UK indoor

From Digital Spy forum
http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/...d.php?t=205206

MRDAB writes...
"Yeah I got my power arc aerial from there. it needs 2 batteries once in
a blue moon (use some good duracells) it lives ontop of my wardrobe and
is very happily picking up all muxes.

I'm abt 30 miles from sutton coldfield"


Happily picks up all six Muxes or stations. These six stations are
broadcasting at 8 kW (5) and 10 kW (1).

That is indoor reception at 30 miles with ULTRA LOW POWER COFDM
transmitters. We hear complaints in the US when a station is at 120 kW
as being flee powered. I guess the UK is using NANO power transmitters.
So where is this BS about COFDM needing more power than 8-VSB?

In Manhattan we can't get reception at 9 blocks with directional
antennas with the broadcast using 800 kW.

Or to put it another way, 8-VSB can't deliver using 100 times the power
at only ONE sixtieth the distance while using a directional antenna
(arc) while COFDM can deliver using only 1/100th the power uses a simple
omni directional antenna INDOORS.

Bob Miller

Great for the UK, but we have 8-VSB here in the USA and that is not
going to change. Tests show with proper receiver design 8-VSB can be
as good as COFDM for home reception. HDTV receiver chips cost as
little as $8. and receiver costs are coming down with volume
production, so in time reception problems will be worked out at less
cost than switching systems, which is a political and economic
impossibility anyway. We are not going to start driving on the left
hand side of the road either. IB

http://broadcastengineering.com/news...r_praises_new/

Sinclair praises new LG Electronics DTV receiver chips Jun 11, 2004
12:00 PM

Sinclair Broadcast Group, a severe critic of early DTV reception, said
in the latest generation of DTV receiver technology that significant
improvements will mean better over-the-air reception of DTV signals
using simple indoor antennas.

Sinclair's previous concerns were based on 8-VSB modulation standard
DTV signals with strong dynamic multipath (ghosts) and varying signal
levels. Earlier-generation receivers were unable to handle these signal
conditions.

Nat Ostroff, Sinclair's vice president of new technology, said that
he is pleased to see the progress made by Zenith (a brand of L.G.
Electronics) that will allow consumers to easily receive free digital
television broadcasts in their homes. He said that broadcasters and
consumers could now look forward to a robust DTV service delivered
over-the-air without having to subscribe to cable or satellite.

He added that this is especially timely because of the FCC-mandated
rollout of millions of large-screen HDTV receivers with integrated
over-the-air tuners beginning this summer.

Informal joint field tests, conducted last month in Baltimore by
representatives from Sinclair and Zenith, involved testing reception at
sites Sinclair had previously identified as having difficult multipath
conditions. Many of these sites did not have successful reception with
early generations of receivers investigated by Sinclair.

Sinclair said results of the new trials show dramatically improved
reception with the receiver built around a new DTV chip developed by LG
Electronics. The fifth-generation integrated circuit allows it to lock
onto signals in severe multipath environments even when the ghosts have
long delays or are larger than the main signal.

Ostroff said that, with indoor reception now more viable, broadcasters
need to examine their current transmitting power levels to assure that
they deliver an adequate signal inside the home, and consumer
electronics manufacturers need to ensure that breakthrough technologies
such as this are available in the market.

Field data was collected from multiple DTV stations at numerous sites,
including parking garages and sidewalk locations, many without direct
line of sight to the transmitter. Simple indoor antennas were used to
explore the improvements that have been made in indoor reception and
ease-of-use in moderate and strong signal areas.

The fifth-generation receiver chipset tested will be introduced by LG
Electronics later this summer.
----------------------------------
http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...N_Zenith.shtml

News: by Bob Kovacs

Is DTV Reception Problem Solved?
Zenith's receiver draws kudos

WASHINGTON

The scramble to switch television broadcasting to digital sometimes
overlooked what occurred at the final link in the over-the-air
broadcast chain: the viewer.

Although megabucks have been spent to upgrade stations and
simultaneously transmit analog and digital signals, stable and reliable
over-the-air DTV reception has been a crapshoot. However, the latest
generation of DTV receiver technology from LG/Zenith seems to have
solved the worst of the problems and is receiving praise from both
broadcasters and other interested parties.

