SINNER wrote:
* Stephen Harris Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo, on Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:16:58 -0400:

The line is blured; most consumer electronics only going into "standby"
these days, especially "home theater" stuff; TVs, VCRs, DVD players, CD

There is a BIG difference, all Standby does on the devices you mention

Well, to you and me there is. I fully understand the distinction. But
I'd bet my Dad doesn't. I bet most consumers don't. Yet, by strict
definition, the other devices aren't "off", and the vendors don't say
they are. However, general usage does use the word "off" for this.

above is allow the remote to "wake it up" nothing else is going on and
infact the electricity is at a trickle at that point. I would bet that

Well, other switches can also wake it up (eg eject button, inserting
tape into VCR slot, scheduled program), but yes, power usage is a lot
less. Manuals normally list this.

there is no difference in electrical output on a Tivo in standby as

A standalone TiVo, perhaps. Not so for a DirecTiVo. The receivers draw
a lot of power and generate a lot of heat (potentially more than the
hard disk). And an UltimateTV is a lot cooler in standby mode (indeed,
a UTV box is a lot closer to "off"; I think it even spins down the hard
disk, but I'm not sure).

"Off" is thus a sloppy use words, these days. A PVR is pushing that
sloppiness to an extreme, but it's still within the scope of current
usage.

I still tend to disagree, I would quiker say that use of Standby when
describing the state Tivo is in when not showing a picture is the sloppy
use word rather then vice-versa.

The sloppiness is in general usage; a typical end consumer with little
knowledge of electronics will call all of them "off" just because the
front lights have turned off and the box _seems_ to be off. If I tried
to explain the difference between "standby" and "off" to my Dad with
respect to a TiVo, he'd just assume I was being unnecessarily pedantic.
He knows that all devices draw power these days when "off" (the VCR has
a clock, the TV has a red LED etc). Really, that's all this discussion
is; pedantry to no use. A way to waste 10 minutes, but not much more.

--
Stephen Harris

The truth is the truth, and opinion just opinion. But what is what?
My employer pays to ignore my opinions; you get to do it for free.

Bao H. Lammy wrote:
Yes, it doesn't spin down the drives. But stopping writing means no
more heads seeking from one track to another. There's certainly wear
involved in that.

Why won't the heads move? TiVo does a lot more in the
background than just record the buffer. If your combo box
is put into Standby mode, it may stop writing the buffer,
but it may be doing other things that require hard drive activity.

Come on guys, do you have to be quite so literal?

Yes, the Tivo or DirecTivo still has houskeeping stuff to do while it is
in standby mode, but if the DirecTivo isn't writing the live tv buffer,
it means less activity to the disk, and thus less seeking.

--
Jon Biggar
Floorboard Software

(Stephen Harris) wrote:
A standalone TiVo, perhaps. Not so for a DirecTiVo. The receivers draw
a lot of power and generate a lot of heat (potentially more than the
hard disk). And an UltimateTV is a lot cooler in standby mode (indeed,
a UTV box is a lot closer to "off"; I think it even spins down the hard
disk, but I'm not sure).

UTV != DirecTiVo.

The DirecTiVos still keep the satellite tuners active in standby,
though they do stop recording the buffer. I haven't been able to
notice any temperature drop on my unit that can't be explained by time
of day, or nearby components.

Indeed, someone measured the power usage and found virtually no
difference for standby on a DTiVo:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...34%40sccrnsc03

--
script language=JScript// Scott Seligman
for(var i=0;i73;i++)document.write(String.fromCharCode((" lsYrsiwb7pir~~|=~fr"+
(i)-("P2Y*!$1E5#()2*-"+
(i)+32));/script

Bao H. Lammy ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
In the case of satellite and cable receivers, are they actually doing
something in Standby besides waiting for an IR command?

Yes, they are. How else do they have the guide available even though you
have not touched it for several days? For most DirecTV receivers, they
can even do a wishlist-like search for things, although they can't record
them automatically.

--
Jeff Rife |
301-916-8131 | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Zits/AttentiveIgnorer.jpg

"Jeff Rife" wrote
Bao H. Lammy ) wrote
In the case of satellite and cable receivers, are they actually doing
something in Standby besides waiting for an IR command?
Yes, they are. How else do they have the guide available even though you
have not touched it for several days?

