Lenroc shaped the electrons to say:
Yes, that indicates the limitations of Tivo Basic: You can only do manual
recordings by Time/Date, or choose a program in the Program Guide (only 3
days of data...) to record. Heh. Well, I guess it's better than nothing ;)

They also have VCR Plus+ - like many VCRs, so you can enter those
codes from TV Guide, etc.

Most of the navigation shortcuts are gone too, and I think I remember
hearing that 30 second skip and the clock (SPS codes) don't work in
TiVo Basic. It is really, well, Basic. ;-)

I seriously love the idea here, but $1200 for the cheapest unit, not

I've seen reports of people finding the 810H for ~$600, which isn't so
bad for a TiVO + DVD-RW.

I agree the MSRP is way too high - but it'll be forced down by the
market, I'm sure.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
URL:http://www.megazone.org/ URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/ Eris

Eric J. Holtman ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
The whole point of a business is to make money. They
make money by selling you a service, that you want, at
a price that is more than what it costs them to produce.

Then explain TiVo Basic.

It doesn't matter what it costs Tivo, whether it costs
them $.01/month/person, or $12.90/month/person.

Actually, it does. TiVo Basic costs them the same to support as the
full version, and (like I said, maybe even more). Unless people subscribe,
there is only one place TiVo can get the money to pay for that, and
if it isn't built into the price of the original box, it's from *other*
subscriptions.

Thus, "regular" TiVo users are subsidizing TiVo Basic users.

For example.... it certainly doesn't cost Warner Brothers
$15 to burn a DVD, but that's what they charge.

Oh, what an idiot.

It does, however, cost Warner Brothers a lot of money to *make* the
movie on the DVD, which is part of the cost.

As far as Tivo Basic vs. Tivo Plus, read up on a
marketing concept called "loss leader". It's not a
new concept, at all.

It is for TiVo. They started by subsidizing the hardware, but have now
gotten out of it because they realized they cannot make money that way.

If they are losing money on TiVo Basic, then I will have to adjust my
thinking about TiVo being around for the long term.

--
Jeff Rife |
301-916-8131 | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Dilbert/SalesToFriends.gif

Bao H. Lammy ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
Maybe, just maybe, TiVo is providing TiVo Basic at next to no
cost (or no cost at all) to companies like Pioneer just to get their
foot in the living rooms of customers,

This would be the dumbest thing they have ever done, then, because those
TiVo/DVD boxes *will* drop in price (or become "not the latest thing")
and there will be *lots* of people who end up using them as nothing but
a DVR with TiVo Basic. That's a lot of long-term cost that TiVo is willing
to absorb in the hopes that people upgrade.

and that's why they have to
charge full price for an upgrade to full TiVo service.

I don't see that TiVo would be willing to start subsidizing hardware
again.

--
Jeff Rife |
301-916-8131 | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Dilbert/Evaluation.jpg

Jeff Rife wrote in
:

Eric J. Holtman ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
The whole point of a business is to make money. They
make money by selling you a service, that you want, at
a price that is more than what it costs them to produce.

Then explain TiVo Basic.


I just did, below.... it's a loss leader.


Thus, "regular" TiVo users are subsidizing TiVo Basic users.


That's the definition of a loss leader.


It does, however, cost Warner Brothers a lot of money to *make* the
movie on the DVD, which is part of the cost.


As are marketing costs, like, say.... "loss leaders".


If they are losing money on TiVo Basic, then I will have to adjust my
thinking about TiVo being around for the long term.


Indeed.... it might mean they're wising up on
how to market.....

It's like peddling drugs to kindergartners....
"First taste is free".



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If you trying to say that you pay for the sfw by paying for the service that
is just wrong.

SFW is SFW not a Service.

When I pay for Windows I pay for the sfw. Now if I want Tech support that is
service. If I want software updates that is a service. But charging you for
the rest of your life for sfw you already have on your machine is not
correct. It is a scammy way of making people pay more for something over a
long run then they would up front.

Tivo service is plain out wrong. VHS machines don't charge you to use them
do they. VHS has sfw (firmware) and media. Why does a tivo box expecially a
dtivo need to charge a service fee for other than to make their shareholders
happy.


"Stephen Tu" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:14:09 -0700, in article
, "Ted"
wrote:


Well in this case is TIVO really providing any 'service'? Since he tells
it
when to record, the hardware does the job.. what service does he have to
pay
for?

The software to tell the hardware how to work. If they just sold you
the same box with a blank hard drive, that would be pretty worthless to
you wouldn't it? I certainly wouldn't have the time to write the
software to operate the box; I'm happy to pay Tivo $300 to have them do
it for me.

Tivo essentially chose to sell the software separately from the
hardware, unlike say ReplayTV who bundled it with the machine (& then
unbundled it, finally now rebundling it again). Preloading the software
on the box & just requiring activation rather than a download is just a
convenience for you, not an indication that they are willing to give it
to you for free.