Dubbed the "fifth-generation" receiver, the new technology has
converted some early DTV skeptics into believers.

"The performance that we got out of the fifth-generation receiver was
as good as what we had seen with COFDM," said Nat Ostroff, president
and CEO of Ai and vice president of new technology for Sinclair
Broadcasting in Hunt Valley, Md.

Ostroff recently observed tests of the LG/Zenith fifth-generation
receiver at several particularly difficult reception locations in
Baltimore, where Sinclair conducted tests of earlier receivers and
comparison tests using COFDM modulation. He had been outspoken in his
criticism of the early adoption of the 8-VSB modulation scheme by the
ATSC, pointing out that field tests up until now showed that reception
in many places was simply impossible.


THE CLIFF EFFECT

The 8-VSB transmission system adopted by the ATSC for DTV transmission
in the U.S. has had many critics among broadcasters and television
insiders, primarily because--until now--consistent reception in a
typical viewing environment was tricky at best. The term "cliff effect"
described what too often happened when watching DTV off the air using
earlier equipment: Either the signal looked perfect on the TV or it
completely dropped out, as if falling off a cliff.

The fifth-generation receiver was far more immune to the cliff effect
during Sinclair Broadcasting's tests of the receiver.

"We had always said that all we are interested in was a viable
over-the-air receiving system and we didn't have it," Ostroff said.
"When 8-VSB can be received as well as a COFDM signal, we'll be the
first to declare that to be the case and congratulate the winner, and
that's exactly what we've done."

Ostroff was enthusiastic about the potential of the fifth-generation
receiver.

"It's the only receiver so far that enables reception indoors with
simple antennas," he said.

The tests Ostroff witnessed in Baltimore used a simple bow-tie antenna
and he said reception was unperturbed by the movement of people in the
vicinity and even active vehicle traffic just a few feet away.

Sinclair Broadcasting's tests were informally duplicated and confirmed
by Mark Schubin, a well-known consulting engineer on television issues
and the creator of "Mark's Monday Memo" that discusses issues in
broadcasting.

Schubin has tried various 8-VSB DTV receivers in his New York apartment
with virtually no reception success, until he was able to test an LG
LST-3100A receiver--a fourth-generation model--that had been upgraded
with the fifth-generation DTV receiving and processing technology.

Like Ostroff, Schubin reported that reception was stable while using a
simple set-top UHF antenna and people moved around the room.

"It was possible to find a location and orientation that caused
problems, but I had to really try," Schubin said in a recent issue of
the memo.

Richard Lewis, vice president of research and technology for Zenith,
said that the inner workings of this latest DTV receiver are a blend of
well-known techniques as well as some proprietary designs.

"The fifth-generation is a much more radical approach," Lewis said. "It
uses a 50 microsecond equalizer window to handle pre-ghost or
post-ghost [multipath] and was really focused on indoor reception and
ease-of-reception with simple antennas."

Earlier generations of receivers could also do pre- and post-ghost
correction but did not have the long pre-ghost window that the latest
generation has.

"The main change was a departure in architecture away from what had
been used [previously]," Lewis said. "It is proprietary so I can't
really get into the details, but it was a chance to throw out the old
design book and take a fresh start at it."


FAVORABLE RESPONSE

Other interested parties have all responded favorably to the tests done
with LG/Zenith's fifth-generation receiver.

Mark Richer, president of the ATSC, has been a leading proponent of
8-VSB modulation used in the U.S. for digital broadcasting.

"It has always been my view that 8-VSB receiver technology would
advance quickly," Richer said. "In this highly competitive marketplace,
you are going to see rapid advancement of DTV receiver technology from
a number of manufacturers."

Manufacturers feel that after years of vilification by broadcasters,
finally they've been vindicated.

"We've said over the years that ATSC reception would improve and I'm
glad that we were proven right," said Mike Petricone, vice president of
technology policy for the Consumer Electronics Association.

Sinclair Broadcasting's Ostroff said that his company is so excited
about the new possibilities of DTV that it produced public service
announcements to promote DTV for consumers. The spots are not specific
to Sinclair and the company is offering them free of charge to any
broadcaster as a way to generate viewer interest in DTV.