I don't know; that's why I asked. I don't use satellite and I never
put my cable box into Standby mode. I do know that when I pull
the plug on the cable box that it freaks out when I plug it back in,
even if it is just for a second. It feverishly works at rebuilding
something or other in its UI, a UI I avoid if at all possible. As far
as I'm concerned, the thing is a piece of crap. (Motorola digital
cable box.)


For most DirecTV receivers, they
can even do a wishlist-like search for things, although they can't record
them automatically.

Thanks for the reply.

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:43:54 +0000, Jonathan Biggar wrote:
Yes, the Tivo or DirecTivo still has houskeeping stuff to do while it is
in standby mode, but if the DirecTivo isn't writing the live tv buffer, it
means less activity to the disk, and thus less seeking.

I think the point is that it does still write to the Live TV buffer, even
when in Standby mode.

Either way, recording scheduled (or unscheduled, recommended) shows when
in standby is a bit more than "housekeeping".

--
Lenroc

"Lenroc" wrote
On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:43:54 +0000, Jonathan Biggar wrote:
Yes, the Tivo or DirecTivo still has houskeeping stuff to do while it is
in standby mode, but if the DirecTivo isn't writing the live tv buffer, it
means less activity to the disk, and thus less seeking.
I think the point is that it does still write to the Live TV buffer, even
when in Standby mode.

Actually, most have observed that the DirecTiVo boxes stop
recording the buffer (but don't necessarily flush it) in Standby
mode. The standalones do not stop recording the buffer in
Standby; I have confirmed this.


Either way, recording scheduled (or unscheduled, recommended)
shows when in standby is a bit more than "housekeeping".

Yes, but he will still say that when it's not recording a TiVo Suggestion
or something you requested to record, it won't be recording the
buffer. Therefore, less hard drive head movement. Not much.
imo, not significantly less. But less -- yes.

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:58:19 -0500, Bao H. Lammy wrote:
Actually, most have observed that the DirecTiVo boxes stop recording the
buffer (but don't necessarily flush it) in Standby mode. The standalones
do not stop recording the buffer in Standby; I have confirmed this.

Ah. I didn't notice that DirecTivos differ from SAs in this way. Thanks
for clearing it up. Sorry to the OP for misleading ;)

--
Lenroc

Bao H. Lammy ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
I don't know; that's why I asked. I don't use satellite and I never
put my cable box into Standby mode.

OK. I guess I just assume that everyone at least sees each of the
different delivery systems every once in a while.

As far
as I'm concerned, the thing is a piece of crap. (Motorola digital
cable box.)

Satellite receivers are not models of the best UI and reliability, but
they seem to be so far beyond digital cable boxes that I really don't
understand where the design for the cable boxes came from.

--
Jeff Rife |
301-916-8131 | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/HighTech.gif

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:17:44 -0500, "Bao H. Lammy"
wrote:

wrote
I just replaced the 40g in my Hughes DirectTivo this week with a
Maxtor 120g that Bestbuy had on sale for $90. It was the 100g plus 20
gig free model. The spinning noise is the same level as the old 40g
HD. However, I can hear the heads accessing the drive when the TV is
off and it is in the bedroom. I looked on Maxtor's web page and it
implied the AMSET.EXE was not for my model of HD.

Don't believe what the web page implies or even what a tech
support operator may tell you. I've been through this with them.
The only way to find out is to run it with the drive attached to
your computer. Use AMSET /CHECK to see the current setting.
There typically are three: OFF/UNSUPPORTED (don't believe
the UNSUPPPORTED -- even coming from AMSET; that's
what /CHECK will report if the feature is turned off -- and the
other two are PERFORMANCE, which is somewhere between
OFF/UNSUPPORTED and the other setting (QUIET/ON, iirc)
in terms of noise and speed.


Will it work with a model: L01J100?

You'll just have to try.


I had a model L01P120 with the 8 meg cache on hand but did not use it
since it seemed a waste to put the 8 meg cache on the Tivo.

It is.


