Sky announce HDCP only Hi Def

Gunther Gloop wrote:
/\/ / & E wrote:
"binbag" wrote in message
...
High Definition TV news Posted Friday, December 3rd, 2004
Viewed 8336 times.
http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-...ws.php?id=7231

Sky drops a high definition bombshell

**** the ******s then, they wont get **** all from me!


Me too. One thing is for certain -it'll be *decades* before every
granny will have a HDCP HD-capable screen. In the meantime, I bet SKY
will be charging exhorbitant fees for these broadcasts. Name your
price!
I hope SKY falls on its head. I won't be watching (I rarely do anyway
though).

I just checked & confirmed my ole HS10 _is_ HDCP-compliant, but I still
won't be watching SKY on it anyway. Haven't done for the past 2 years
either.

-Kevin.

--
Reply to:

binbag wrote:

However, it was when discussing how the HD signal would be delivered
from the Sky decoder box to a projector/plasma TV/LCD TV that the
bombshell emerged, as Sky stated that the vast majority of HDTV
programming will only be viewable if carried via HDMI or DVI
connections that support the HDCP digital rights protection system.
In other words, if your projector or flat panel screen only has
component video inputs or an HDMI/DVI jack NOT compatible with the
HDCP system, it will not show the majority of Sky's HD services.


Won't be long before there's a decoder for those without HDCP. And of course
outboard scalers and converters for Y-Pb-Pr and RGB / SVGA connections. I'm
not worried as I'm not pikey enough to own sky.


--
"Get a paper bag"

Tim S Kemp wrote:
binbag wrote:


However, it was when discussing how the HD signal would be delivered
from the Sky decoder box to a projector/plasma TV/LCD TV that the
bombshell emerged, as Sky stated that the vast majority of HDTV
programming will only be viewable if carried via HDMI or DVI
connections that support the HDCP digital rights protection system.
In other words, if your projector or flat panel screen only has
component video inputs or an HDMI/DVI jack NOT compatible with the
HDCP system, it will not show the majority of Sky's HD services.



Won't be long before there's a decoder for those without HDCP.

I wouldn't count on it. The whole point of HDCP is to prevent piracy as
the signal passes from source to display. As I understand it, any device
that allowed you to get at an unencrypted version of the output could be
seen as aiding copyright infringement and would therefore be illegal
under the digital millenium copyright act (and its european equivalent)
to manufacture or sell (and, for all I know, to own too).

Ben wrote:

I wouldn't count on it. The whole point of HDCP is to prevent piracy
as the signal passes from source to display. As I understand it, any
device that allowed you to get at an unencrypted version of the
output could be seen as aiding copyright infringement and would
therefore be illegal under the digital millenium copyright act (and
its european equivalent) to manufacture or sell (and, for all I know,
to own too).

In the same way as stripping macrovision to enable viewing on some digital
panels as macrovision buggers the image on them. Nothing illegal about that
(my DVD players are faulty, the macrovision isn't working on either of
them).

Building a HDCP device to output a signal to enable legitimate viewing on
peoples expensive investment in plasma / projector / dlp / hi-def CRT or
whatever would make an interesting court case.


--
"Get a paper bag"

"binbag" wrote in message
...
High Definition TV news Posted Friday, December 3rd, 2004
Viewed 8336 times.
http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-...ws.php?id=7231

Sky drops a high definition bombshell

"More news has reached us about Sky's proposed launch of high definition
programming in 2006 - and what we're hearing will send shockwaves
throughout
the AV industry.

Some of the information BSkyB revealed during a recent presentation to the
Digital Interoperability Forum in Brussels seems pretty positive. For
instance, BSkyB apparently announced that its service and HDTV decoder box
will support BOTH 720p/50Hz AND 1080i/25Hz high definition formats, rather
than just going with 720p as was previously anticipated. The choice of
which
HD format will be used for which HD programme is apparently going to be
left
to the platform's individual broadcasters.

However, it was when discussing how the HD signal would be delivered from
the Sky decoder box to a projector/plasma TV/LCD TV that the bombshell
emerged, as Sky stated that the vast majority of HDTV programming will
only
be viewable if carried via HDMI or DVI connections that support the HDCP
digital rights protection system. In other words, if your projector or
flat
panel screen only has component video inputs or an HDMI/DVI jack NOT
compatible with the HDCP system, it will not show the majority of Sky's HD
services.

Sky has long been troubled by how to stop people copying its broadcasts
illegally, so perhaps we shouldn't be too surprised that it's jumping at
the
chance to use HDCP. But the ramifications of the decision are huge for us
punters, as countless flat panel TVs and projectors that don't have the
necessary digital connectivity are already proudly installed in people's
homes, presenting the buyers with the nightmare scenario of having to
upgrade by 2006 a screen they thought would last them for many, many
years.

