"MegaZone" wrote in message
...
"Ted" shaped the electrons to say:
And when they relize they have to pay for this service above their
overpriced cable bills.. you gift is now a disaster. Bet to have all
costs
up front for gifts.

So they can sell it and keep the cash.

They will never get the same amount out that you paid for it...


Or you can give one with a lifetime sub.

The lifetime is not available anymore.....


They offer several options, did you look at the page before slamming
the concept? It doesn't sound like it.

Did you read the page before hitting the reply button? Did you think about
it?



-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer,
me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men"
508-755-4098
URL:http://www.megazone.org/ URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Eris

"Ted" wrote
And when they relize they have to pay for this service above their
overpriced cable bills.. you gift is now a disaster. Bet to have all costs
up front for gifts.
So they can sell it and keep the cash.
They will never get the same amount out that you paid for it...

You get darn near the same amount for the lifetime subscription portion.
And you obviously get more of that back than if you subscribe monthly,
which adds absolutely zero to the resale value of the hardware.


Or you can give one with a lifetime sub.
The lifetime is not available anymore.....

It most certainly is. It isn't available with DirecTV-TiVo combo boxes,
but we weren't talking about that -- you included, as evidenced by
your mentioning of cable bills above.


They offer several options, did you look at the page before slamming
the concept? It doesn't sound like it.
Did you read the page before hitting the reply button? Did you think about
it?

Too rich to touch.

"Ted" wrote
And when they relize they have to pay for this service above their
overpriced cable bills.. you gift is now a disaster. Bet to have all costs
up front for gifts.
So they can sell it and keep the cash.
They will never get the same amount out that you paid for it...

You get darn near the same amount for the lifetime subscription portion.
And you obviously get more of that back than if you subscribe monthly,
which adds absolutely zero to the resale value of the hardware.


Or you can give one with a lifetime sub.
The lifetime is not available anymore.....

It most certainly is. It isn't available with DirecTV-TiVo combo boxes,
but we weren't talking about that -- you included, as evidenced by
your mentioning of cable bills above.


They offer several options, did you look at the page before slamming
the concept? It doesn't sound like it.
Did you read the page before hitting the reply button? Did you think about
it?

Too rich to touch.

"Chief Wiggum" wrote
What rumors? Anyone who would equate lower product availablity during
the holidays with bankruptcy is, frankly, a moron.
Well I heard if from more than a few retailers that stated that TiVo was
going out of biz, and that is why there was little to no product
availability at t time that should have been their busiest sales period.
Anyone who never heard the rumor, must have been living in a cave, or "TiVo
owner Utopia" where TiVo does nothing wrong, and everything that does go
wrong is some other vendor's fault !

They were obviously morons. Why should we care what they
say? Retailers are notorious for misinformation on just about
anything they sell, particularly retailers that sell consumer
electronics such as Best Buy and Circuit City.


And any company who has nearly ZERO product availability during the
holidays, is also moronic! We're not talking about having the initial
stocks wiped out quickly, and not being able to meet demand. THERE WERE NO
STOCKS! to wipe out ! the shelves were empty before the season started.

The should have had more available, that's true. But tell me how
you force retailers to take on more inventory than they want. After
all, these are the same retailers who insisted to you that TiVo was
going out of business a year ago. If that's what they truly thought,
they wouldn't order a lot in the first place (or any at all), resulting
in empty shelves.


Anyway, I see stacks of them in Costco now, and they are making more of an
effort to get the word out. Hopefully this season will show some good
results for the company ..
[Tivo marketing exec ]
Well, now that sales are up, why don't we kick the lifetime cost up to
$350.00... it's been a while since our last price increase ! And while
we're at it, maybe kick up the monthly to $15.95 since our distribution
costs have gone down
[/Tivo marketing exec ]

And if they do and their bottom line increases, what of it? TiVo is
not a right or privelege, but a service that you feel is worth the cost
or not -- regardless of whatever cost they decide to charge. It is
up to the individual to decide what price they will accept and the
duty of the company to its stockholders to charge as much as they
can while maximizing revenue. TiVo for ten cents a month would
net more subscribers, but make less money and TiVo for $30 a
month would net fewer subscribers (and also make less money,
probably). It's their company and if they feel like fishing for the
"sweet spot" in pricing, it's their right to do so.

"Chief Wiggum" wrote
What rumors? Anyone who would equate lower product availablity during
the holidays with bankruptcy is, frankly, a moron.
Well I heard if from more than a few retailers that stated that TiVo was
going out of biz, and that is why there was little to no product
availability at t time that should have been their busiest sales period.
Anyone who never heard the rumor, must have been living in a cave, or "TiVo
owner Utopia" where TiVo does nothing wrong, and everything that does go
wrong is some other vendor's fault !

They were obviously morons. Why should we care what they
say? Retailers are notorious for misinformation on just about
anything they sell, particularly retailers that sell consumer
electronics such as Best Buy and Circuit City.


And any company who has nearly ZERO product availability during the
holidays, is also moronic! We're not talking about having the initial
stocks wiped out quickly, and not being able to meet demand. THERE WERE NO
STOCKS! to wipe out ! the shelves were empty before the season started.

The should have had more available, that's true. But tell me how
you force retailers to take on more inventory than they want. After
all, these are the same retailers who insisted to you that TiVo was
going out of business a year ago. If that's what they truly thought,
they wouldn't order a lot in the first place (or any at all), resulting
in empty shelves.


Anyway, I see stacks of them in Costco now, and they are making more of an
effort to get the word out. Hopefully this season will show some good
results for the company ..
[Tivo marketing exec ]
Well, now that sales are up, why don't we kick the lifetime cost up to
$350.00... it's been a while since our last price increase ! And while
we're at it, maybe kick up the monthly to $15.95 since our distribution
costs have gone down
[/Tivo marketing exec ]

And if they do and their bottom line increases, what of it? TiVo is
not a right or privelege, but a service that you feel is worth the cost
or not -- regardless of whatever cost they decide to charge. It is
up to the individual to decide what price they will accept and the
duty of the company to its stockholders to charge as much as they
can while maximizing revenue. TiVo for ten cents a month would
net more subscribers, but make less money and TiVo for $30 a
month would net fewer subscribers (and also make less money,
probably). It's their company and if they feel like fishing for the
"sweet spot" in pricing, it's their right to do so.

On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 08:49:16 -0800, "Chief Wiggum"
wrote:
Normalized market studies would be acceptable. Note that the "senior
executives at TiVo" are indeed professionals, and indeed, as you
assert, are the one who have the data. Again, who would YOU believe?
Ahh,, must have been those *brilliant* professionals at TiVo that decided to
pull TiVo from every other retail channel except Best Buy. How'd that work
out for them ?

What proof do you offer that there was another approach that was
guaranteed to be better for the stockholders?

Hindsight is always 20/20 and talk is cheap.

Look, I HAVE 4 TiVo's all loaded up with HMO, and lifetime subs. I'm not
wishing them any ill will. I just wish they would fire the morons that are
marketing it BEFORE they go bankrupt, and achieve the penetration that they
deserve.

You're projecting your personal belief that there is a better way onto
reality. (1) There isn't always a better way; (2) It isn't always
clear what would be a better way until it is too late to go that way;
and (3) Often, what seems a better way to an amateur without access to
essential data is actually a clear dead-end.

While other companies are giving away free hardware, and service, bundling
months of free service, and all kind of other marketing catches, TiVo just
rolls along over the year RAISING their prices, (of service) and not being
very creative about marketing.

Name one PVR service that is doing as you suggest, prove that their
stockholders are being served better by that approach, and prove that
TiVO has the ability to take the same approach.

Even the latest holiday thing is kind of stupid. I mean if I prepay 3, 6,
or 12 months of service shouldn't I at LEAST get a discounted price on it ?

