tale of 2 football games

I'm flipping between two football games that are both being sent
as HD by Comcast (Warrenville, IL - near Chicago.) The difference
betwee them is like night and day.

On CBS-D the screen looks clean and sharp. The detail is amazing.
For the most part, I'm not seeing any artifacts. OK, there was just a
shot from a camera that was at field level that looked blurred and had
things 'crawling' on the screen. I'm not sure about color though. The
field looks so bright. Perhaps that is its real color. Skin tones
look normal but a lot of other colors look hyper-saturated.

Switch to FOX-D and the difference is like night and day. The
picture looks blurry and edges look as if too much sharpening has
been applied. highlights are blown out and bleeding into adjacent
colors and there is very notable aliasing on near horizontal lines
(at 1080i !!!) Compared to CBS, FOX looks like absolute crap. OK,
there's an occasional shot on CBS that looks as bad as FOX, but all
of the FOX shots look that bad.

Is this a result of the cameras that they are using? It would seem
so since some of CBS' cameras also provide poor results. Or is
something downstream messing up the picture? In the case of FOX,
except for the 16:9 aspect ratio, it looks no better than regular TV.

I'm a newbie to HD, so feel free to point out things that would
otherwise be well known to folks who have been around longer.

regards,
hank

I don't believe FOX does any HD programming of NFL games or otherwise. It
may be digital, but it isn't HD.

wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s03...
I'm flipping between two football games that are both being sent
as HD by Comcast (Warrenville, IL - near Chicago.) The difference
betwee them is like night and day.

On CBS-D the screen looks clean and sharp. The detail is amazing.
For the most part, I'm not seeing any artifacts. OK, there was just a
shot from a camera that was at field level that looked blurred and had
things 'crawling' on the screen. I'm not sure about color though. The
field looks so bright. Perhaps that is its real color. Skin tones
look normal but a lot of other colors look hyper-saturated.

Switch to FOX-D and the difference is like night and day. The
picture looks blurry and edges look as if too much sharpening has
been applied. highlights are blown out and bleeding into adjacent
colors and there is very notable aliasing on near horizontal lines
(at 1080i !!!) Compared to CBS, FOX looks like absolute crap. OK,
there's an occasional shot on CBS that looks as bad as FOX, but all
of the FOX shots look that bad.

Is this a result of the cameras that they are using? It would seem
so since some of CBS' cameras also provide poor results. Or is
something downstream messing up the picture? In the case of FOX,
except for the 16:9 aspect ratio, it looks no better than regular TV.

I'm a newbie to HD, so feel free to point out things that would
otherwise be well known to folks who have been around longer.

regards,
hank

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:19:46 GMT, wrote:
Compared to CBS, FOX looks like absolute crap.

Of course. CBS does HD, FOX doesn't. What you're seeing on the FOX
channel is just 480p widescreen. It doesn't even come close to the
1080i picture you're getting on CBS.


John.

--
*** John P. Kolesar ***
*** --- http://www.shagg.net/ ***
*** Valley Mead Brewery ***
***********************

John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:19:46 GMT, wrote:
Compared to CBS, FOX looks like absolute crap.

Of course. CBS does HD, FOX doesn't. What you're seeing on the FOX
channel is just 480p widescreen. It doesn't even come close to the
1080i picture you're getting on CBS.

So, if FOX shows up as 1080i on my set, then somewhere along the line
the signal is being converted up to 1080i (from 480p.) I'm guessing
the cable company does that, but I don't know enough about my own
equipment to rule it out. From following this group a bit I'm aware
that ultimately the display has to convert to its native resolution
to display. Then again. perhaps my STB (ha! I'm learning some of
the acronyms could also be doing a conversion.

thanks,
hank

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:34:12 GMT, wrote:
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:19:46 GMT, wrote:
Compared to CBS, FOX looks like absolute crap.

Of course. CBS does HD, FOX doesn't. What you're seeing on the FOX
channel is just 480p widescreen. It doesn't even come close to the
1080i picture you're getting on CBS.