Others pursuing LG/Zenith's technology include USDTV, the Salt Lake
City broadcaster that has launched a pay over the air DTV service using
spectrum pooled from participating broadcasters. The company recently
announced it will use fifth-generation DTV receiver chips in its latest
set-top box and expects to ship the product by the end of this year.

Lewis said that Zenith expects to ship the product
this fall.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...N_Zenith.shtml

I am not as pessimistic. There is a good chance that we can change
modulations. While I am pursuing a better 8-VSB receiver from very
reluctant manufacturers I will also push for a modulation change.
Sinclair BTW would be all for it as well despite what they say and mean
about LG 5th gen prototype.

The Senate is showing interest so we will see. If you see a hearing on
the subject posted by the Senate Commerce Committee you will know the
game is on once again.

Bob Miller

wrote:
Great for the UK, but we have 8-VSB here in the USA and that is not
going to change. Tests show with proper receiver design 8-VSB can be
as good as COFDM for home reception. HDTV receiver chips cost as
little as $8. and receiver costs are coming down with volume
production, so in time reception problems will be worked out at less
cost than switching systems, which is a political and economic
impossibility anyway. We are not going to start driving on the left
hand side of the road either. IB

http://broadcastengineering.com/news...r_praises_new/

Sinclair praises new LG Electronics DTV receiver chips Jun 11, 2004
12:00 PM

Sinclair Broadcast Group, a severe critic of early DTV reception, said
in the latest generation of DTV receiver technology that significant
improvements will mean better over-the-air reception of DTV signals
using simple indoor antennas.

Sinclair's previous concerns were based on 8-VSB modulation standard
DTV signals with strong dynamic multipath (ghosts) and varying signal
levels. Earlier-generation receivers were unable to handle these signal
conditions.

Nat Ostroff, Sinclair's vice president of new technology, said that
he is pleased to see the progress made by Zenith (a brand of L.G.
Electronics) that will allow consumers to easily receive free digital
television broadcasts in their homes. He said that broadcasters and
consumers could now look forward to a robust DTV service delivered
over-the-air without having to subscribe to cable or satellite.

He added that this is especially timely because of the FCC-mandated
rollout of millions of large-screen HDTV receivers with integrated
over-the-air tuners beginning this summer.

Informal joint field tests, conducted last month in Baltimore by
representatives from Sinclair and Zenith, involved testing reception at
sites Sinclair had previously identified as having difficult multipath
conditions. Many of these sites did not have successful reception with
early generations of receivers investigated by Sinclair.

Sinclair said results of the new trials show dramatically improved
reception with the receiver built around a new DTV chip developed by LG
Electronics. The fifth-generation integrated circuit allows it to lock
onto signals in severe multipath environments even when the ghosts have
long delays or are larger than the main signal.

Ostroff said that, with indoor reception now more viable, broadcasters
need to examine their current transmitting power levels to assure that
they deliver an adequate signal inside the home, and consumer
electronics manufacturers need to ensure that breakthrough technologies
such as this are available in the market.

Field data was collected from multiple DTV stations at numerous sites,
including parking garages and sidewalk locations, many without direct
line of sight to the transmitter. Simple indoor antennas were used to
explore the improvements that have been made in indoor reception and
ease-of-use in moderate and strong signal areas.

The fifth-generation receiver chipset tested will be introduced by LG
Electronics later this summer.
----------------------------------
http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...N_Zenith.shtml

News: by Bob Kovacs

Is DTV Reception Problem Solved?
Zenith's receiver draws kudos

WASHINGTON

The scramble to switch television broadcasting to digital sometimes
overlooked what occurred at the final link in the over-the-air
broadcast chain: the viewer.

Although megabucks have been spent to upgrade stations and
simultaneously transmit analog and digital signals, stable and reliable
over-the-air DTV reception has been a crapshoot. However, the latest
generation of DTV receiver technology from LG/Zenith seems to have
solved the worst of the problems and is receiving praise from both
broadcasters and other interested parties.

Dubbed the "fifth-generation" receiver, the new technology has
converted some early DTV skeptics into believers.

"The performance that we got out of the fifth-generation receiver was
as good as what we had seen with COFDM," said Nat Ostroff, president
and CEO of Ai and vice president of new technology for Sinclair
Broadcasting in Hunt Valley, Md.