I don't know. While my previous career as a management consultant
might qualify me as a professional in this arena, I don't have access
to the data to prove your assertion one way or another.

I suspect that even if you do qualify as an expert as well, you also
don't have the data.

I mean if they have my money to operate with for a year ahead, it should be
discounted to ENCOURAGE me to spend more... Marketing 101.

You might note that Marketing 101 is followed by Marketing 201, 301,
501, 502, 503 and 504.


--
¤bicker¤
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than
to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
- Carl Sagan

People are, of course, welcome to place whatever irrelevant
limitations on their ability to enjoy something that they wish.

On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 08:49:16 -0800, "Chief Wiggum"
wrote:
Normalized market studies would be acceptable. Note that the "senior
executives at TiVo" are indeed professionals, and indeed, as you
assert, are the one who have the data. Again, who would YOU believe?
Ahh,, must have been those *brilliant* professionals at TiVo that decided to
pull TiVo from every other retail channel except Best Buy. How'd that work
out for them ?

What proof do you offer that there was another approach that was
guaranteed to be better for the stockholders?

Hindsight is always 20/20 and talk is cheap.

Look, I HAVE 4 TiVo's all loaded up with HMO, and lifetime subs. I'm not
wishing them any ill will. I just wish they would fire the morons that are
marketing it BEFORE they go bankrupt, and achieve the penetration that they
deserve.

You're projecting your personal belief that there is a better way onto
reality. (1) There isn't always a better way; (2) It isn't always
clear what would be a better way until it is too late to go that way;
and (3) Often, what seems a better way to an amateur without access to
essential data is actually a clear dead-end.

While other companies are giving away free hardware, and service, bundling
months of free service, and all kind of other marketing catches, TiVo just
rolls along over the year RAISING their prices, (of service) and not being
very creative about marketing.

Name one PVR service that is doing as you suggest, prove that their
stockholders are being served better by that approach, and prove that
TiVO has the ability to take the same approach.

Even the latest holiday thing is kind of stupid. I mean if I prepay 3, 6,
or 12 months of service shouldn't I at LEAST get a discounted price on it ?

I don't know. While my previous career as a management consultant
might qualify me as a professional in this arena, I don't have access
to the data to prove your assertion one way or another.

I suspect that even if you do qualify as an expert as well, you also
don't have the data.

I mean if they have my money to operate with for a year ahead, it should be
discounted to ENCOURAGE me to spend more... Marketing 101.

You might note that Marketing 101 is followed by Marketing 201, 301,
501, 502, 503 and 504.


--
¤bicker¤
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than
to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
- Carl Sagan

People are, of course, welcome to place whatever irrelevant
limitations on their ability to enjoy something that they wish.

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:19:59 -0700, "Ted" wrote:
The lifetime is not available anymore.....

What are you talking about?


--
¤bicker¤
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than
to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
- Carl Sagan

People are, of course, welcome to place whatever irrelevant
limitations on their ability to enjoy something that they wish.

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:19:59 -0700, "Ted" wrote:
The lifetime is not available anymore.....

What are you talking about?


--
¤bicker¤
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than
to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
- Carl Sagan

People are, of course, welcome to place whatever irrelevant
limitations on their ability to enjoy something that they wish.

While strolling through alt.video.ptv.tivo, Ted was overheard
plotting:


"MegaZone" wrote in message
...
"Ted" shaped the electrons to say:
And when they relize they have to pay for this service above
their overpriced cable bills.. you gift is now a disaster. Bet
to have all
costs
up front for gifts.

So they can sell it and keep the cash.

They will never get the same amount out that you paid for it...


Same goes for your car, so you dont own one of those either? Hell, 90%
of the things you buy today cant be sold for what you paid, why should
a Tivo. Compare it to any other piece of electronic equipment you have
in your entertainment center, can you sell those for more then you
paid?


Or you can give one with a lifetime sub.

The lifetime is not available anymore.....


This is only true for DirecTivo and in that case most subscribers dont
pay a monthly fee anyway.


They offer several options, did you look at the page before
slamming the concept? It doesn't sound like it.

Did you read the page before hitting the reply button? Did you
think about it?


Did you?


--
David

While strolling through alt.video.ptv.tivo, Ted was overheard
plotting:


"MegaZone" wrote in message
...
"Ted" shaped the electrons to say:
And when they relize they have to pay for this service above
their overpriced cable bills.. you gift is now a disaster. Bet
to have all
costs
up front for gifts.

So they can sell it and keep the cash.

They will never get the same amount out that you paid for it...


Same goes for your car, so you dont own one of those either? Hell, 90%
of the things you buy today cant be sold for what you paid, why should
a Tivo. Compare it to any other piece of electronic equipment you have
in your entertainment center, can you sell those for more then you
paid?


Or you can give one with a lifetime sub.

The lifetime is not available anymore.....


This is only true for DirecTivo and in that case most subscribers dont
pay a monthly fee anyway.


They offer several options, did you look at the page before
slamming the concept? It doesn't sound like it.

Did you read the page before hitting the reply button? Did you
think about it?


Did you?


--
David

My HDVR2 DirecTivo has been acting strangely. A few months ago I added a 2nd
harddrive, so it now has 141 hour capacity. The drives are fairly full ... it
probably tends to have 5-20 hours of unused capacity (based upon how much space
it uses to make recordings on its own, and how much other stuff I then delete).

LIST, changing deletion dates, etc. are incredibly slow. If I go through LIST &
ToDo to delete a few shows, change a few deletion dates, then record a show
through guide, it can end up taking 20-25 minutes because of all the waiting
time. For the most part, the waiting time is waiting for LIST to appear; I can
sort the list quite quickly. Sometimes there's a very long wait before going
back to a program's screen after changing parameters. LIST can even be slow
after simply deleting a program, when there would never need any warnings to be
displayed.

The slowness is almost certainly due to the large # of recorded programs. Short
of deleting programs, can you suggest any way to speed things up?

Recently, I've encountered another problem, which is a real hassle. When I
specify a recording, eg 4-1/2 hours (3 hours + 1-1/2 hour pad) for one of
yesterday's football games (to be kept 1 day), it came back with a long list of
recordings it was going to have to delete early, many at the time recording was
to begin ... far in excess of 4-1/2 hours worth. I had already gone into ToDo &
made sure there was little else (just a 1 hr show) to be recorded in the next
day. Since I didn't want these recordings erased, I said to not do the
recording. Then I deleted 6 hours of recordings which were not due to be
deleted within the next day. I went back & re-specified the recording ... it
still said it would delete many recordings! Finally, I reduced the recording to
3-1/2 hours & said to go ahead. It said it would only delete 2 recordings; I
said to go ahead. It changed the status of these 2 recordings to yellow
exclamation point, but didn't actually delete them. If I tried then tried
extending the deletion date of one of these recordings, it complained about
needing to delete other recordings, etc.

In the past, I've tried padding a 1PM football game during the game ... the
HDVR2 said it would have to delete recordings at 1PM, even though it was after
that ... & never ended up deleting anything.

Do you know when & how the HDVR2 calculates available disk space for various
time periods? It seems as if my HDVR2 is using some faulty numbers. It will
even decide to record 6 or 8 hours of shows on its own, yet complain if I try to
record for 3 hours that it will have to delete some of my explicit recordings
.... clearly the space was there. So I never know when to believe what it tells
me, and I kill a lot of time pruning recordings, etc. ... made all the worse
because it's response time is so slow.

Any idea what's going on & how to fix it?

================================================== =====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail:
================================================== =====

My HDVR2 DirecTivo has been acting strangely. A few months ago I added a 2nd
harddrive, so it now has 141 hour capacity. The drives are fairly full ... it
probably tends to have 5-20 hours of unused capacity (based upon how much space
it uses to make recordings on its own, and how much other stuff I then delete).