However, I
woke up at 6am this morning was could heard the new HD clicking away.
It is not really practical to try and move the Tivo to another room
however, I might try to find some type of encloser.

That's your best bet, probably.


I am 57 so my hearing has lost the high freqs. but I can easy hear the
heads clicking. Even if I put it in Standby it keeps clicking when
nothing is being recorded. I had this same problem with the stand
alone Tivo I just replaced. I could hear the HD clicking as it was
recording.

Standby doesn't do anything in terms of lowering power consumption
or hard drive wear. It just turns off the output of A/V from the output
jacks in the back of the machine. If you have a combo DirecTV-TiVo
box, some people have reported some sort of power savings, but it
certainly isn't significant.


I took out the original 40g so could clone it again with the DD option
with the other 120g if I was pretty sure it might be quieter.
Are you sure that AMSET.EXE will work with all models of the 120g
Maxtor HDs and will it work on the Lo1J100? Can I still run it even
thought it has been TIVOed??

You'll just have to try. It helps that you are "recloning" onto the drive
you want to use with AMSET vs. just expecting to be able to run
AMSET on a drive and put it back in the TiVo box. You might be
able to do that as well. Just try it out and make sure to make a backup
with MFS Tools 2. (Why are you running the DD command directly?)


Thanks for the feedback. As it turns out, I was out of town for 3
days, when I got home and checked the DirectTivo unit it was hung at
getting Sat update at 70%. I could hear the HD keep making a fairly
regular clicking noise. The unit was very unresponsive. I finally got
into the System Info screen and it shows my account was disabled.

I unplugged the unit 3 different times and each time it would get to
the 70% point and hang. I called DirecTV and confirmed my account was
in good standing. They suggested unplugging the Sat cables to try the
fix when it hangs at 28%. This allowed it to give me a message to wait
1 to 3 hours while it tried to do a repair by telephone.

I gave up, took out the 120g Maxtor and put back the original 40g that
I had put on the shelf. It booted right up and went pass the 70% maker
getting the update from the SAT without any problems. I tried to put
back in the 120g and it would hang at the 70% mark.

I then put the 120g in the computer and ran Maxtor's power tested. on
the Advance test, it said the drive failed with an error code Y30R03.

I had bought the drive on 9/1/03 at Bestbuy. Tonight on 10/1/03 I took
it back and they refunded my money. Barely made the 30 day return
period. I now think the drive may have been bad from the start.

The reason I cloned the drive was my wife had some programs recorded I
did not want to lost.

I have 2 other 120g Maxtor DiamonMax Plus with the 8 meg buffer. So I
am currently cloing the 40g again using this drive. I will know
tomorrow if it has as loud of a clicking noise.

one of the sales persons claims he runs a couple of servers and he has
had problems with the 2meg cache Maxtors failing running 24h/7. On my
Win2k computers that runs 24/7 I have 4 WD and 1 Maxtor 120g drives
that has been running now for 2 yrs without any failures. However,
they are not getting the constant access that DirectTivo is putting on
the drive. That was very easy to hear with the drive that failed.

Just thought you might like the feedback.

I did lose a bunch of programs that I had recorded between Friday
night and Wed night due to the drive failure. I had recorded several
movies off the free Starz weekend deal that my wife wanted.

My other stand alone Tivo original 30g HD is also about to quit after
about 2 yrs of steady use. That was one reason I jumped on the $99
deal for DirectTV and their Tivo. Looks like I need to set it up as a
backup until I know the replacement 120g is going to be able to take
the constant access that is required.

wrote
You'll just have to try. It helps that you are "recloning" onto the drive
you want to use with AMSET vs. just expecting to be able to run
AMSET on a drive and put it back in the TiVo box. You might be
able to do that as well. Just try it out and make sure to make a backup
with MFS Tools 2. (Why are you running the DD command directly?)

[snip]
The reason I cloned the drive was my wife had some programs recorded I
did not want to lost.