Ostroff recently observed tests of the LG/Zenith fifth-generation
receiver at several particularly difficult reception locations in
Baltimore, where Sinclair conducted tests of earlier receivers and
comparison tests using COFDM modulation. He had been outspoken in his
criticism of the early adoption of the 8-VSB modulation scheme by the
ATSC, pointing out that field tests up until now showed that reception
in many places was simply impossible.


THE CLIFF EFFECT

The 8-VSB transmission system adopted by the ATSC for DTV transmission
in the U.S. has had many critics among broadcasters and television
insiders, primarily because--until now--consistent reception in a
typical viewing environment was tricky at best. The term "cliff effect"
described what too often happened when watching DTV off the air using
earlier equipment: Either the signal looked perfect on the TV or it
completely dropped out, as if falling off a cliff.

The fifth-generation receiver was far more immune to the cliff effect
during Sinclair Broadcasting's tests of the receiver.

"We had always said that all we are interested in was a viable
over-the-air receiving system and we didn't have it," Ostroff said.
"When 8-VSB can be received as well as a COFDM signal, we'll be the
first to declare that to be the case and congratulate the winner, and
that's exactly what we've done."

Ostroff was enthusiastic about the potential of the fifth-generation
receiver.

"It's the only receiver so far that enables reception indoors with
simple antennas," he said.

The tests Ostroff witnessed in Baltimore used a simple bow-tie antenna
and he said reception was unperturbed by the movement of people in the
vicinity and even active vehicle traffic just a few feet away.

Sinclair Broadcasting's tests were informally duplicated and confirmed
by Mark Schubin, a well-known consulting engineer on television issues
and the creator of "Mark's Monday Memo" that discusses issues in
broadcasting.

Schubin has tried various 8-VSB DTV receivers in his New York apartment
with virtually no reception success, until he was able to test an LG
LST-3100A receiver--a fourth-generation model--that had been upgraded
with the fifth-generation DTV receiving and processing technology.

Like Ostroff, Schubin reported that reception was stable while using a
simple set-top UHF antenna and people moved around the room.

"It was possible to find a location and orientation that caused
problems, but I had to really try," Schubin said in a recent issue of
the memo.

Richard Lewis, vice president of research and technology for Zenith,
said that the inner workings of this latest DTV receiver are a blend of
well-known techniques as well as some proprietary designs.

"The fifth-generation is a much more radical approach," Lewis said. "It
uses a 50 microsecond equalizer window to handle pre-ghost or
post-ghost [multipath] and was really focused on indoor reception and
ease-of-reception with simple antennas."

Earlier generations of receivers could also do pre- and post-ghost
correction but did not have the long pre-ghost window that the latest
generation has.

"The main change was a departure in architecture away from what had
been used [previously]," Lewis said. "It is proprietary so I can't
really get into the details, but it was a chance to throw out the old
design book and take a fresh start at it."


FAVORABLE RESPONSE

Other interested parties have all responded favorably to the tests done
with LG/Zenith's fifth-generation receiver.

Mark Richer, president of the ATSC, has been a leading proponent of
8-VSB modulation used in the U.S. for digital broadcasting.

"It has always been my view that 8-VSB receiver technology would
advance quickly," Richer said. "In this highly competitive marketplace,
you are going to see rapid advancement of DTV receiver technology from
a number of manufacturers."

Manufacturers feel that after years of vilification by broadcasters,
finally they've been vindicated.

"We've said over the years that ATSC reception would improve and I'm
glad that we were proven right," said Mike Petricone, vice president of
technology policy for the Consumer Electronics Association.

Sinclair Broadcasting's Ostroff said that his company is so excited
about the new possibilities of DTV that it produced public service
announcements to promote DTV for consumers. The spots are not specific
to Sinclair and the company is offering them free of charge to any
broadcaster as a way to generate viewer interest in DTV.

Others pursuing LG/Zenith's technology include USDTV, the Salt Lake
City broadcaster that has launched a pay over the air DTV service using
spectrum pooled from participating broadcasters. The company recently
announced it will use fifth-generation DTV receiver chips in its latest
set-top box and expects to ship the product by the end of this year.