LIST, changing deletion dates, etc. are incredibly slow. If I go through LIST &
ToDo to delete a few shows, change a few deletion dates, then record a show
through guide, it can end up taking 20-25 minutes because of all the waiting
time. For the most part, the waiting time is waiting for LIST to appear; I can
sort the list quite quickly. Sometimes there's a very long wait before going
back to a program's screen after changing parameters. LIST can even be slow
after simply deleting a program, when there would never need any warnings to be
displayed.

The slowness is almost certainly due to the large # of recorded programs. Short
of deleting programs, can you suggest any way to speed things up?

Recently, I've encountered another problem, which is a real hassle. When I
specify a recording, eg 4-1/2 hours (3 hours + 1-1/2 hour pad) for one of
yesterday's football games (to be kept 1 day), it came back with a long list of
recordings it was going to have to delete early, many at the time recording was
to begin ... far in excess of 4-1/2 hours worth. I had already gone into ToDo &
made sure there was little else (just a 1 hr show) to be recorded in the next
day. Since I didn't want these recordings erased, I said to not do the
recording. Then I deleted 6 hours of recordings which were not due to be
deleted within the next day. I went back & re-specified the recording ... it
still said it would delete many recordings! Finally, I reduced the recording to
3-1/2 hours & said to go ahead. It said it would only delete 2 recordings; I
said to go ahead. It changed the status of these 2 recordings to yellow
exclamation point, but didn't actually delete them. If I tried then tried
extending the deletion date of one of these recordings, it complained about
needing to delete other recordings, etc.

In the past, I've tried padding a 1PM football game during the game ... the
HDVR2 said it would have to delete recordings at 1PM, even though it was after
that ... & never ended up deleting anything.

Do you know when & how the HDVR2 calculates available disk space for various
time periods? It seems as if my HDVR2 is using some faulty numbers. It will
even decide to record 6 or 8 hours of shows on its own, yet complain if I try to
record for 3 hours that it will have to delete some of my explicit recordings
.... clearly the space was there. So I never know when to believe what it tells
me, and I kill a lot of time pruning recordings, etc. ... made all the worse
because it's response time is so slow.

Any idea what's going on & how to fix it?

================================================== =====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail:
================================================== =====

"David Morgenlender" wrote
[snip]
Any idea what's going on & how to fix it?

Are you taking into account the space the scheduled recordings
(as in the near-future) will require? TiVo calculates space
availability based on what space *will be* available, not how
much space *is* available. Future recordings, in order to
succeed, must have space available to them at that time. This
means that TiVo has to reserve space for them in advance.

This gets especially bad if you use "Save Until I Delete" a lot --
especially when setting a Season Pass. Setting up a Season
Pass as "SUID" effectively reduces the capacity of your
recorder by the amount of space needed to record every
episode of that show in the next 12 days or so. If you don't
delete after watching quickly, the result is a recorder that
will quickly claim that it is out of space and needs to delete
things earlier than planned.

"David Morgenlender" wrote
[snip]
Any idea what's going on & how to fix it?

Are you taking into account the space the scheduled recordings
(as in the near-future) will require? TiVo calculates space
availability based on what space *will be* available, not how
much space *is* available. Future recordings, in order to
succeed, must have space available to them at that time. This
means that TiVo has to reserve space for them in advance.

This gets especially bad if you use "Save Until I Delete" a lot --
especially when setting a Season Pass. Setting up a Season
Pass as "SUID" effectively reduces the capacity of your
recorder by the amount of space needed to record every
episode of that show in the next 12 days or so. If you don't
delete after watching quickly, the result is a recorder that
will quickly claim that it is out of space and needs to delete
things earlier than planned.

"Bao H. Lammy" wrote:

"David Morgenlender" wrote
[snip]
Any idea what's going on & how to fix it?

Are you taking into account the space the scheduled recordings
(as in the near-future) will require? TiVo calculates space
availability based on what space *will be* available, not how
much space *is* available. Future recordings, in order to
succeed, must have space available to them at that time. This
means that TiVo has to reserve space for them in advance.

This gets especially bad if you use "Save Until I Delete" a lot --
especially when setting a Season Pass. Setting up a Season
Pass as "SUID" effectively reduces the capacity of your
recorder by the amount of space needed to record every
episode of that show in the next 12 days or so. If you don't
delete after watching quickly, the result is a recorder that
will quickly claim that it is out of space and needs to delete
things earlier than planned.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm quite familiar with the "SUID" problem, since I
run into it often. Very annoying because I do have many SUID's ... I know many
will be deleted by the time the space is needed; but I often don't know which.

In this case, it was not an SUID problem. The new recording was to be kept for
1 Day. I had gone through the ToDo list & deleted everything in that period
except a single one hour show. I took this 1 hour into account. It had
occurred to me the problem could be Tivo not taking the space freed by the
deletions in ToDo & List into account when calculating free space; but I've run
into the problem long after any deletions ... so, unless Tivo can wait a long
time (over a day) before recalculating free space, that's not always the cause.

================================================== =====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail:
================================================== =====

"Bao H. Lammy" wrote:

"David Morgenlender" wrote
[snip]
Any idea what's going on & how to fix it?

Are you taking into account the space the scheduled recordings
(as in the near-future) will require? TiVo calculates space
availability based on what space *will be* available, not how
much space *is* available. Future recordings, in order to
succeed, must have space available to them at that time. This
means that TiVo has to reserve space for them in advance.

This gets especially bad if you use "Save Until I Delete" a lot --
especially when setting a Season Pass. Setting up a Season
Pass as "SUID" effectively reduces the capacity of your
recorder by the amount of space needed to record every
episode of that show in the next 12 days or so. If you don't
delete after watching quickly, the result is a recorder that
will quickly claim that it is out of space and needs to delete
things earlier than planned.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm quite familiar with the "SUID" problem, since I
run into it often. Very annoying because I do have many SUID's ... I know many
will be deleted by the time the space is needed; but I often don't know which.

In this case, it was not an SUID problem. The new recording was to be kept for
1 Day. I had gone through the ToDo list & deleted everything in that period
except a single one hour show. I took this 1 hour into account. It had
occurred to me the problem could be Tivo not taking the space freed by the
deletions in ToDo & List into account when calculating free space; but I've run
into the problem long after any deletions ... so, unless Tivo can wait a long
time (over a day) before recalculating free space, that's not always the cause.

================================================== =====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail:
================================================== =====

Chief Wiggum wrote:

Ahh,, must have been those *brilliant* professionals at TiVo that decided to
pull TiVo from every other retail channel except Best Buy.

Advertising circulars in the Sundy paper for 9-Nov-2003:

Magnolia Hi-Fi
TiVo digital video recorder (40 hours)

Circuit City
DIRECTV DVR with TiVo
TiVo, TV your way(tm) digital video recorder (40 hours)
TiVo, TV your way(tm) digital video recorder (80 hours)
Samsung DirecTV with TiVo (100 hours) SAM SIRS4120R
Hughes DirecTV with TiVo (100 hours) HNS SDDVR120

Best Buy
Toshiba DVD player with TiVo digital video recorder SD-H400
Pioneer DVD recorder with TiVo digital video recorder DVR810
Hughes HDVR2
Philips DSR708
Philips DSR7000
TiVo Series 2 (40 hour)
TiVo Series 2 (80 hour)
RCA DirecTV with TiVo DVR39

Lots of different TiVo-enabled products in several retail channels.
-Joe

Chief Wiggum wrote:

Ahh,, must have been those *brilliant* professionals at TiVo that decided to
pull TiVo from every other retail channel except Best Buy.

