On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:51:14 -0500, Jeff Rife wrote:

I couldn't find the info on the TiVo site, so:

http://www.tivo.com/1.1.3.asp

(Also, http://www.pioneerburner.com is the one you want for the DVD-R
Tivos in general, though I couldn't find the pricing info there.)

Is the cost of "TiVo Plus" (i.e., regular TiVo for the rest of us)
cheaper than normal, since you've already paid for some of the
subscription in the price of the unit?

From the above page:

[paste]
TiVo Plus(TM) service: Subscribe to the TiVo Plus service and enjoy smart,
automatic-recording features like Search by Title, Season Pass(TM) and
WishList(TM) so you never miss your favorite shows! It's just a different
name for the same TiVo service existing subscribers know and love today.
TiVo Plus service is available for an affordable $12.95/month or a
one-time fee of $299 for product lifetime service. [/paste]

Yes, that indicates the limitations of Tivo Basic: You can only do manual
recordings by Time/Date, or choose a program in the Program Guide (only 3
days of data...) to record. Heh. Well, I guess it's better than nothing ;)

I seriously love the idea here, but $1200 for the cheapest unit, not
including the subscription that I would want (and the HMO that would make
it worthwhile) is a bit steep.

Oh well, I guess that's why I don't have one ;)

--
Lenroc

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:14:09 -0700, Ted wrote:

Well in this case is TIVO really providing any 'service'? Since he tells
it when to record, the hardware does the job.. what service does he have
to pay for?

Satellite is different. Service content is always provided through
broadcasting the signal. The hardware is not as important as the stream it
is feed.

You are "correct" in that the Box in this case should be smart enough to
function without service, unlike a cell phone, satellite tuner, etc.

It doesn't _need_ any outside contact to function.

_BUT_: It _does_ need a subscription to function, because that is how Tivo
decided to make their money. It needs a subscription because Tivo wants to
get in on that "the service is more important than the box" revenue
stream, and therefore _made_ the box not work without service.

So technically, you're right. The Tivo _shouldn't_ need service.

But it does.

It would be a problem if it was advertised otherwise, but I've never seen
a Tivo advertised that didn't tell you it needed service to function.

--
Lenroc

"Lenroc" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:51:14 -0500, Jeff Rife wrote:

Yes, that indicates the limitations of Tivo Basic: You can only do manual
recordings by Time/Date, or choose a program in the Program Guide (only 3
days of data...) to record. Heh. Well, I guess it's better than nothing ;)

I seriously love the idea here, but $1200 for the cheapest unit, not
including the subscription that I would want (and the HMO that would make
it worthwhile) is a bit steep.

Recent street prices are about $750, not 1200, which makes it a lot more
reasonable. Plus the ability to burn DVD's.

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:36:09 -0500, George Eberhardt wrote:

Recent street prices are about $750, not 1200, which makes it a lot more
reasonable. Plus the ability to burn DVD's.

Hmm... it strikes me as odd that Tivo is pimiping pioneerburner.com
as _the_ source for DVD Burner information if the prices on that site vary
so greatly from the actual street prices.

I guess what it comes down to is I'm not accustomed to seeing MSRPs listed
anymore... more like Estimated (or actual) Street Prices.

It is the information age, after all ;)

--
Lenroc

Lenroc ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
[paste]
TiVo Plus(TM) service: Subscribe to the TiVo Plus service and enjoy smart,
automatic-recording features like Search by Title, Season Pass(TM) and
WishList(TM) so you never miss your favorite shows! It's just a different
name for the same TiVo service existing subscribers know and love today.
TiVo Plus service is available for an affordable $12.95/month or a
one-time fee of $299 for product lifetime service. [/paste]

So, basically, although the "TiVo Basic" subscription costs TiVo exactly
as much to maintain as "TiVo Plus" (or maybe more, if the dial-in is more
frequent because of the much shorter guide data), and you pay for it up
front in the retail price of the unit, but then you have to pay *exactly*
the same to upgrade to "TiVo Plus".

That bites, to put it mildly.

This is the first time that I really feel that TiVo service cost is a
complete rip-off.

--
Jeff Rife | "Ho! Ha, ha! Guard! Turn! Parry!
301-916-8131 | Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!"
|
| -- Daffy Duck, "Robin Hood Daffy"

"Jeff Rife" wrote
So, basically, although the "TiVo Basic" subscription costs TiVo exactly
as much to maintain as "TiVo Plus" (or maybe more, if the dial-in is more
frequent because of the much shorter guide data), and you pay for it up
front in the retail price of the unit, but then you have to pay *exactly*
the same to upgrade to "TiVo Plus".
That bites, to put it mildly.

