why cant they run the bloody programs on time!

Arthur wrote:
On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 09:22:45 GMT, Roderick Stewart
wrote:

The BBC is dreadful for timekeeping. Even if they are running late
they still
seem to feel the need to pad out the space between programmes with
trails for
future programmes and adverts for themselves.


That's what really p****s me off too. After a programme finishes late,
they refuse to catch up and instead continue to shovel in their promos.
It's particular;y annoying because these expensively-produced adverts
are made with licence money
that should have been spent on the delayed programmes that follow them.

I agree, but we're preaching to the converted in here. It's the fluff
head marketing types that are responsible for TV presentation who have
adopted this policy. They seem to forget the whole idea of BBC TV is to
show programmes, not trailers, but they're too busy producing programme
junction showreels for themselves (with our money) to care.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 11:35:05 +0000, Mark Carver
wrote:

I agree, but we're preaching to the converted in here.


So, I'm sorry. This is the only place anyone *listens*.

Has anyone asked them why they can't run the programmes on time?

Maybe if enough people do then the penny may drop that the
product/customer is cheesed off?


--
Gregory

wrote:
Mark Carver wrote:

But dynamically updated EPG information *with* proper implementation
by the manufacturers to respond to this should give 'PDC
functionality'

I agree with the sentiments of the original poster though - forget all
this technical trickery and bodgery - the time in the EPG (a week
ahead!) should be the _exact_ time the programme will be broadcast.


But what about when a sporting event over-runs and the whole evening's
programmes are delayed? You'd have to ****-off a hell of a lot of sports
fans if you wanted to keep all the programmes perfectly to the schedule
in the Radio Times...


--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

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Arthur wrote:
On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 11:35:05 +0000, Mark Carver
wrote:

I agree, but we're preaching to the converted in here.


So, I'm sorry. This is the only place anyone *listens*.


It might be the only place that you can have a moan about these things
without appearing to be a bit pedantic or a moaner (e.g. it's not
something you bring up in the pub), but I reckon if they bothered to ask
the man in the street whether they think the BBC broadcast too many
adverts (or whatever you want to call them) then I'd expect them to
completely agree with what we think on here.

It's a bit like commercial adverts; when you see a new one sometimes
they're not too bad to watch, but then once you've seen them a certain
number of times, no matter how good they were initially, you just sigh
and think "get on with it". And in that respect that's just what I think
about the sodding BBC things, whatever you call them. Does Ms Heggessey
seriously think that we enjoy watching flamenco dancers grinning inanely
while dancing in the rain for the 1,936th time? And don't even get me
started about their true advertising blitzes they have.....


--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

Find the cheapest Freeview, DAB & MP3 Player Prices:
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http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/mp...e_capacity.htm

Yes, it's nothing clever at all, just a timer. When I'm setting a
recording
timer on any machine, I usually start it one minute early, and end it a
couple
of minutes late if it's an ITV programme, ten minutes late if it's on BBC,
and
fifteen or twenty minutes late if it's a live event that might overrun,
and
sometimes even longer if there's a sporting event before it. At least with
the
Humax I only have to edit a time that's already entered.

Certainly you can edit the time, and for programmes I really want to make
sure I record it I will do that in future, but it is a pain in the arse.
However even this will not solve the problem of recording programmes on
different channels when the end time of one is the same or shortly after the
end time of the other beacuse i would almost certaimlt have to sacrifice the
start of one programme to guarantee the end of the other. I agree with
others about the BBC self promos, but if we got to have them then why are
they not factored into the shedule and only played when they don't affect
start times.

DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
wrote:
Mark Carver wrote:

But dynamically updated EPG information *with* proper
implementation
by the manufacturers to respond to this should give 'PDC
functionality'

I agree with the sentiments of the original poster though - forget
all
this technical trickery and bodgery - the time in the EPG (a week
ahead!) should be the _exact_ time the programme will be broadcast.

But what about when a sporting event over-runs and the whole
evening's
programmes are delayed? You'd have to ****-off a hell of a lot of
sports
fans if you wanted to keep all the programmes perfectly to the
schedule
in the Radio Times...