Advertising circulars in the Sundy paper for 9-Nov-2003:

Magnolia Hi-Fi
TiVo digital video recorder (40 hours)

Circuit City
DIRECTV DVR with TiVo
TiVo, TV your way(tm) digital video recorder (40 hours)
TiVo, TV your way(tm) digital video recorder (80 hours)
Samsung DirecTV with TiVo (100 hours) SAM SIRS4120R
Hughes DirecTV with TiVo (100 hours) HNS SDDVR120

Best Buy
Toshiba DVD player with TiVo digital video recorder SD-H400
Pioneer DVD recorder with TiVo digital video recorder DVR810
Hughes HDVR2
Philips DSR708
Philips DSR7000
TiVo Series 2 (40 hour)
TiVo Series 2 (80 hour)
RCA DirecTV with TiVo DVR39

Lots of different TiVo-enabled products in several retail channels.
-Joe

"David Morgenlender" wrote
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm quite familiar with the "SUID" problem, since I
run into it often. Very annoying because I do have many SUID's ... I know many
will be deleted by the time the space is needed; but I often don't know which.
In this case, it was not an SUID problem. The new recording was to be kept for
1 Day. I had gone through the ToDo list & deleted everything in that period
except a single one hour show. I took this 1 hour into account. It had
occurred to me the problem could be Tivo not taking the space freed by the
deletions in ToDo & List into account when calculating free space; but I've run
into the problem long after any deletions ... so, unless Tivo can wait a long
time (over a day) before recalculating free space, that's not always the cause.

Since you have a DirecTiVo, how do you really know
(and how does TiVo really know) how much space a
scheduled recording will use? The capacity is not static
like a standalone. (A SA machine has four quality settings
that use different amounts of space, so it varies in a sense,
but assuming VBR/Save Disk Space is turned off, it is
"more static" than a DirecTiVo.) Hence, the machine
may be aggressively reserving space for future recordings
just in case DirecTV bumps up the bit rate for that airing.

Also, you say you cleared the To-Do list "for that period."
After you clear those items, other items may try to record
(and therefore have space reserved for them as well). The
things that conflicted with the scheduled items (that you
deleted from the To-Do List) take time to actually appear
in the To-Do list themselves, but the space they need may
be calculated and reserved earlier. It's not exactly clear
when free space is calculated, and such may not even occur
at easily calculated intervals. (Sometimes it may occur
immediately, other times hours later.)

To be clear, do you have a lot of SUID items as Season
Passes? By this, I mean are they set to record as green-dot
SUID items in the Season Pass settings? Do you manually
change your SUID items after they record or do they record
that way, iow? I understand that you have a lot of SUID
items in Now Playing, but that's not what I'm asking here.

Finally, the program you wanted to record that caused all
these problems was a football game. That is undoubtedly
aired by DirecTV with an extremely high bit rate, which
takes up more drive space. Perhaps the game is coded as
a high bitrate item somehow by TiVo, so it reserves a lot
of space for it before it even starts.

I'm out of ideas now.

"David Morgenlender" wrote
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm quite familiar with the "SUID" problem, since I
run into it often. Very annoying because I do have many SUID's ... I know many
will be deleted by the time the space is needed; but I often don't know which.
In this case, it was not an SUID problem. The new recording was to be kept for
1 Day. I had gone through the ToDo list & deleted everything in that period
except a single one hour show. I took this 1 hour into account. It had
occurred to me the problem could be Tivo not taking the space freed by the
deletions in ToDo & List into account when calculating free space; but I've run
into the problem long after any deletions ... so, unless Tivo can wait a long
time (over a day) before recalculating free space, that's not always the cause.

Since you have a DirecTiVo, how do you really know
(and how does TiVo really know) how much space a
scheduled recording will use? The capacity is not static
like a standalone. (A SA machine has four quality settings
that use different amounts of space, so it varies in a sense,
but assuming VBR/Save Disk Space is turned off, it is
"more static" than a DirecTiVo.) Hence, the machine
may be aggressively reserving space for future recordings
just in case DirecTV bumps up the bit rate for that airing.

Also, you say you cleared the To-Do list "for that period."
After you clear those items, other items may try to record
(and therefore have space reserved for them as well). The
things that conflicted with the scheduled items (that you
deleted from the To-Do List) take time to actually appear
in the To-Do list themselves, but the space they need may
be calculated and reserved earlier. It's not exactly clear
when free space is calculated, and such may not even occur
at easily calculated intervals. (Sometimes it may occur
immediately, other times hours later.)

To be clear, do you have a lot of SUID items as Season
Passes? By this, I mean are they set to record as green-dot
SUID items in the Season Pass settings? Do you manually
change your SUID items after they record or do they record
that way, iow? I understand that you have a lot of SUID
items in Now Playing, but that's not what I'm asking here.

Finally, the program you wanted to record that caused all
these problems was a football game. That is undoubtedly
aired by DirecTV with an extremely high bit rate, which
takes up more drive space. Perhaps the game is coded as
a high bitrate item somehow by TiVo, so it reserves a lot
of space for it before it even starts.

I'm out of ideas now.

Bao H. Lammy ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
The capacity is not static
like a standalone. (A SA machine has four quality settings
that use different amounts of space, so it varies in a sense,
but assuming VBR/Save Disk Space is turned off, it is
"more static" than a DirecTiVo.)

With VBR off, TiVo knows exactly how much space each recording will
take up, so it can do the math to figure out if a recording would have
to be "deleted early".

For a DirecTiVo, it is just a guess, and I don't know how educated it
is. For example, I don't know if it takes into account previous known
bitrates for a channel (very educated), has hardcoded numbers based on
channel # or type (somewhat educated), or just has a fixed number for
all channels (pretty dumb).

Finally, the program you wanted to record that caused all
these problems was a football game. That is undoubtedly
aired by DirecTV with an extremely high bit rate, which
takes up more drive space.

If you record an NFL Sunday Ticket channel, any estimate will generally
be wildly off, because the timeslot is 5 hours and no game lasts that long,
and the "after the game graphics" are incredibly low bitrate.

--
Jeff Rife |
For address harvesters: | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/BabyBlues/TVDistance.gif
|
|
|

Bao H. Lammy ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
The capacity is not static
like a standalone. (A SA machine has four quality settings
that use different amounts of space, so it varies in a sense,
but assuming VBR/Save Disk Space is turned off, it is
"more static" than a DirecTiVo.)

With VBR off, TiVo knows exactly how much space each recording will
take up, so it can do the math to figure out if a recording would have
to be "deleted early".

For a DirecTiVo, it is just a guess, and I don't know how educated it
is. For example, I don't know if it takes into account previous known
bitrates for a channel (very educated), has hardcoded numbers based on
channel # or type (somewhat educated), or just has a fixed number for
all channels (pretty dumb).

Finally, the program you wanted to record that caused all
these problems was a football game. That is undoubtedly
aired by DirecTV with an extremely high bit rate, which
takes up more drive space.

If you record an NFL Sunday Ticket channel, any estimate will generally
be wildly off, because the timeslot is 5 hours and no game lasts that long,
and the "after the game graphics" are incredibly low bitrate.

--
Jeff Rife |
For address harvesters: | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/BabyBlues/TVDistance.gif
|
|
|

I think if they would have included basic service from day one, there
would
be 10 times as many units out there..

I just HOPE they have the vision to add it to the standalone boxes now!

They do not. As long as people are willing to be locked into paying $13 per
unit per month, why should they?

I bought a refurbished Series 1 and am not acctivating it so I can do the
manual recordings on it. I also have a series2 that I do pay for. I don't
mind paying $13 for the Guide and the convieniance, but do not think it is
worth $26 per month.

I am not complaining. I will pay for 1 and manually program the other.

I think if they would have included basic service from day one, there
would
be 10 times as many units out there..

I just HOPE they have the vision to add it to the standalone boxes now!