Lewis said that Zenith expects to ship the product
this fall.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...N_Zenith.shtml

Why are you so hell bet on trading some 8VSB multi-path problems for COFDM
impulse noise problems? Oh, that right, you don't watch (H)DTV, so it
doesn't matter to you. Get over it. COFDM just ain't gonna happen here for
commercial OTA television. I'm pretty happy with the current state of the
art, and it is just going to get better, so buzz off, will ya?

"Bob Miller" wrote in message
nk.net...
I am not as pessimistic. There is a good chance that we can change
modulations. While I am pursuing a better 8-VSB receiver from very
reluctant manufacturers I will also push for a modulation change. Sinclair
BTW would be all for it as well despite what they say and mean about LG 5th
gen prototype.

The Senate is showing interest so we will see. If you see a hearing on the
subject posted by the Senate Commerce Committee you will know the game is
on once again.

Bob Miller

wrote:
Great for the UK, but we have 8-VSB here in the USA and that is not
going to change. Tests show with proper receiver design 8-VSB can be
as good as COFDM for home reception. HDTV receiver chips cost as
little as $8. and receiver costs are coming down with volume
production, so in time reception problems will be worked out at less
cost than switching systems, which is a political and economic
impossibility anyway. We are not going to start driving on the left
hand side of the road either. IB

http://broadcastengineering.com/news...r_praises_new/

Sinclair praises new LG Electronics DTV receiver chips Jun 11, 2004
12:00 PM

Sinclair Broadcast Group, a severe critic of early DTV reception, said
in the latest generation of DTV receiver technology that significant
improvements will mean better over-the-air reception of DTV signals
using simple indoor antennas.

Sinclair's previous concerns were based on 8-VSB modulation standard
DTV signals with strong dynamic multipath (ghosts) and varying signal
levels. Earlier-generation receivers were unable to handle these signal
conditions.

Nat Ostroff, Sinclair's vice president of new technology, said that
he is pleased to see the progress made by Zenith (a brand of L.G.
Electronics) that will allow consumers to easily receive free digital
television broadcasts in their homes. He said that broadcasters and
consumers could now look forward to a robust DTV service delivered
over-the-air without having to subscribe to cable or satellite.

He added that this is especially timely because of the FCC-mandated
rollout of millions of large-screen HDTV receivers with integrated
over-the-air tuners beginning this summer.

Informal joint field tests, conducted last month in Baltimore by
representatives from Sinclair and Zenith, involved testing reception at
sites Sinclair had previously identified as having difficult multipath
conditions. Many of these sites did not have successful reception with
early generations of receivers investigated by Sinclair.

Sinclair said results of the new trials show dramatically improved
reception with the receiver built around a new DTV chip developed by LG
Electronics. The fifth-generation integrated circuit allows it to lock
onto signals in severe multipath environments even when the ghosts have
long delays or are larger than the main signal.

Ostroff said that, with indoor reception now more viable, broadcasters
need to examine their current transmitting power levels to assure that
they deliver an adequate signal inside the home, and consumer
electronics manufacturers need to ensure that breakthrough technologies
such as this are available in the market.

Field data was collected from multiple DTV stations at numerous sites,
including parking garages and sidewalk locations, many without direct
line of sight to the transmitter. Simple indoor antennas were used to
explore the improvements that have been made in indoor reception and
ease-of-use in moderate and strong signal areas.

The fifth-generation receiver chipset tested will be introduced by LG
Electronics later this summer.
----------------------------------
http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...N_Zenith.shtml

News: by Bob Kovacs

Is DTV Reception Problem Solved?
Zenith's receiver draws kudos

WASHINGTON

The scramble to switch television broadcasting to digital sometimes
overlooked what occurred at the final link in the over-the-air
broadcast chain: the viewer.

Although megabucks have been spent to upgrade stations and
simultaneously transmit analog and digital signals, stable and reliable
over-the-air DTV reception has been a crapshoot. However, the latest
generation of DTV receiver technology from LG/Zenith seems to have
solved the worst of the problems and is receiving praise from both
broadcasters and other interested parties.

Dubbed the "fifth-generation" receiver, the new technology has
converted some early DTV skeptics into believers.

"The performance that we got out of the fifth-generation receiver was
as good as what we had seen with COFDM," said Nat Ostroff, president
and CEO of Ai and vice president of new technology for Sinclair
Broadcasting in Hunt Valley, Md.