In those circumstances, as Mark suggested, you need a box that can
detect a change in the EPG or the EIT data and act on it.

That's a useful feature that would be used _sometimes_. As a user, I
probably wouldn't pay extra just for this because I can see when
something like a footie match or the eurovision is likely to knock a
programme I want to see way off in the schedules. That's OK - it's so
rare I'll just tape the whole night's TV if I'm that bothered. Not
ideal - I'd rather have the box pick up the dynamic EIT and use that,
but if it doesn't, I'm probably not that bothered.

However, 90% of the time programmes are running at the wrong time
because the broadcasters have chosen to run them at the wrong time.
It's just not good enough, and I shouldn't have to buy a box with a
special feature just because the TV channels can't (or won't!) keep to
time!

Make the system simple and fool proof. Where possible, broadcast
programmes at the advertised time. Leave the "clever" stuff for special
situations. IF you rely on the "clever" stuff day-by-day, it'll be
about as reliable in practice as PDC.

Cheers,
David.

David Robinson wrote:
The bad time keeping is clearly deliberate. I can understand why they
might want to round it to the nearest five minutes in printed listings

It is indeed absolutely deliberate, and (certainly within ITV)
been going-on for the past thirty-five years at least.

It is cynically done to deliver audiences to advertisers (the customer).
Take 'Coronation Street', billed at 7:30pm, so most fans would tune-in
about 19:29 or so, missing the commercials following the last programme.

By deliberately running the programme as late as 19:34:45 fans are
effectively forced to watch a whole extra commercial break, much to
the glee of advertisers who pay a lot more than you earn in a year
for a 30" spot at this time.

This scheduling trick was pioneered by London Weekend Television
in the early 1970s, who were only on-air two and a quarter days
per week, and found it an effective way to please advertisers
and of course their profits.

Within the TV companies, scheduled timings are known to the exact second
weeks ahead (excluding live sport) and are a closely guarded secret.

So it's nothing new, and nothing to do with incompetent timekeeping !
Note the start time of 'Coronation Street' this evening.

DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
Arthur wrote:

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 11:35:05 +0000, Mark Carver
wrote:


I agree, but we're preaching to the converted in here.


So, I'm sorry. This is the only place anyone *listens*.



It might be the only place that you can have a moan about these things
without appearing to be a bit pedantic or a moaner (e.g. it's not
something you bring up in the pub), but I reckon if they bothered to ask
the man in the street whether they think the BBC broadcast too many
adverts (or whatever you want to call them) then I'd expect them to
completely agree with what we think on here.

It's a bit like commercial adverts; when you see a new one sometimes
they're not too bad to watch, but then once you've seen them a certain
number of times, no matter how good they were initially, you just sigh
and think "get on with it". And in that respect that's just what I think
about the sodding BBC things, whatever you call them. Does Ms Heggessey
seriously think that we enjoy watching flamenco dancers grinning inanely
while dancing in the rain for the 1,936th time? And don't even get me
started about their true advertising blitzes they have.....


Well, I can tell you that the BBC has no real interest in changing.
Three years ago I was appointed to the BBC's London Regional Advisory
Council to discuss and monitor regional TV/radio content - I'm no longer
a member so don't moan at me! On many occasions I complained about
what's been discussed in this thread: programmes not running to
schedule, ads. when the schedule is screwed up, on-screen logos on
BBC3/4, and so on. As you can see, nothing has changed, so, as I see it,
if someone appointed to the BBC as a watchdog/critic can't get anything
changed then I submit that there's no hope for any of us
customers/viewers/BBC staff salary payers/whatever.

Sigh.


Clem

In article ,
The Bloke Next Door wrote:
It is cynically done to deliver audiences to advertisers (the
customer). Take 'Coronation Street', billed at 7:30pm, so most
fans would tune-in about 19:29 or so, missing the commercials
following the last programme.

By deliberately running the programme as late as 19:34:45 fans
are effectively forced to watch a whole extra commercial break,
much to the glee of advertisers who pay a lot more than you earn
in a year for a 30" spot at this time.

The most cynical example of this being News at Ten, which would
play the chimes of Big Ben at about 1005 on occasions. They should
have been had up for contempt of Parliament.

--
Tony Bryer