They do not. As long as people are willing to be locked into paying $13 per
unit per month, why should they?

I bought a refurbished Series 1 and am not acctivating it so I can do the
manual recordings on it. I also have a series2 that I do pay for. I don't
mind paying $13 for the Guide and the convieniance, but do not think it is
worth $26 per month.

I am not complaining. I will pay for 1 and manually program the other.

"Bao H. Lammy" wrote:

Since you have a DirecTiVo, how do you really know
(and how does TiVo really know) how much space a
scheduled recording will use? The capacity is not static
like a standalone. (A SA machine has four quality settings
that use different amounts of space, so it varies in a sense,
but assuming VBR/Save Disk Space is turned off, it is
"more static" than a DirecTiVo.) Hence, the machine
may be aggressively reserving space for future recordings
just in case DirecTV bumps up the bit rate for that airing.

Good point. I hadn't thought about that. I was thinking since the best quality
is always used, file size could be accurately determined ahead of time. It
would explain most, if not all, of the "wrong" disk space predictions.
Presumably, when Tivo says it's going to delete a recording when the new
recording starts at 1PM, it's really saying it could delete a recording at some
time during the new recording, if it really needs the space; this can only be
determined after the bitrate is determined, or, if the bitrate is dynamic, when
the space is actually needed (in addition to calculations of the minimum &
maximum bitrate cases).


Also, you say you cleared the To-Do list "for that period."
After you clear those items, other items may try to record
(and therefore have space reserved for them as well).

Theoretically, but not likely in these specific cases, since it would require a
schedule change for the next 24 hours (plus a few minutes, since the recording
period hasn't quite yet started). Otherwise, presumably, there's no way
anything I specified should result in a surprise new recording. Tivo may decide
to record something to fill available disk space, except it doesn't think there
is any, and this would be deleted when space is needed anyway. Is there any
other way for Tivo to try an unexpected (ie not on the ToDo) recording?


The
things that conflicted with the scheduled items (that you
deleted from the To-Do List) take time to actually appear
in the To-Do list themselves, but the space they need may
be calculated and reserved earlier. It's not exactly clear
when free space is calculated, and such may not even occur
at easily calculated intervals. (Sometimes it may occur
immediately, other times hours later.)

Presumably, worst case space requirements are calculated quickly, eg after a new
recording is specified. Otherwise, Tivo could end up having to delete a
recording early, without any warning. But, in the case of space being freed up,
I wouldn't be surprised if it happens at a later time.


To be clear, do you have a lot of SUID items as Season
Passes? By this, I mean are they set to record as green-dot
SUID items in the Season Pass settings?

Quite a few. I've been reducing the number as much as possible, without putting
"critical" recordings at risk.


Do you manually
change your SUID items after they record or do they record
that way, iow? I understand that you have a lot of SUID
items in Now Playing, but that's not what I'm asking here.

I sometimes change from SUID to a specific time period, or when disk space is
needed. But this is rare. More likely, I go the other way; eg I start
watching a recording & stop in the middle; since I definitely don't want this
deleted, I'll set it to SUID.


Finally, the program you wanted to record that caused all
these problems was a football game. That is undoubtedly
aired by DirecTV with an extremely high bit rate, which
takes up more drive space. Perhaps the game is coded as
a high bitrate item somehow by TiVo, so it reserves a lot
of space for it before it even starts.

I'm out of ideas now.

You've come up with enough ideas. Thanks! Now, if you have any ideas how to
speed the thing up ... :)

================================================== =====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail:
================================================== =====

"Bao H. Lammy" wrote:

Since you have a DirecTiVo, how do you really know
(and how does TiVo really know) how much space a
scheduled recording will use? The capacity is not static
like a standalone. (A SA machine has four quality settings
that use different amounts of space, so it varies in a sense,
but assuming VBR/Save Disk Space is turned off, it is
"more static" than a DirecTiVo.) Hence, the machine
may be aggressively reserving space for future recordings
just in case DirecTV bumps up the bit rate for that airing.

Good point. I hadn't thought about that. I was thinking since the best quality
is always used, file size could be accurately determined ahead of time. It
would explain most, if not all, of the "wrong" disk space predictions.
Presumably, when Tivo says it's going to delete a recording when the new
recording starts at 1PM, it's really saying it could delete a recording at some
time during the new recording, if it really needs the space; this can only be
determined after the bitrate is determined, or, if the bitrate is dynamic, when
the space is actually needed (in addition to calculations of the minimum &
maximum bitrate cases).


Also, you say you cleared the To-Do list "for that period."
After you clear those items, other items may try to record
(and therefore have space reserved for them as well).

Theoretically, but not likely in these specific cases, since it would require a
schedule change for the next 24 hours (plus a few minutes, since the recording
period hasn't quite yet started). Otherwise, presumably, there's no way
anything I specified should result in a surprise new recording. Tivo may decide
to record something to fill available disk space, except it doesn't think there
is any, and this would be deleted when space is needed anyway. Is there any
other way for Tivo to try an unexpected (ie not on the ToDo) recording?


The
things that conflicted with the scheduled items (that you
deleted from the To-Do List) take time to actually appear
in the To-Do list themselves, but the space they need may
be calculated and reserved earlier. It's not exactly clear
when free space is calculated, and such may not even occur
at easily calculated intervals. (Sometimes it may occur
immediately, other times hours later.)

Presumably, worst case space requirements are calculated quickly, eg after a new
recording is specified. Otherwise, Tivo could end up having to delete a
recording early, without any warning. But, in the case of space being freed up,
I wouldn't be surprised if it happens at a later time.


To be clear, do you have a lot of SUID items as Season
Passes? By this, I mean are they set to record as green-dot
SUID items in the Season Pass settings?

Quite a few. I've been reducing the number as much as possible, without putting
"critical" recordings at risk.


Do you manually
change your SUID items after they record or do they record
that way, iow? I understand that you have a lot of SUID
items in Now Playing, but that's not what I'm asking here.

I sometimes change from SUID to a specific time period, or when disk space is
needed. But this is rare. More likely, I go the other way; eg I start
watching a recording & stop in the middle; since I definitely don't want this
deleted, I'll set it to SUID.


Finally, the program you wanted to record that caused all
these problems was a football game. That is undoubtedly
aired by DirecTV with an extremely high bit rate, which
takes up more drive space. Perhaps the game is coded as
a high bitrate item somehow by TiVo, so it reserves a lot
of space for it before it even starts.

I'm out of ideas now.

You've come up with enough ideas. Thanks! Now, if you have any ideas how to
speed the thing up ... :)

================================================== =====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail:
================================================== =====

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:39:24 -0500, David Morgenlender wrote:


The slowness is almost certainly due to the large # of recorded programs. Short
of deleting programs, can you suggest any way to speed things up?


I'm watching this thread for an answer to the above question ;-

My heavily-used HDVR2 is at 243 hours, and everything involving a list of programs is dog
slow. Reordering season passes is painful, takes 4-5 minutes.

Best Regards,

Tim ==

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:39:24 -0500, David Morgenlender wrote:


The slowness is almost certainly due to the large # of recorded programs. Short
of deleting programs, can you suggest any way to speed things up?


I'm watching this thread for an answer to the above question ;-

My heavily-used HDVR2 is at 243 hours, and everything involving a list of programs is dog
slow. Reordering season passes is painful, takes 4-5 minutes.

Best Regards,

Tim ==

* xpanmanx Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo, on Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:25:03 -0600:
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:39:24 -0500, David Morgenlender wrote:


The slowness is almost certainly due to the large # of recorded programs. Short
of deleting programs, can you suggest any way to speed things up?


I'm watching this thread for an answer to the above question ;-

My heavily-used HDVR2 is at 243 hours, and everything involving a list of programs is dog
slow. Reordering season passes is painful, takes 4-5 minutes.