It's quite prominently displayed on the box that a series 2 needs the
service in order to function.
--
Stephen Tu

In the case of Dtivo the guide is free..

"Stephen Tu" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:17:10 -0700, in article
, "Ted"
wrote:


Or replay tv, or something else that doesn't try and sell a supposide
service with the hardware you bought. Or wait 5 years and no one will try
to
resell you a service they get for free... like giving you program data
that
they just recieve from the networks.

With Tivo you currently pay $199 for a 40 hr box, and $299 for lifetime
service for the box. $498 total.

With ReplayTV you pay $499 and get free service for 3 years, $1/month
after that. What exactly is the gain here?

Software development costs aren't free! Guide data isn't free either,
they have to pay Tribune Media services for it. The networks aren't
giving them free databases containing the programming schedules for
every local affiliate.
--
Stephen Tu

You sound like a person who is lead to believe what ever someone tells you
to believe and doesn't complain about anything. Your wife will sleep
around... don't complain thats how it is.... type.


Why doesn't tivo just charge a plain fee for the hardware and sfw? For the
same reason car manf are offering 0 APR. Because the public doesn't like
high figures up front. If they charge a little over a long time then they
can make more money from you.... Plain and simple. And the public goes along
with it. Just like this guy.




"David G." wrote in message
...
Ken wrote:
*Rant on*

Ok, well my credit card was over its limit, so I canceled it and let
TiVo expire for a while. I understood that I would no longer get the
channel guide, and season passes would cease to work. However, what
happened is beyond unacceptable and as such I will never resubscribe
to TiVo.

Now, when I flip through channels, I get the message that my
subscription expired in the box that normally has the program's info.
I can not minimize the box to show only the channel like I could
before my subscription expired.

If it was just that, I could live with it. BUT, here's what really
gets me. I can't set up TiVo to record by time slot! I had read posts
saying you could do this with an expired unit, so maybe this is a
"new" feature. When I go to Pick Programs to Record - Record by Time
or Channel I get a message screen saying that my TiVo service is
Suspended. Wha?? I payed for the box, I should still be able to record
something if I set up the time.

*Rant off*

Tivo _is_ the service. You're just one of those people that gets all
worked up over nothing. You should be more concerned about your blood
pressure than your Tivo monthly fee that saves you more that the fee
itself in terms of time saved watching commercials and fighting your vcr
and it's lack of recording capacity. Just pay it and quit your rants.

--
David G.

While strolling through alt.video.ptv.tivo, Ted was overheard plotting:

SFW is SFW not a Service.

I guess you'll be switching to Linux then?

Before long the OS your currently using will be just that so I suggest
getting used to it or finding a new arguement.

--
David

"Ted" wrote
[snip]
Why doesn't tivo just charge a plain fee for the hardware and sfw? For the
same reason car manf are offering 0 APR. Because the public doesn't like
high figures up front. If they charge a little over a long time then they
can make more money from you.... Plain and simple. And the public goes along
with it. Just like this guy.

As Citizen Ed posted, they do offer a one-time fee for the software
and service. DirecTiVo doesn't, but that's up to DirecTV. DirecTiVo
users are not TiVo customers, but DirecTV customers, so DirecTV
can decide how they want to price TiVo for their DirecTiVo clients.

"Ted" wrote
If you trying to say that you pay for the sfw by paying for the service that
is just wrong.

Yes, it's wrong -- read on.


SFW is SFW not a Service.

TiVo is not software or service, but both. Without software, the box
would not boot to anything. I'm not talking about software upgrades,
either. Software -- period. Without service, TiVo gets no guide data,
no phone # to call (as bandwidth costs money), no one to monitor
to tweak lineup data, no one to keep track of what
new channels are being added and removed to the thousands of
lineups around the country, etc.


When I pay for Windows I pay for the sfw. Now if I want Tech support that is
service. If I want software updates that is a service. But charging you for
the rest of your life for sfw you already have on your machine is not
correct. It is a scammy way of making people pay more for something over a
long run then they would up front.

Yes. If you don't like it, don't buy into it. And TiVo does have a one-
time fee as I mentioned before. It's just that not everyone wants to use
that option.


Tivo service is plain out wrong. VHS machines don't charge you to use them
do they. VHS has sfw (firmware) and media. Why does a tivo box expecially a
dtivo need to charge a service fee for other than to make their shareholders
happy.

See above, and comparing VCR firmware to TiVo's UI software is
a joke. TiVo's UI is dynamic and much more complex than a VCR's
"smarts." You might as well be comparing TiVo UI software to the
code that runs a digital kitchen timer. "Wah wah wah...I don't have
to pay a service fee for the software that runs my egg timer. Wah wah."