I've always done hard drive upgrades like this with TiVo. iow, I've
always wanted to keep all more recorded programs in the process.
What I meant was why you were running DD directly when the
preferred method (afaict from reading the Hinsdale FAQ is to use:

Swap File: When increasing your total recording capacity (A+B
drives) to over ~140GB (actual threshold number is likely just over
150GB for Series 1 Standalones and over 180GB for DirecTiVos
and Series 2 units) the preferable method for upgrade should include
a means to increase the swap file so that the built-in TiVo repair
utility (GSOD) can complete if ever triggered (rare). Those upgrading,
or planning on upgrading in the future, to these larger capacities should
consider using the Mfs Tools backup/restore options (-s 127
command line parameter increases the swap) outlined in Step 10 in
preference to using this dd copy method.


I have 2 other 120g Maxtor DiamonMax Plus with the 8 meg buffer. So I
am currently cloing the 40g again using this drive. I will know
tomorrow if it has as loud of a clicking noise.

I assume you mean *cloning* the 40GB drive. Anyway, this is the
time to run AMSET: before you clone the drive. iow, run AMSET
on the new drive *before* the cloning process -- just in case there
is a problem with running AMSET on a drive already set up for
TiVo. I don't know if there is a problem with that, but since you
are doing an upgrade, it makes sense to run AMSET beforehand.

Good luck!

"Robert B. Clark" wrote
I assume you mean *cloning* the 40GB drive. Anyway, this is the
time to run AMSET: before you clone the drive. iow, run AMSET
on the new drive *before* the cloning process -- just in case there
is a problem with running AMSET on a drive already set up for
TiVo. I don't know if there is a problem with that, but since you
are doing an upgrade, it makes sense to run AMSET beforehand.
FWIW, I once used the AMSET utility on a drive after I'd already cloned it.
After I'd cloned the drive and placed the TiVo back into the entertainment
center, I found the seek noise too distracting. I pulled the TiVo back out
and ran AMSET on the HDD.
There were no ill effects running AMSET post-cloning, and the reduction in
the noise was quite noticeable.

Thanks for the post! Now we know...

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:50:34 -0500, Robert B. Clark
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:04:46 -0500, "Bao H. Lammy"
wrote:

wrote

I have 2 other 120g Maxtor DiamonMax Plus with the 8 meg buffer. So I
am currently cloing the 40g again using this drive. I will know
tomorrow if it has as loud of a clicking noise.

I assume you mean *cloning* the 40GB drive. Anyway, this is the
time to run AMSET: before you clone the drive. iow, run AMSET
on the new drive *before* the cloning process -- just in case there
is a problem with running AMSET on a drive already set up for
TiVo. I don't know if there is a problem with that, but since you
are doing an upgrade, it makes sense to run AMSET beforehand.

FWIW, I once used the AMSET utility on a drive after I'd already cloned it.

After I'd cloned the drive and placed the TiVo back into the entertainment
center, I found the seek noise too distracting. I pulled the TiVo back out
and ran AMSET on the HDD.

There were no ill effects running AMSET post-cloning, and the reduction in
the noise was quite noticeable.

When I tried to run AMSET it seem to lockup with no response after I
typed the command. I got no response from typing the command at all.
It just set there.

The 8g Maxtor drive appears to be working OK but it is still making
more clicking noise than I want.

I bought a Seagate 120GB 7200rpm EIDE Hard Drive Barracuda 7200.7
ST3120026A at Bestbuy this weekend for $80 after rebates plus I had a
bonus that I get a $25 gift card. www.storagereview.com claims it is
the quietest drive on the market.

I plan to try it this weekend to see if in fact it is any quiet.
I have about 50 hours stored on the current Maxtor 120g drive that I
want to save. I currently do not want to put 2 drives in the unit
since I think that will just increase the noise even more. If the
Seagate is quiet enough, I might buy another one to upgrade to 240g.
Right now I think 107 hrs will be enough.

Thanks for all the tips.

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:04:46 -0500, "Bao H. Lammy"
wrote:

wrote
You'll just have to try. It helps that you are "recloning" onto the drive
you want to use with AMSET vs. just expecting to be able to run
AMSET on a drive and put it back in the TiVo box. You might be
able to do that as well. Just try it out and make sure to make a backup
with MFS Tools 2. (Why are you running the DD command directly?)

[snip]
The reason I cloned the drive was my wife had some programs recorded I
did not want to lost.