From what I have read there are only 2 solutions and I am not sure if
they all work on all models BUT:

You can change the size of the swapfile in the OS or solder more ram on
the MB. Other then that I think its just something to live with. THe
only time it really annoys me is when you are messing with season pass
priority, that can sometimes take 15 - 30 minutes for me.

--
David | AGM Favorite Games - http://tinyurl.com/loec
The most important service rendered by the press is that of educating
people to approach printed matter with distrust.

* xpanmanx Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo, on Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:25:03 -0600:
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:39:24 -0500, David Morgenlender wrote:


The slowness is almost certainly due to the large # of recorded programs. Short
of deleting programs, can you suggest any way to speed things up?


I'm watching this thread for an answer to the above question ;-

My heavily-used HDVR2 is at 243 hours, and everything involving a list of programs is dog
slow. Reordering season passes is painful, takes 4-5 minutes.

From what I have read there are only 2 solutions and I am not sure if
they all work on all models BUT:

You can change the size of the swapfile in the OS or solder more ram on
the MB. Other then that I think its just something to live with. THe
only time it really annoys me is when you are messing with season pass
priority, that can sometimes take 15 - 30 minutes for me.

--
David | AGM Favorite Games - http://tinyurl.com/loec
The most important service rendered by the press is that of educating
people to approach printed matter with distrust.

"David Morgenlender" wrote
Good point. I hadn't thought about that. I was thinking since the best quality
is always used, file size could be accurately determined ahead of time. It
would explain most, if not all, of the "wrong" disk space predictions.
Presumably, when Tivo says it's going to delete a recording when the new
recording starts at 1PM, it's really saying it could delete a recording at some
time during the new recording, if it really needs the space; this can only be
determined after the bitrate is determined, or, if the bitrate is dynamic, when
the space is actually needed (in addition to calculations of the minimum &
maximum bitrate cases).

Yes. "Could delete" is exactly how it thinks.


Also, you say you cleared the To-Do list "for that period."
After you clear those items, other items may try to record
(and therefore have space reserved for them as well).
Theoretically, but not likely in these specific cases, since it would require a
schedule change for the next 24 hours (plus a few minutes, since the recording
period hasn't quite yet started). Otherwise, presumably, there's no way
anything I specified should result in a surprise new recording. Tivo may decide
to record something to fill available disk space, except it doesn't think there
is any, and this would be deleted when space is needed anyway. Is there any
other way for Tivo to try an unexpected (ie not on the ToDo) recording?

WishLists. This happens to me quite often, in fact. I clear my To-Do
List and wait a few minutes to make sure nothing appears to take the
place of items I've removed from To-Do. I also make sure to check
(via View Recording History) if there are programs that would have
been scheduled but were not because the now-removed-from-To-Do
items hadn't been removed yet. What I forget to do is check WishLists
that auto-record. Actually, it's not so much forgetting as realizing that
checking all auto-record WLs is way too time-consuming.


The
things that conflicted with the scheduled items (that you
deleted from the To-Do List) take time to actually appear
in the To-Do list themselves, but the space they need may
be calculated and reserved earlier. It's not exactly clear
when free space is calculated, and such may not even occur
at easily calculated intervals. (Sometimes it may occur
immediately, other times hours later.)
Presumably, worst case space requirements are calculated quickly, eg after a new
recording is specified. Otherwise, Tivo could end up having to delete a
recording early, without any warning. But, in the case of space being freed up,
I wouldn't be surprised if it happens at a later time.

I have actually seen items in the Recording History deleted with an
message that states something to the effect of "was deleted earlier
than expected at xx:yy," where yy is an oddball time that has nothing
to do with the start time of a recording -- for example, 11:17am.
Even with VBR turned off on my standalone, the calculations are
apparently not perfect. This has only happened when my drives
were very full.


To be clear, do you have a lot of SUID items as Season
Passes? By this, I mean are they set to record as green-dot
SUID items in the Season Pass settings?
Quite a few. I've been reducing the number as much as possible,
without putting "critical" recordings at risk.

I've warned people not to use this feature a lot in their SP
and ARWL settings. With 12 days in advance of guide data,
too much space gets reserved "forever" in TiVo's eyes.


Do you manually
change your SUID items after they record or do they record
that way, iow? I understand that you have a lot of SUID
items in Now Playing, but that's not what I'm asking here.
I sometimes change from SUID to a specific time period, or when disk space is
needed. But this is rare. More likely, I go the other way; eg I start
watching a recording & stop in the middle; since I definitely don't want this
deleted, I'll set it to SUID.

You actually answered my question above and split my words
into two blocks. I was being a bit redundant in my questioning,
which was intended to determine whether most of your SUID
items in Now Playing are a result of you changing them to SUID
or a result of the *SP or ARWL themselves* set as SUID. I
recommend changing the Save Until to a further date vs. SUID
unless you find yourself extending save times on many items
frequently, which is tedious. More important is to strictly limit
SUID use in the SP/ARWL themselves, however.


Finally, the program you wanted to record that caused all
these problems was a football game. That is undoubtedly
aired by DirecTV with an extremely high bit rate, which
takes up more drive space. Perhaps the game is coded as
a high bitrate item somehow by TiVo, so it reserves a lot
of space for it before it even starts.
I'm out of ideas now.
You've come up with enough ideas. Thanks! Now, if you have any
ideas how to speed the thing up ... :)

Besides reducing the number of SPs and ARWLs, there's not
much you can do. They didn't expect people to have such
large drives, so they are a bit underpowered as a result. (More
drive space allows you to make many many SPs/ARWLs and
still have the system useable; with a 30-60 GB system as
designed, having 100-300+ such items would be a nightmare.)

"David Morgenlender" wrote
Good point. I hadn't thought about that. I was thinking since the best quality
is always used, file size could be accurately determined ahead of time. It
would explain most, if not all, of the "wrong" disk space predictions.
Presumably, when Tivo says it's going to delete a recording when the new
recording starts at 1PM, it's really saying it could delete a recording at some
time during the new recording, if it really needs the space; this can only be
determined after the bitrate is determined, or, if the bitrate is dynamic, when
the space is actually needed (in addition to calculations of the minimum &
maximum bitrate cases).

Yes. "Could delete" is exactly how it thinks.


Also, you say you cleared the To-Do list "for that period."
After you clear those items, other items may try to record
(and therefore have space reserved for them as well).
Theoretically, but not likely in these specific cases, since it would require a
schedule change for the next 24 hours (plus a few minutes, since the recording
period hasn't quite yet started). Otherwise, presumably, there's no way
anything I specified should result in a surprise new recording. Tivo may decide
to record something to fill available disk space, except it doesn't think there
is any, and this would be deleted when space is needed anyway. Is there any
other way for Tivo to try an unexpected (ie not on the ToDo) recording?

WishLists. This happens to me quite often, in fact. I clear my To-Do
List and wait a few minutes to make sure nothing appears to take the
place of items I've removed from To-Do. I also make sure to check
(via View Recording History) if there are programs that would have
been scheduled but were not because the now-removed-from-To-Do
items hadn't been removed yet. What I forget to do is check WishLists
that auto-record. Actually, it's not so much forgetting as realizing that
checking all auto-record WLs is way too time-consuming.


The
things that conflicted with the scheduled items (that you
deleted from the To-Do List) take time to actually appear
in the To-Do list themselves, but the space they need may
be calculated and reserved earlier. It's not exactly clear
when free space is calculated, and such may not even occur
at easily calculated intervals. (Sometimes it may occur
immediately, other times hours later.)
Presumably, worst case space requirements are calculated quickly, eg after a new
recording is specified. Otherwise, Tivo could end up having to delete a
recording early, without any warning. But, in the case of space being freed up,
I wouldn't be surprised if it happens at a later time.