Ostroff recently observed tests of the LG/Zenith fifth-generation
receiver at several particularly difficult reception locations in
Baltimore, where Sinclair conducted tests of earlier receivers and
comparison tests using COFDM modulation. He had been outspoken in his
criticism of the early adoption of the 8-VSB modulation scheme by the
ATSC, pointing out that field tests up until now showed that reception
in many places was simply impossible.


THE CLIFF EFFECT

The 8-VSB transmission system adopted by the ATSC for DTV transmission
in the U.S. has had many critics among broadcasters and television
insiders, primarily because--until now--consistent reception in a
typical viewing environment was tricky at best. The term "cliff effect"
described what too often happened when watching DTV off the air using
earlier equipment: Either the signal looked perfect on the TV or it
completely dropped out, as if falling off a cliff.

The fifth-generation receiver was far more immune to the cliff effect
during Sinclair Broadcasting's tests of the receiver.

"We had always said that all we are interested in was a viable
over-the-air receiving system and we didn't have it," Ostroff said.
"When 8-VSB can be received as well as a COFDM signal, we'll be the
first to declare that to be the case and congratulate the winner, and
that's exactly what we've done."

Ostroff was enthusiastic about the potential of the fifth-generation
receiver.

"It's the only receiver so far that enables reception indoors with
simple antennas," he said.

The tests Ostroff witnessed in Baltimore used a simple bow-tie antenna
and he said reception was unperturbed by the movement of people in the
vicinity and even active vehicle traffic just a few feet away.

Sinclair Broadcasting's tests were informally duplicated and confirmed
by Mark Schubin, a well-known consulting engineer on television issues
and the creator of "Mark's Monday Memo" that discusses issues in
broadcasting.

Schubin has tried various 8-VSB DTV receivers in his New York apartment
with virtually no reception success, until he was able to test an LG
LST-3100A receiver--a fourth-generation model--that had been upgraded
with the fifth-generation DTV receiving and processing technology.

Like Ostroff, Schubin reported that reception was stable while using a
simple set-top UHF antenna and people moved around the room.

"It was possible to find a location and orientation that caused
problems, but I had to really try," Schubin said in a recent issue of
the memo.

Richard Lewis, vice president of research and technology for Zenith,
said that the inner workings of this latest DTV receiver are a blend of
well-known techniques as well as some proprietary designs.

"The fifth-generation is a much more radical approach," Lewis said. "It
uses a 50 microsecond equalizer window to handle pre-ghost or
post-ghost [multipath] and was really focused on indoor reception and
ease-of-reception with simple antennas."

Earlier generations of receivers could also do pre- and post-ghost
correction but did not have the long pre-ghost window that the latest
generation has.

"The main change was a departure in architecture away from what had
been used [previously]," Lewis said. "It is proprietary so I can't
really get into the details, but it was a chance to throw out the old
design book and take a fresh start at it."


FAVORABLE RESPONSE

Other interested parties have all responded favorably to the tests done
with LG/Zenith's fifth-generation receiver.

Mark Richer, president of the ATSC, has been a leading proponent of
8-VSB modulation used in the U.S. for digital broadcasting.

"It has always been my view that 8-VSB receiver technology would
advance quickly," Richer said. "In this highly competitive marketplace,
you are going to see rapid advancement of DTV receiver technology from
a number of manufacturers."

Manufacturers feel that after years of vilification by broadcasters,
finally they've been vindicated.

"We've said over the years that ATSC reception would improve and I'm
glad that we were proven right," said Mike Petricone, vice president of
technology policy for the Consumer Electronics Association.

Sinclair Broadcasting's Ostroff said that his company is so excited
about the new possibilities of DTV that it produced public service
announcements to promote DTV for consumers. The spots are not specific
to Sinclair and the company is offering them free of charge to any
broadcaster as a way to generate viewer interest in DTV.

Others pursuing LG/Zenith's technology include USDTV, the Salt Lake
City broadcaster that has launched a pay over the air DTV service using
spectrum pooled from participating broadcasters. The company recently
announced it will use fifth-generation DTV receiver chips in its latest
set-top box and expects to ship the product by the end of this year.