I've always done hard drive upgrades like this with TiVo. iow, I've
always wanted to keep all more recorded programs in the process.
What I meant was why you were running DD directly when the
preferred method (afaict from reading the Hinsdale FAQ is to use:

Swap File: When increasing your total recording capacity (A+B
drives) to over ~140GB (actual threshold number is likely just over
150GB for Series 1 Standalones and over 180GB for DirecTiVos
and Series 2 units) the preferable method for upgrade should include
a means to increase the swap file so that the built-in TiVo repair
utility (GSOD) can complete if ever triggered (rare). Those upgrading,
or planning on upgrading in the future, to these larger capacities should
consider using the Mfs Tools backup/restore options (-s 127
command line parameter increases the swap) outlined in Step 10 in
preference to using this dd copy method.

I have read the guide a bunch of times and I guess I still do not
understand the above method. How do you use the backup/restore if you
have about 40 hours stored on the current drive? I assume this means
you will have to have about 40g of free space to backup the image of
the current drive? This sounds like you have to have more big HDs? I
do have one more 120g Maxtor I could use.

What steps are required to reformat a HD that you take out of the Tivo
once you have use it? I will be wanting to wipe clean the current
Maxtor that I think is too noisy so I can use it in a normal computer.



I have 2 other 120g Maxtor DiamonMax Plus with the 8 meg buffer. So I
am currently cloing the 40g again using this drive. I will know
tomorrow if it has as loud of a clicking noise.

I assume you mean *cloning* the 40GB drive. Anyway, this is the
time to run AMSET: before you clone the drive. iow, run AMSET
on the new drive *before* the cloning process -- just in case there
is a problem with running AMSET on a drive already set up for
TiVo. I don't know if there is a problem with that, but since you
are doing an upgrade, it makes sense to run AMSET beforehand.

Good luck!

As I stated in my other message, when I tried to run AMSET on the new
Maxtor 8meg 120g it did not appear to work. I had booted to a DOS
prompt on my Win95 computer and had the AMSET on the HD in a folder.
When I tried to run it just dropped down one more line with nothing
happening. I had to turn off the computer to get back to a C:. Nothing
I tried such as CTRL ALT DEL would work. I tried it twice before I
gave up.

wrote
When I tried to run AMSET it seem to lockup with no response after I
typed the command. I got no response from typing the command at all.
It just set there.
[snip]

You have to make a bare boot disk and boot with it. You can't
run AMSET in a DOS window under Windows, nor can you
probably run it after "restarting in MSDOS mode." If you don't
feel like making one, try the boot disc that usually comes with
retail Maxtor drives. After the Maxtor program on it loads,
exit the utility. It will drop you back into Caldera DR-DOS,
which is sufficient for AMSET.

wrote
Swap File: When increasing your total recording capacity (A+B
drives) to over ~140GB (actual threshold number is likely just over
150GB for Series 1 Standalones and over 180GB for DirecTiVos
and Series 2 units) the preferable method for upgrade should include
a means to increase the swap file so that the built-in TiVo repair
utility (GSOD) can complete if ever triggered (rare). Those upgrading,
or planning on upgrading in the future, to these larger capacities should
consider using the Mfs Tools backup/restore options (-s 127
command line parameter increases the swap) outlined in Step 10 in
preference to using this dd copy method.
I have read the guide a bunch of times and I guess I still do not
understand the above method. How do you use the backup/restore if you
have about 40 hours stored on the current drive?

The backup/restore is simply for the TiVo software and your settings,
not your stored recordings. To tell you the truth, I never run the backup/
restore steps because I always shelve the puny factory TiVo hard drive
as a backup. The huge Hinsdale FAQ is useful, but the only command
I ever use from it is the mfsadd command line (under Step 10, iirc...)
This command *will* save your recordings and copy them to the new
drive(s). Trust me -- that's always been important to me as well.


I assume this means
you will have to have about 40g of free space to backup the image of
the current drive? This sounds like you have to have more big HDs? I
do have one more 120g Maxtor I could use.