I have actually seen items in the Recording History deleted with an
message that states something to the effect of "was deleted earlier
than expected at xx:yy," where yy is an oddball time that has nothing
to do with the start time of a recording -- for example, 11:17am.
Even with VBR turned off on my standalone, the calculations are
apparently not perfect. This has only happened when my drives
were very full.


To be clear, do you have a lot of SUID items as Season
Passes? By this, I mean are they set to record as green-dot
SUID items in the Season Pass settings?
Quite a few. I've been reducing the number as much as possible,
without putting "critical" recordings at risk.

I've warned people not to use this feature a lot in their SP
and ARWL settings. With 12 days in advance of guide data,
too much space gets reserved "forever" in TiVo's eyes.


Do you manually
change your SUID items after they record or do they record
that way, iow? I understand that you have a lot of SUID
items in Now Playing, but that's not what I'm asking here.
I sometimes change from SUID to a specific time period, or when disk space is
needed. But this is rare. More likely, I go the other way; eg I start
watching a recording & stop in the middle; since I definitely don't want this
deleted, I'll set it to SUID.

You actually answered my question above and split my words
into two blocks. I was being a bit redundant in my questioning,
which was intended to determine whether most of your SUID
items in Now Playing are a result of you changing them to SUID
or a result of the *SP or ARWL themselves* set as SUID. I
recommend changing the Save Until to a further date vs. SUID
unless you find yourself extending save times on many items
frequently, which is tedious. More important is to strictly limit
SUID use in the SP/ARWL themselves, however.


Finally, the program you wanted to record that caused all
these problems was a football game. That is undoubtedly
aired by DirecTV with an extremely high bit rate, which
takes up more drive space. Perhaps the game is coded as
a high bitrate item somehow by TiVo, so it reserves a lot
of space for it before it even starts.
I'm out of ideas now.
You've come up with enough ideas. Thanks! Now, if you have any
ideas how to speed the thing up ... :)

Besides reducing the number of SPs and ARWLs, there's not
much you can do. They didn't expect people to have such
large drives, so they are a bit underpowered as a result. (More
drive space allows you to make many many SPs/ARWLs and
still have the system useable; with a 30-60 GB system as
designed, having 100-300+ such items would be a nightmare.)

"Bao H. Lammy" wrote:

Also, you say you cleared the To-Do list "for that period."
After you clear those items, other items may try to record
(and therefore have space reserved for them as well).
Theoretically, but not likely in these specific cases, since it would require a
schedule change for the next 24 hours (plus a few minutes, since the recording
period hasn't quite yet started). Otherwise, presumably, there's no way
anything I specified should result in a surprise new recording. Tivo may decide
to record something to fill available disk space, except it doesn't think there
is any, and this would be deleted when space is needed anyway. Is there any
other way for Tivo to try an unexpected (ie not on the ToDo) recording?

WishLists. This happens to me quite often, in fact. I clear my To-Do
List and wait a few minutes to make sure nothing appears to take the
place of items I've removed from To-Do. I also make sure to check
(via View Recording History) if there are programs that would have
been scheduled but were not because the now-removed-from-To-Do
items hadn't been removed yet. What I forget to do is check WishLists
that auto-record. Actually, it's not so much forgetting as realizing that
checking all auto-record WLs is way too time-consuming.

Why would a Wishlist suddenly add a new recording? Is it re-specifying the same
recording just deleted, either because it's confused, or it meets a different
wishlist's criteria? Or another thought ... would a Wishlist recording not be
added to the ToDo list because of lack of diskspace, then added when disk is
freed up? This not only would explain those surprise recordings being added,
but why a delete can be so slow.


The
things that conflicted with the scheduled items (that you
deleted from the To-Do List) take time to actually appear
in the To-Do list themselves, but the space they need may
be calculated and reserved earlier. It's not exactly clear
when free space is calculated, and such may not even occur
at easily calculated intervals. (Sometimes it may occur
immediately, other times hours later.)
Presumably, worst case space requirements are calculated quickly, eg after a new
recording is specified. Otherwise, Tivo could end up having to delete a
recording early, without any warning. But, in the case of space being freed up,
I wouldn't be surprised if it happens at a later time.

I have actually seen items in the Recording History deleted with an
message that states something to the effect of "was deleted earlier
than expected at xx:yy," where yy is an oddball time that has nothing
to do with the start time of a recording -- for example, 11:17am.
Even with VBR turned off on my standalone, the calculations are
apparently not perfect. This has only happened when my drives
were very full.

Have you ever seen it delete an SUID item this way?


To be clear, do you have a lot of SUID items as Season
Passes? By this, I mean are they set to record as green-dot
SUID items in the Season Pass settings?
Quite a few. I've been reducing the number as much as possible,
without putting "critical" recordings at risk.

I've warned people not to use this feature a lot in their SP
and ARWL settings. With 12 days in advance of guide data,
too much space gets reserved "forever" in TiVo's eyes.


Do you manually
change your SUID items after they record or do they record
that way, iow? I understand that you have a lot of SUID
items in Now Playing, but that's not what I'm asking here.
I sometimes change from SUID to a specific time period, or when disk space is
needed. But this is rare. More likely, I go the other way; eg I start
watching a recording & stop in the middle; since I definitely don't want this
deleted, I'll set it to SUID.

You actually answered my question above and split my words
into two blocks. I was being a bit redundant in my questioning,
which was intended to determine whether most of your SUID
items in Now Playing are a result of you changing them to SUID
or a result of the *SP or ARWL themselves* set as SUID. I
recommend changing the Save Until to a further date vs. SUID
unless you find yourself extending save times on many items
frequently, which is tedious. More important is to strictly limit
SUID use in the SP/ARWL themselves, however.

I've been trying to use the Save Until date approach. But it is becoming
tedious, since it's so slow. Also, there are some recordings that I don't want
to risk getting deleted ... eg a great recording I'm almost done watching. And
should I go on vacation, I could miss the rescheduling ... of course in that
case I might really run out of diskspace.


Thanks for your help. I like understanding the issues!

================================================== =====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail:
================================================== =====

"Bao H. Lammy" wrote:

Also, you say you cleared the To-Do list "for that period."
After you clear those items, other items may try to record
(and therefore have space reserved for them as well).
Theoretically, but not likely in these specific cases, since it would require a
schedule change for the next 24 hours (plus a few minutes, since the recording
period hasn't quite yet started). Otherwise, presumably, there's no way
anything I specified should result in a surprise new recording. Tivo may decide
to record something to fill available disk space, except it doesn't think there
is any, and this would be deleted when space is needed anyway. Is there any
other way for Tivo to try an unexpected (ie not on the ToDo) recording?

WishLists. This happens to me quite often, in fact. I clear my To-Do
List and wait a few minutes to make sure nothing appears to take the
place of items I've removed from To-Do. I also make sure to check
(via View Recording History) if there are programs that would have
been scheduled but were not because the now-removed-from-To-Do
items hadn't been removed yet. What I forget to do is check WishLists
that auto-record. Actually, it's not so much forgetting as realizing that
checking all auto-record WLs is way too time-consuming.

Why would a Wishlist suddenly add a new recording? Is it re-specifying the same
recording just deleted, either because it's confused, or it meets a different
wishlist's criteria? Or another thought ... would a Wishlist recording not be
added to the ToDo list because of lack of diskspace, then added when disk is
freed up? This not only would explain those surprise recordings being added,
but why a delete can be so slow.


The
things that conflicted with the scheduled items (that you
deleted from the To-Do List) take time to actually appear
in the To-Do list themselves, but the space they need may
be calculated and reserved earlier. It's not exactly clear
when free space is calculated, and such may not even occur
at easily calculated intervals. (Sometimes it may occur
immediately, other times hours later.)
Presumably, worst case space requirements are calculated quickly, eg after a new
recording is specified. Otherwise, Tivo could end up having to delete a
recording early, without any warning. But, in the case of space being freed up,
I wouldn't be surprised if it happens at a later time.