Lewis said that Zenith expects to ship the product
this fall.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...N_Zenith.shtml

Who gives a damn about receptivity in the UK,and WHY do you think their
topographics have any bearing on US signal dynamics?

SAC 441 wrote:
Who gives a damn about receptivity in the UK,and WHY do you think their
topographics have any bearing on US signal dynamics?

Yeah! because we all know that RF energy behaves differently when it's
inside arbitrary political borders!!!!!!!!!!!

Idiot.

You know I don't understand why people desire to be so rude when making
posts. You would never have the guts to call him an "idiot" to his
face over such a small issue, but you have no problem mouthing off on
the Web where he is not there to smack you in the face. All the
unhappy people who love to insult others on the Web have psychological
problems that only get in the way of a reasonable and good spirited
discussion. These are not life or death issues, just electronics for
fun.
Rudeness makes other people think you are less intelligent, not more
intelligent.

IB

But you are simply wrong. It will happen here for commercial television
even if the modulation for stations below 51 is not changed. Stations
above 51 will use COFDM and stations below will go out of business.
Congress will then auction off those stations and again they will be
used with COFDM for similar services.

I believe that will happen even if 5th gen receivers show up and do well
because I don't believe commercial TV can survive without mobile
reception. Any broadcaster using current spectrum and 8-VSB is condemned
to compete with satellite, cable, Internet and new mobile services.
Current broadcasters are not doing at all well with their analog
broadcasting. They depend totally on must carry. Sooner or later
Congress is going to notice that they are simply not using those
channels below 51. That the 15% is a myth, that it is more like 4.6% who
depend on OTA and who can't afford to buy cable or satellite and when
they discover that 3.6% of those steal cable or satellite the game is up
and they are going to take back that unused spectrum, channels 2 to 51
and sell it off.

That is the way it is going or do you expect that magically someday soon
the trend will change and people will start buying OTA receivers and the
curve will turn up all by itself? LG doesn't think so, they are betting
that the only receivers to be sold in the US are MANDATED ones in
integrated sets that very few will ever hook up to an antenna.

8-VSB and MPEG2 are doomed one way or another. They simply can't and by
the way are not competing.

Bob Miller

Phil Ross wrote:
Why are you so hell bet on trading some 8VSB multi-path problems for COFDM
impulse noise problems? Oh, that right, you don't watch (H)DTV, so it
doesn't matter to you. Get over it. COFDM just ain't gonna happen here for
commercial OTA television. I'm pretty happy with the current state of the
art, and it is just going to get better, so buzz off, will ya?

"Bob Miller" wrote in message
nk.net...

I am not as pessimistic. There is a good chance that we can change
modulations. While I am pursuing a better 8-VSB receiver from very
reluctant manufacturers I will also push for a modulation change. Sinclair
BTW would be all for it as well despite what they say and mean about LG 5th
gen prototype.

The Senate is showing interest so we will see. If you see a hearing on the
subject posted by the Senate Commerce Committee you will know the game is
on once again.

Bob Miller

SAC 441 wrote:
Who gives a damn about receptivity in the UK,and WHY do you think their
topographics have any bearing on US signal dynamics?

Well they have similar trees, hills etc. and we have tried an advanced
modulation to the one they have in the US. It works here even better
than there. It works in a lot of countries that have easier and more
challenging topography than the US. In fact if you look at a map of the
US you will notice we have wildly varying topography ourselves much of
which is duplicated around the world.

In a word the laws of physics is the same there as here.

Here is a video of COFDM working real well in a location that 8-VSB
simply can't handle. 8-VSB works very poorly to not at all in Manhattan
which is a very challenging place for RF signals of any kind. But COFDM
not only works well there it works mobile there, something 8-VSB would
have a hard time doing anywhere.

www.viacel.com/bob.wmv

Bob Miller

"Bob Miller" wrote in message nk.net...
snip
I don't believe commercial TV can survive without mobile reception.
Any broadcaster using current spectrum and 8-VSB is condemned
to compete with satellite, cable, Internet and new mobile services.
snip
I've never had satellite or cable, and I'm not particularly interested
in watching TV over the Internet or on a mobile phone. I'm also
not interested in paying a big monthly fee just to see more channels
of garbage. Whatever shakes out in OTA, that's what I'll probably
be using. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.