Well, yes. This method requires at least one upgrade drive and that drive
has to be at least as big as your original one. Whether you want to add
a second drive is up to you. When I run it, I have four drives attached
to my PC: original TiVo drive and two new drives, which will become
my new TiVo A and B drives, and the fourth drive is the CD-ROM
drive, from which I boot MFS Tools. I don't have IDE hard drives in
my PC, but if I did, I would detach them for this process.


What steps are required to reformat a HD that you take out of the Tivo
once you have use it? I will be wanting to wipe clean the current
Maxtor that I think is too noisy so I can use it in a normal computer.

No special ones, to the best of my knowledge. If you want to be
old-school, FDISK then FORMAT. But I think you should be able
to format it directly from Windows whatever. Now, if you were
talking about an older TiVo factory drive, like a 13GB one, it may
be locked, in which case you would run QUNLOCK. If it's one
you've added yourself to the DVR, don't worry about it too much.


As I stated in my other message, when I tried to run AMSET on the new
Maxtor 8meg 120g it did not appear to work. I had booted to a DOS
prompt on my Win95 computer and had the AMSET on the HD in a folder.
When I tried to run it just dropped down one more line with nothing
happening. I had to turn off the computer to get back to a C:. Nothing
I tried such as CTRL ALT DEL would work. I tried it twice before I
gave up.

Are you just running AMSET or did you actually download and extract
it properly from the Maxtor website? (I certainly hope you didn't just
search for AMSET.EXE on KaZaA!!) When you download it from
Maxtor, you download a file called SETACM.EXE, which extracts
to AMSET.EXE as well as two additional files, one of which is needed
for AMSET.EXE to work. From the Maxtor web site:

* AMSET.EXE - Utility for changing Acoustic Management
on the DiamondMax VL 30, DiamondMax Plus 40 and
DiamondMax 60 UDMA/66 ,UDMA/100 and UDMA/133
hard drives. This utility will function with all future products as well.
* CHIPSET.DRV - Driver Database File
* AMSET.TXT - This file


NOTE: AMSET.EXE is a DOS-Based, command line utility.
It cannot be properly executed from a Windows 95/98/ME or
Windows NT/2000/XP environment.
PROCEDURE FOR USING AMSET.EXE:
1. Using a system boot diskette clean-boot the system to an A: prompt.
[snip]

Try this link for the full instructions:
http://maxtor.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m...p?p_faqid=1200

And finally:
Why doesn't the AMSET utility detect the hard drive?
If you are using a ATA adapter card the AMSET utility will not
detect the drive. You must remove the card from the computer
and run the AMSET utility.
This bug has been reported and will be fixed in the next release.

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:27:25 -0500, "Bao H. Lammy"
wrote:

wrote
What steps are required to reformat a HD that you take out of the Tivo
once you have use it? I will be wanting to wipe clean the current
Maxtor that I think is too noisy so I can use it in a normal computer.

No special ones, to the best of my knowledge. If you want to be
old-school, FDISK then FORMAT. But I think you should be able
to format it directly from Windows whatever. Now, if you were

You will need to repartition the drive as FAT, FAT32 or NTFS before you
format it. Windows will not recognize a TiVo MFS partition.
--
TiVo Series 2 60hr (upgraded to 310 hrs, 9 min)
Philips Series 1 HDR212 (upgraded to 67 hrs + TurboNet)
I watch too much TV, but no one cares except my wife.

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:27:25 -0500, "Bao H. Lammy"
wrote:

wrote
Swap File: When increasing your total recording capacity (A+B
drives) to over ~140GB (actual threshold number is likely just over
150GB for Series 1 Standalones and over 180GB for DirecTiVos
and Series 2 units) the preferable method for upgrade should include
a means to increase the swap file so that the built-in TiVo repair
utility (GSOD) can complete if ever triggered (rare). Those upgrading,
or planning on upgrading in the future, to these larger capacities should
consider using the Mfs Tools backup/restore options (-s 127
command line parameter increases the swap) outlined in Step 10 in
preference to using this dd copy method.
I have read the guide a bunch of times and I guess I still do not
understand the above method. How do you use the backup/restore if you
have about 40 hours stored on the current drive?

