FTV Card Services NOT Issuing any more Series 2 Cards

Walt Davidson wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 07:53:50 +0100, "Mark Carver"
wrote:

They live well out of DTT range, so how are they
to restore w/s viewing of ITV/4/5 ?

By campaigning to have DTT extended to all areas.

I hope it is, but I bet it won't be. It'll be seen as uneconomic to do so.
Some people still have inadequate analogue signals, never mind DTT.

Satellite TV will always be a "pay" service ..

Well be Beeb will be Free to Air on D-Sat this time next week, though of
course you could argue that they a 'subscription service' anyway.

. just like cable. I notice you are not advocating that
people should be entitled to a free cable TV service.

No, because no precedent has been set with an 'FTV cable' scheme.

Orange wrote:

Why don't they just wave two fingers at Sky and join BBC on a FTA
platform?..

That would require re-negotiation of all of their film and programming rights.
That takes time (maybe the Beeb were working on it years in advance
of this moment ?) C4 and C5 do not have the same big legal department as the
Beeb to deal with these complex issues. ITV have indicated that maybe
next year they may go FTA. C4 already have a deal with Sky for E4 and F4 encryption,
and C5 have just signed a new 5 year deal for encryption and transmission on
Sky. C4 and C5 would need to find space on Astra 2D, though ITV are already
on it.

A better short term solution would be either ITV/4/5 to continue broadcasting
with the P1 card encryption keys. (Sky may charge extra for this)

Or everyone with a P1 card, or who needs a new FTV (P2) card pays a one off
charge (about a Tenner) for it.

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
Orange wrote:

Why don't they just wave two fingers at Sky and join BBC on a FTA
platform?..

That would require re-negotiation of all of their film and programming
rights.
That takes time (maybe the Beeb were working on it years in advance
of this moment ?) C4 and C5 do not have the same big legal department as
the
Beeb to deal with these complex issues. ITV have indicated that maybe
next year they may go FTA. C4 already have a deal with Sky for E4 and F4
encryption,
and C5 have just signed a new 5 year deal for encryption and transmission
on
Sky. C4 and C5 would need to find space on Astra 2D, though ITV are
already
on it.

A better short term solution would be either ITV/4/5 to continue
broadcasting
with the P1 card encryption keys. (Sky may charge extra for this)

Or everyone with a P1 card, or who needs a new FTV (P2) card pays a one
off
charge (about a Tenner) for it.

I was under the impression that the tighter footprint was going to make
copyright much less of a issue? also don't forget the dozens of FTA German
channels which appear to carry an equal range of programming to our own, and
they don't appear to have problems.

Chris Vowles wrote:

It may seem unlikely but ....

- I have been told it by the free to view people (okay not always most
reliable)
- I have it in writing from five duty desk that they will subscription
only
- the same information about five being subscription only has been
published by CAI

You and the CAI might have interpreted Five's information as meaning
that that they will be subs only. My interpretation is that Five (and 4/ITV-1)
will remain FTV on present cards [1]. Five are saying (I think) that from now,
if you buy a Sky box, you'll have to take out a sub to view C5. (As you cannot
obtain an FTV card)

[1] The side issue is how long will P1 FTV cards continue to work. Also *Sky*
and not ITV/4/5, may choose to disable FTV viewing on FTV P2 cards. This
would bring things in the UK into line with Eire, where RTÉ/TV3/TnG are not
available on lapsed Sky cards. What is needed is for the ITC to step in and make
sure that this does not happen, because there is no need for it to (IMHO)
Again if Sky maintain the P1 encryption keys on ITV-1/4/5 there is no need
for the P1 FTV cards to die either. Where are you ITC ?

On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:45:45 +0100, "Mark Carver"
wrote:



You and the CAI might have interpreted Five's information as meaning
that that they will be subs only. My interpretation is that Five (and 4/ITV-1)
will remain FTV on present cards

Yes I hope this is the case BUT that is not what I was told, I was
told that ALL FTV cards will stop decoding five on July 10th.

Other people have ALSO been told this (as posted by Stuart in
alt.satellite.tv.europe etc)

Again I hope this will not be the case

Chris

Walt Davidson writes
A big one. For the last four and half years they have been free on D-Sat.
Many people have paid 100 quid for their box, and several hundred more
on a widecreen TV to enjoy the programmes in 16:9. One of my relations
has done just that. They live well out of DTT range, so how are they to restore
w/s viewing of ITV/4/5 ?

By campaigning to have DTT extended to all areas. That is the way
forward for "free" digital TV. Satellite TV will always be a "pay"
service ... just like cable. I notice you are not advocating that
people should be entitled to a free cable TV service.

There's a fundamental difference between the two models

Cable TV requires the cable operator to construct and maintain a network
so as to connect to your house - including provision of a decoder box.
They expect financial recompense for this and receive it by charging a
subscription for their services.

Satellite TV requires someone to construct and launch a satellite so
that your house might receive a signal. They expect financial
recompense for this and receive it by charging the television channel
for their services. Sky have developed and maintain and EPG; they expect
financial recompense for this - and receive it by charging the
television channel for their services. Sky have 'persuaded' TV channels
to pay for their proprietary CA system; they expect financial recompense
for this - the BBC have now declined to do so, other TV channels pay
them for this.

It's then a matter of discussion as to who should ay for FTV access
cards. Should it be the broadcaster who has public service obligations?
The BBC did pay, but won't any more as they don't require CA. ITV & C4
certainly have public service obligations and (AFAIAA) C5 does too -
should they be made to pay for the cost of providing FTV cards. Sky
provide the CA system, should they provide the FTV cards and meet the
costs from the charges they levy for use of the CA system? Should the
viewer pay a one-off fee for the provision of an FTV card?

All solutions that would provide FTV cards without requiring an ongoing
subscription.

--
Dave

does any other country in europe pay a tv liscence.
"Walt Davidson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:25:42 +0100, "Mark Carver"
wrote:

Walt Davidson wrote:

Satellite TV will always be a "pay" service ..

Well Beeb will be Free to Air on D-Sat this time next week, though of
course you could argue that they a 'subscription service' anyway.

That is just the point. It is not free. You are paying for it.

. just like cable. I notice you are not advocating that
people should be entitled to a free cable TV service.

No, because no precedent has been set with an 'FTV cable' scheme.

Very few countries in Europe distribute their national TV programmes
free via satellite. Germany is the only significant one. France and
Italy still do it in analogue (for how much longer?), but the digital
versions are only available by subscription.

--
Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @freeuk.com

On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:30:58 +0100, "Anthony Thomas"
wrote:

The goverment should tell itv, ch 4 and 5 to pull of this platform these are
supposed to be free to air not subscription channels.

How would that help anyone?

Anthony Thomas writes
does any other country in europe pay a tv liscence.

Ireland.

--
Dave

It might mean that we can get more free channels, for example eurosport
which was a free channel in the uk. I think we should at least be able to
receive the chanels that are broadcast on freeview FTA if they are on the
sky platform.
"K" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:30:58 +0100, "Anthony Thomas"
wrote:

The goverment should tell itv, ch 4 and 5 to pull of this platform these
are
supposed to be free to air not subscription channels.

How would that help anyone?