDTV
set as computer monitor looks like crap, even the smaller sets like 27',
32', etc. I'm planning to hold off buying current HDTV set in order to get a
cheaper 1080P set, and hook it up with a computer to replace all those
boxes, players, discs and tapes. Of course if you are only interested in
(HD)TV programs, I doubt it will make much differences.

ZR.

If you have a 1080p widescreen LCD monitor, like a Dell 2405 or Samsung
240t, you can download some short [what I believe to be] 1080p clips from
Dvico/fusionhd. They're breathtaking.

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 13:20:38 -0500 DonC wrote:

| "Paul L" wrote in message
| ...
| Has anyone actually seen a 1080p TV at work? Is the picture really that
| much better detectable by the human eye? Do the current HD Channels (eg.
| CBS,NBC,ESPN,Discovery,KCET) broadcast in 1080p?
|
| Hmm... I thought the standards options were (Ignoring SDTV), 480p, 720p and
| 1080i. The only reference to 1080p that I've seen is electronically
| converting 1080i to 1080p after the 1080i is received. This implies there
| is no 1080p broadcast.

I believe the following are what ATSC recognizes for OTA broadcast. You may
need to enable a fixed size font, such as Courier, to view this table layout
correctly:

================================================== =
pixel width --------- 1920 1280 704 704 640
lines height -------- 1080 720 480 480 480
aspect ratio -------- 16:9 16:9 16:9 4:3 4:3
pixel shape ratio --- 1:1 1:1 40:33 10:11 1:1

frame field line | | | | |
rate rate scheme | | | | |
------ ------ ------
23.976 23.976 progr YES YES YES YES YES
24.000 24.000 progr YES YES YES YES YES
29.970 29.970 progr YES YES YES YES YES
30.000 30.000 progr YES YES YES YES YES
59.940 59.940 progr no YES YES YES YES
60.000 60.000 progr no YES YES YES YES
29.970 59.940 inter YES no YES YES YES
30.000 60.000 inter YES no YES YES YES
================================================== =

Cable has about twice the bandwidth in each 6 MHz channel, using 256-QAM
(or 16-VSB, if anyone uses that), so the potential to use 1080p59.94 does
exist in that case. Satellite providers may also be able to do this.

Upconverting 1080p29.97 to 1080p59.94, vs. upconverting 1080i29.97/59.94
to 1080p59.94, might be what you'd be dealing with. But I don't know if
anyone is able to even get source material in 1080p29.97 (or 1080p30 or
even 1080p24 and 1080p23.976). Pro broadcast cameras I have seen on the
market are either 1080i29.97/59.94 or 720p59.94.

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