The backup/restore is simply for the TiVo software and your settings,
not your stored recordings. To tell you the truth, I never run the backup/
restore steps because I always shelve the puny factory TiVo hard drive
as a backup. The huge Hinsdale FAQ is useful, but the only command
I ever use from it is the mfsadd command line (under Step 10, iirc...)
This command *will* save your recordings and copy them to the new
drive(s). Trust me -- that's always been important to me as well.


I assume this means
you will have to have about 40g of free space to backup the image of
the current drive? This sounds like you have to have more big HDs? I
do have one more 120g Maxtor I could use.

Well, yes. This method requires at least one upgrade drive and that drive
has to be at least as big as your original one. Whether you want to add
a second drive is up to you. When I run it, I have four drives attached
to my PC: original TiVo drive and two new drives, which will become
my new TiVo A and B drives, and the fourth drive is the CD-ROM
drive, from which I boot MFS Tools. I don't have IDE hard drives in
my PC, but if I did, I would detach them for this process.


What steps are required to reformat a HD that you take out of the Tivo
once you have use it? I will be wanting to wipe clean the current
Maxtor that I think is too noisy so I can use it in a normal computer.

No special ones, to the best of my knowledge. If you want to be
old-school, FDISK then FORMAT. But I think you should be able
to format it directly from Windows whatever. Now, if you were
talking about an older TiVo factory drive, like a 13GB one, it may
be locked, in which case you would run QUNLOCK. If it's one
you've added yourself to the DVR, don't worry about it too much.


As I stated in my other message, when I tried to run AMSET on the new
Maxtor 8meg 120g it did not appear to work. I had booted to a DOS
prompt on my Win95 computer and had the AMSET on the HD in a folder.
When I tried to run it just dropped down one more line with nothing
happening. I had to turn off the computer to get back to a C:. Nothing
I tried such as CTRL ALT DEL would work. I tried it twice before I
gave up.

Are you just running AMSET or did you actually download and extract
it properly from the Maxtor website? (I certainly hope you didn't just
search for AMSET.EXE on KaZaA!!) When you download it from
Maxtor, you download a file called SETACM.EXE, which extracts
to AMSET.EXE as well as two additional files, one of which is needed
for AMSET.EXE to work. From the Maxtor web site:

* AMSET.EXE - Utility for changing Acoustic Management
on the DiamondMax VL 30, DiamondMax Plus 40 and
DiamondMax 60 UDMA/66 ,UDMA/100 and UDMA/133
hard drives. This utility will function with all future products as well.
* CHIPSET.DRV - Driver Database File
* AMSET.TXT - This file


NOTE: AMSET.EXE is a DOS-Based, command line utility.
It cannot be properly executed from a Windows 95/98/ME or
Windows NT/2000/XP environment.
PROCEDURE FOR USING AMSET.EXE:
1. Using a system boot diskette clean-boot the system to an A: prompt.
[snip]

Try this link for the full instructions:
http://maxtor.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m...p?p_faqid=1200

And finally:
Why doesn't the AMSET utility detect the hard drive?
If you are using a ATA adapter card the AMSET utility will not
detect the drive. You must remove the card from the computer
and run the AMSET utility.
This bug has been reported and will be fixed in the next release.


This last statement might have been my problem. I do have an extra PCI
adapter card Ultra IDE card to run 4 extra HDs besides the regular IDE
connectors in the computer I was using. I had extracted the required
files and booted into plain DOS, no DOS windows.

I may try it again before replacing it with the Seagate. However, if I
can get the drives quiet enough I will see about getting a kit to hold
both drives.

Again thanks for all the tips.

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:43:53 -0500, Robert B. Clark
wrote:

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:27:25 -0500, "Bao H. Lammy"
wrote:

wrote
What steps are required to reformat a HD that you take out of the Tivo
once you have use it? I will be wanting to wipe clean the current
Maxtor that I think is too noisy so I can use it in a normal computer.

No special ones, to the best of my knowledge. If you want to be
old-school, FDISK then FORMAT. But I think you should be able
to format it directly from Windows whatever. Now, if you were

You will need to repartition the drive as FAT, FAT32 or NTFS before you
format it. Windows will not recognize a TiVo MFS partition.