So, if FOX shows up as 1080i on my set, then somewhere along the line
the signal is being converted up to 1080i (from 480p.) I'm guessing
the cable company does that, but I don't know enough about my own
equipment to rule it out. From following this group a bit I'm aware
that ultimately the display has to convert to its native resolution
to display. Then again. perhaps my STB (ha! I'm learning some of
the acronyms could also be doing a conversion.

It's probably the cable company doing it. You're not getting any extra
resolution though, since FOX is shooting the game at 480p, but your set
will think it's a 1080 signal.


John.

--
*** John P. Kolesar ***
*** --- http://www.shagg.net/ ***
*** Valley Mead Brewery ***
***********************

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:19:46 GMT, wrote:

I'm flipping between two football games that are both being sent
as HD by Comcast (Warrenville, IL - near Chicago.) The difference
betwee them is like night and day.



FOX football is not HD... only High Resolution widescreen. Huge
difference. Exact numbers, I'm not sure of. 1080i compared to a 680p?

It's probably the cable company doing it. You're not getting any extra
resolution though, since FOX is shooting the game at 480p, but your set will
think it's a 1080 signal.

FOX is shotting the game at 480i not 480p. This is from digital hardware.
All special effects are done in 480i and then converted to 480p for network
distribution. It is pure digital with greater horizontal resolution than
conventional NTSC.

Richard.

John.

--
*** John P. Kolesar ***
*** --- http://www.shagg.net/ ***
*** Valley Mead Brewery ***
***********************

wrote in message news:[email protected]_s04...
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar wrote:
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:19:46 GMT, wrote:
Compared to CBS, FOX looks like absolute crap.

Of course. CBS does HD, FOX doesn't. What you're seeing on the FOX
channel is just 480p widescreen. It doesn't even come close to the
1080i picture you're getting on CBS.

So, if FOX shows up as 1080i on my set, then somewhere along the line
the signal is being converted up to 1080i (from 480p.) I'm guessing
the cable company does that, but I don't know enough about my own
equipment to rule it out. From following this group a bit I'm aware
that ultimately the display has to convert to its native resolution
to display. Then again. perhaps my STB (ha! I'm learning some of
the acronyms could also be doing a conversion.

thanks,
hank
Your cable box is outputting a 1080i signal for all stations, and that
what your TV is registering as 1080i. Fox network only sends out a
480p signal.

wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s03...
I'm not sure about color though. The
field looks so bright. Perhaps that is its real color. Skin tones
look normal but a lot of other colors look hyper-saturated.

Switch to FOX-D and the difference is like night and day. The
picture looks blurry and edges look as if too much sharpening has
been applied. highlights are blown out and bleeding into adjacent
colors and there is very notable aliasing on near horizontal lines

It sounds like you need to tone down the color on your set.

Good perceptions, you are seeing the difference between 1080i (CBS) and 480i
(regular standard definition, Fox).
Once in a while, CBS may sneak in a standard definition shot, because they
don't have enough HD cameras. You can see the difference.
Fox has announced that they will go to HD next year.

wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s03...
I'm flipping between two football games that are both being sent
as HD by Comcast (Warrenville, IL - near Chicago.) The difference
betwee them is like night and day.

On CBS-D the screen looks clean and sharp. The detail is amazing.
For the most part, I'm not seeing any artifacts. OK, there was just a
shot from a camera that was at field level that looked blurred and had
things 'crawling' on the screen. I'm not sure about color though. The
field looks so bright. Perhaps that is its real color. Skin tones
look normal but a lot of other colors look hyper-saturated.

Switch to FOX-D and the difference is like night and day. The
picture looks blurry and edges look as if too much sharpening has
been applied. highlights are blown out and bleeding into adjacent
colors and there is very notable aliasing on near horizontal lines
(at 1080i !!!) Compared to CBS, FOX looks like absolute crap. OK,
there's an occasional shot on CBS that looks as bad as FOX, but all
of the FOX shots look that bad.

Is this a result of the cameras that they are using? It would seem
so since some of CBS' cameras also provide poor results. Or is
something downstream messing up the picture? In the case of FOX,
except for the 16:9 aspect ratio, it looks no better than regular TV.

I'm a newbie to HD, so feel free to point out things that would
otherwise be well known to folks who have been around longer.

regards,
hank