That's what I said months ago when TiVo Basic was announced.
I thought the customer is paying something extra at retail when
buying a device with TiVo Basic in it (vs. no TiVo at all). None of
that is credited if and when the customer decides s/he wants full
TiVo service.


This is the first time that I really feel that TiVo service cost is a
complete rip-off.

Maybe, just maybe, TiVo is providing TiVo Basic at next to no
cost (or no cost at all) to companies like Pioneer just to get their
foot in the living rooms of customers, and that's why they have to
charge full price for an upgrade to full TiVo service.

Jeff Rife wrote in
:


So, basically, although the "TiVo Basic" subscription costs TiVo
exactly as much to maintain as "TiVo Plus" (or maybe more, if the
dial-in is more frequent because of the much shorter guide data), and
you pay for it up front in the retail price of the unit, but then you
have to pay *exactly* the same to upgrade to "TiVo Plus".

That bites, to put it mildly.


Huh??????

The whole point of a business is to make money. They
make money by selling you a service, that you want, at
a price that is more than what it costs them to produce.

If you don't want Tivo Plus, fine. Don't buy it.

If you *do* want Tivo Plus, fine. Buy it.

It doesn't matter what it costs Tivo, whether it costs
them $.01/month/person, or $12.90/month/person. What
matters is.... what can they convince *you* to pay.

For example.... it certainly doesn't cost Warner Brothers
$15 to burn a DVD, but that's what they charge.

Why? Because they can.

As far as Tivo Basic vs. Tivo Plus, read up on a
marketing concept called "loss leader". It's not a
new concept, at all.


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Ken wrote:
*Rant on*

Ok, well my credit card was over its limit, so I canceled it and let
TiVo expire for a while. I understood that I would no longer get the
channel guide, and season passes would cease to work. However, what
happened is beyond unacceptable and as such I will never resubscribe
to TiVo.

Now, when I flip through channels, I get the message that my
subscription expired in the box that normally has the program's info.
I can not minimize the box to show only the channel like I could
before my subscription expired.

If it was just that, I could live with it. BUT, here's what really
gets me. I can't set up TiVo to record by time slot! I had read posts
saying you could do this with an expired unit, so maybe this is a
"new" feature. When I go to Pick Programs to Record - Record by Time
or Channel I get a message screen saying that my TiVo service is
Suspended. Wha?? I payed for the box, I should still be able to record
something if I set up the time.

*Rant off*

Tivo _is_ the service. You're just one of those people that gets all
worked up over nothing. You should be more concerned about your blood
pressure than your Tivo monthly fee that saves you more that the fee
itself in terms of time saved watching commercials and fighting your vcr
and it's lack of recording capacity. Just pay it and quit your rants.

--
David G.

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:14:09 -0700, in article
, "Ted"
wrote:


Well in this case is TIVO really providing any 'service'? Since he tells it
when to record, the hardware does the job.. what service does he have to pay
for?

The software to tell the hardware how to work. If they just sold you
the same box with a blank hard drive, that would be pretty worthless to
you wouldn't it? I certainly wouldn't have the time to write the
software to operate the box; I'm happy to pay Tivo $300 to have them do
it for me.

Tivo essentially chose to sell the software separately from the
hardware, unlike say ReplayTV who bundled it with the machine (& then
unbundled it, finally now rebundling it again). Preloading the software
on the box & just requiring activation rather than a download is just a
convenience for you, not an indication that they are willing to give it
to you for free.

It's quite prominently displayed on the box that a series 2 needs the
service in order to function.
--
Stephen Tu

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:17:10 -0700, in article
, "Ted"
wrote:


Or replay tv, or something else that doesn't try and sell a supposide
service with the hardware you bought. Or wait 5 years and no one will try to
resell you a service they get for free... like giving you program data that
they just recieve from the networks.

With Tivo you currently pay $199 for a 40 hr box, and $299 for lifetime
service for the box. $498 total.

With ReplayTV you pay $499 and get free service for 3 years, $1/month
after that. What exactly is the gain here?

Software development costs aren't free! Guide data isn't free either,
they have to pay Tribune Media services for it. The networks aren't
giving them free databases containing the programming schedules for
every local affiliate.
--
Stephen Tu