There are also many screens/projectors in shops right now that don't have
the necessary connectivity, so if you're thinking of buying one for
Christmas - or whenever! - all we can do is stress in the strongest terms
that you try and choose one with an HDCP-compliant HDMI or DVI jack."

Theres an active thread on this at avforums.

binbag.





SKY bashing again! Do I here any critsim of retailers who import HDTV sets
when as yet we don't have any HDTV broadcasts? No. Well this is a classic
"buyer beware" for posers who buy things because they are new!

Building a HDCP device to output a signal to enable legitimate viewing on
peoples expensive investment in plasma / projector / dlp / hi-def CRT or
whatever would make an interesting court case.


I don't think our Chinese friends will be unduly worried.

Of course, the other interesting point is what the BBC will be doing.
There's no way they'll want to miss broadcasting Beijing 2008 in hi-def if
they can. I suspect the Beeb's ethos will be to make the platform more
accessible. By having their own transponders gives them some leeway.

- Basil

Ben wrote:

They should have listened to me then - I've been saying this would
probably happen for the best part of a year now! Same with HD-DVD
players too.

Yes. I believe that in the US, HDCP is already universal on HD-DVD
players with HDMI outputs. You can be sure that this will be the case
when HD-DVD players appear in Europe.

Do you think that all this means that VCRs and DVD recorders will become
obsolete when PAL becomes obsolete? That you will be forced to use
sealed HDCP compliant HD-recorders for time shifting?

--
Dave Farrance

"Tim S Kemp" wrote in message
...

I'm not worried as I'm not pikey enough to own sky.

Just checking, could your head be any further up your own arse?

G

"Tim S Kemp" wrote in message
...
Ben wrote:

I wouldn't count on it. The whole point of HDCP is to prevent piracy
as the signal passes from source to display. As I understand it, any
device that allowed you to get at an unencrypted version of the
output could be seen as aiding copyright infringement and would
therefore be illegal under the digital millenium copyright act (and
its european equivalent) to manufacture or sell (and, for all I know,
to own too).

In the same way as stripping macrovision to enable viewing on some digital
panels as macrovision buggers the image on them. Nothing illegal about
that (my DVD players are faulty, the macrovision isn't working on either
of them).

Building a HDCP device to output a signal to enable legitimate viewing on
peoples expensive investment in plasma / projector / dlp / hi-def CRT or
whatever would make an interesting court case.

You guy obviously don't understand how HDCP works.

Please read http://www.digital-cp.com/ more before commenting on
building/obtaining boxes etc to output RGB etc.

Anyway even if you did get RGB/component/VGA etc where would you find a
suitable RGB/component.VGA display device as the only inputs on high def
displays will be DVI ?

Not wanting to be negative but............ we wait to see.

Also notice that it has key revocation so that if a device is compromised
(like DVD Jon did with DVD's) the key can be revoked. Also keys not related
to each other unlike DVD's where once one or a couple were compromised the
whole lot where very quickly found. How this works in practice we wait to
see, it would be rather unfortunate that your new £6k screen suddenly
stopped working because some hacker in China has been found out !!!!!!!!!!

Dave Farrance wrote:

Do you think that all this means that VCRs and DVD recorders will
become
obsolete when PAL becomes obsolete? That you will be forced to use
sealed HDCP compliant HD-recorders for time shifting?

Oh, it could be worse than that. I don't know the details, but I'm sure
HDCP can carry a "very rich" description of the "rights" of the end
user - which could include (say) Record to external HDCP compliant
recorder: no, while Record to internal Sky HDD: yes.

What a great way to enable them to charge even more for the HD version
of Sky+, by preventing any other recorder from working... I really
must get out of this cynical mood!

I'd imagine, if it's worth hacking, it'll be hacked. Or (as suggested)
"miss-implemented" by our Chinese friends. However, Sky encryption is
unhacked as far as I know.


The BBC should have been first to market (and air) with an open HDTV
DSat system based on open standards, with the option for Sky to add
secure access controlled programming - not the other way around!

But remember people - for under =A350 you can buy a box to plug into
your TV which, in the right area, will give you 30 channels of junk,
and the existing channels, sometimes at lower quality than you've seen
them for 30 years! This is infinitely more important than pre-empting a
single commercial company's total dominance of high definition
broadcasting in the UK. (Unfair, I know, but given the aggressive self
promotion and justification of the BBC, why not expend a little bit of
energy of securing your independent future _out_of_ Rupert's bed?)
Cheers,
David.