I have actually seen items in the Recording History deleted with an
message that states something to the effect of "was deleted earlier
than expected at xx:yy," where yy is an oddball time that has nothing
to do with the start time of a recording -- for example, 11:17am.
Even with VBR turned off on my standalone, the calculations are
apparently not perfect. This has only happened when my drives
were very full.

Have you ever seen it delete an SUID item this way?


To be clear, do you have a lot of SUID items as Season
Passes? By this, I mean are they set to record as green-dot
SUID items in the Season Pass settings?
Quite a few. I've been reducing the number as much as possible,
without putting "critical" recordings at risk.

I've warned people not to use this feature a lot in their SP
and ARWL settings. With 12 days in advance of guide data,
too much space gets reserved "forever" in TiVo's eyes.


Do you manually
change your SUID items after they record or do they record
that way, iow? I understand that you have a lot of SUID
items in Now Playing, but that's not what I'm asking here.
I sometimes change from SUID to a specific time period, or when disk space is
needed. But this is rare. More likely, I go the other way; eg I start
watching a recording & stop in the middle; since I definitely don't want this
deleted, I'll set it to SUID.

You actually answered my question above and split my words
into two blocks. I was being a bit redundant in my questioning,
which was intended to determine whether most of your SUID
items in Now Playing are a result of you changing them to SUID
or a result of the *SP or ARWL themselves* set as SUID. I
recommend changing the Save Until to a further date vs. SUID
unless you find yourself extending save times on many items
frequently, which is tedious. More important is to strictly limit
SUID use in the SP/ARWL themselves, however.

I've been trying to use the Save Until date approach. But it is becoming
tedious, since it's so slow. Also, there are some recordings that I don't want
to risk getting deleted ... eg a great recording I'm almost done watching. And
should I go on vacation, I could miss the rescheduling ... of course in that
case I might really run out of diskspace.


Thanks for your help. I like understanding the issues!

================================================== =====
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail:
================================================== =====

"David Morgenlender" wrote
Why would a Wishlist suddenly add a new recording? Is it re-specifying the same
recording just deleted, either because it's confused, or it meets a different
wishlist's criteria?

You're thinking too hard. A WishList might suddenly add a new
recording because you removed a conflicting (in terms of timeslot)
item from the To-Do List. Stuff that an auto-recording WishList
wants to record does not show up under View Recording History,
so it can be a little bit of a surprise when it appears after you trim
the To-Do list.


Or another thought ... would a Wishlist recording not be
added to the ToDo list because of lack of diskspace, then added when disk is
freed up? This not only would explain those surprise recordings being added,
but why a delete can be so slow.

I don't know about the last bit above, but yes, an auto-record WL
might not add items to To-Do because of lack of disk space. At
least that makes sense to me. I don't think it warns you of this like
a Season Pass does.


I have actually seen items in the Recording History deleted with an
message that states something to the effect of "was deleted earlier
than expected at xx:yy," where yy is an oddball time that has nothing
to do with the start time of a recording -- for example, 11:17am.
Even with VBR turned off on my standalone, the calculations are
apparently not perfect. This has only happened when my drives
were very full.
Have you ever seen it delete an SUID item this way?

No. SUID items have never been removed without my consent
for any reason whatsoever.


I've been trying to use the Save Until date approach. But it is becoming
tedious, since it's so slow.

Yes, very tedious. I wish you could highlight 20 recordings and
extend save times with one step vs. doing it individually.


Also, there are some recordings that I don't want
to risk getting deleted ... eg a great recording I'm almost done watching.
should I go on vacation, I could miss the rescheduling ... of course in that
case I might really run out of diskspace.

I understand. But I still recommend extending the Save Until date
to say, 2 weeks in the future at this point vs. SUID. If you are
almost done watching it, 2 weeks should be enough for you to
finish, right?


Thanks for your help. I like understanding the issues!

No problem! Good luck.

"David Morgenlender" wrote
Why would a Wishlist suddenly add a new recording? Is it re-specifying the same
recording just deleted, either because it's confused, or it meets a different
wishlist's criteria?

You're thinking too hard. A WishList might suddenly add a new
recording because you removed a conflicting (in terms of timeslot)
item from the To-Do List. Stuff that an auto-recording WishList
wants to record does not show up under View Recording History,
so it can be a little bit of a surprise when it appears after you trim
the To-Do list.


Or another thought ... would a Wishlist recording not be
added to the ToDo list because of lack of diskspace, then added when disk is
freed up? This not only would explain those surprise recordings being added,
but why a delete can be so slow.

I don't know about the last bit above, but yes, an auto-record WL
might not add items to To-Do because of lack of disk space. At
least that makes sense to me. I don't think it warns you of this like
a Season Pass does.


I have actually seen items in the Recording History deleted with an
message that states something to the effect of "was deleted earlier
than expected at xx:yy," where yy is an oddball time that has nothing
to do with the start time of a recording -- for example, 11:17am.
Even with VBR turned off on my standalone, the calculations are
apparently not perfect. This has only happened when my drives
were very full.
Have you ever seen it delete an SUID item this way?

No. SUID items have never been removed without my consent
for any reason whatsoever.


I've been trying to use the Save Until date approach. But it is becoming
tedious, since it's so slow.

Yes, very tedious. I wish you could highlight 20 recordings and
extend save times with one step vs. doing it individually.


Also, there are some recordings that I don't want
to risk getting deleted ... eg a great recording I'm almost done watching.
should I go on vacation, I could miss the rescheduling ... of course in that
case I might really run out of diskspace.

I understand. But I still recommend extending the Save Until date
to say, 2 weeks in the future at this point vs. SUID. If you are
almost done watching it, 2 weeks should be enough for you to
finish, right?


Thanks for your help. I like understanding the issues!

No problem! Good luck.

"Bao H. Lammy" wrote
You're thinking too hard. A WishList might suddenly add a new
recording because you removed a conflicting (in terms of timeslot)
item from the To-Do List. Stuff that an auto-recording WishList
wants to record does not show up under View Recording History,
so it can be a little bit of a surprise when it appears after you trim
the To-Do list.

Actually, I'm not 100% sure about the last sentence above.
Auto-Record WishList items appear in To-Do. If you cancel
an ARWL item, it will appear in View Recording History. I
don't *think* that stuff an ARWL *wants to record but can't*
due to a timeslot conflict shows in View Recording History.
(That was what I meant above.)

Does anyone know for sure? I'm not close to my machine.

"Bao H. Lammy" wrote
You're thinking too hard. A WishList might suddenly add a new
recording because you removed a conflicting (in terms of timeslot)
item from the To-Do List. Stuff that an auto-recording WishList
wants to record does not show up under View Recording History,
so it can be a little bit of a surprise when it appears after you trim
the To-Do list.

Actually, I'm not 100% sure about the last sentence above.
Auto-Record WishList items appear in To-Do. If you cancel
an ARWL item, it will appear in View Recording History. I
don't *think* that stuff an ARWL *wants to record but can't*
due to a timeslot conflict shows in View Recording History.
(That was what I meant above.)

Does anyone know for sure? I'm not close to my machine.

"Jeff Rife" wrote
don't *think* that stuff an ARWL *wants to record but can't*
due to a timeslot conflict shows in View Recording History.
It does not appear there.
I have an ARWL for "DOG SHOW", and I often don't get the first showing of
one on Animal Planet since they are 3 hours long and start at 8pm. But,
the rerun later the next morning records fine, and there is nothing in
recording history about not being able to record something due to a
conflict.

Thanks. I guess my original suspicion was correct after all.