I normally use plain fdisk for all my drives.

I wondered if the Tivo partition was going to show up as a NON DOS
partition under fdisk and if Fdisk would delete it???

I seem to remember there being some issues if someone had tried to
load Linux on a drive getting it off. I just did not know if I needed
to use some special MFS command to remove the Tivo partition. I did
not remember reading anything about how to "clean" a Tivoed drive so
it would work again under DOS.

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 03:26:01 GMT, wrote:

I seem to remember there being some issues if someone had tried to
load Linux on a drive getting it off. I just did not know if I needed
to use some special MFS command to remove the Tivo partition. I did
not remember reading anything about how to "clean" a Tivoed drive so
it would work again under DOS.

No, just run FDISK followed by FORMAT. The point I was making was that you
cannot simply reformat the TiVo drive and go--you have to repartition
(FDISK) it first.
--
TiVo Series 2 60hr (upgraded to 310 hrs, 9 min)
Philips Series 1 HDR212 (upgraded to 67 hrs + TurboNet)
I watch too much TV, but no one cares except my wife.

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:27:25 -0500, "Bao H. Lammy"
wrote:

wrote

As I stated in my other message, when I tried to run AMSET on the new
Maxtor 8meg 120g it did not appear to work. I had booted to a DOS
prompt on my Win95 computer and had the AMSET on the HD in a folder.
When I tried to run it just dropped down one more line with nothing
happening. I had to turn off the computer to get back to a C:. Nothing
I tried such as CTRL ALT DEL would work. I tried it twice before I
gave up.

Are you just running AMSET or did you actually download and extract
it properly from the Maxtor website? (I certainly hope you didn't just
search for AMSET.EXE on KaZaA!!) When you download it from
Maxtor, you download a file called SETACM.EXE, which extracts
to AMSET.EXE as well as two additional files, one of which is needed
for AMSET.EXE to work. From the Maxtor web site:

* AMSET.EXE - Utility for changing Acoustic Management
on the DiamondMax VL 30, DiamondMax Plus 40 and
DiamondMax 60 UDMA/66 ,UDMA/100 and UDMA/133
hard drives. This utility will function with all future products as well.
* CHIPSET.DRV - Driver Database File
* AMSET.TXT - This file


NOTE: AMSET.EXE is a DOS-Based, command line utility.
It cannot be properly executed from a Windows 95/98/ME or
Windows NT/2000/XP environment.
PROCEDURE FOR USING AMSET.EXE:
1. Using a system boot diskette clean-boot the system to an A: prompt.
[snip]

Try this link for the full instructions:
http://maxtor.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/m...p?p_faqid=1200

And finally:
Why doesn't the AMSET utility detect the hard drive?
If you are using a ATA adapter card the AMSET utility will not
detect the drive. You must remove the card from the computer
and run the AMSET utility.
This bug has been reported and will be fixed in the next release.


Today I pulled the Maxtor out of the DirectTivo Hughes unit and put in
back in the computer. This time I disconnected the Ultra IDE adapter I
had installed. When I ram the amset utility with amset /quiet it found
the Maxtor 120g HD and set it to QUIET mode.

When I put it back in the Tivo I could no longer hear the head
clicking unless I had the cover off and put my ear close to the drive.

This makes the Maxtor an acceptable drive. I saved me from having to
DD copy it to the new Seagate I had bought. It is now quiet enough I
might consider putting two drives in the unit once I get a kit that
will hold the two drivers in the Hughes unit.

If I am another 120g to the current 120g Maxtor, I assume I will have
to take out the 120g Maxtor and run a command to enlarge the swap
file. I am correct that this command can be run at any time??

Thanks for all the help on this upgrade.

I still find the stock fan in the Hughes Tivo unit to be kind of
noisy. I know that the company that sells the second drive kit
includes what they claim is a quieter fan. Can anyone confirm that is
is that much quieter and still keep the unit cool enough?

A computer show is coming to town next weekend and they usually have
vendors selling all sorts of special purpose fans. Does anyone know a
prarticular model of fan that is recommended as a replacement for the
fan in the Hughes unit?

wrote
[snip]
If I am another 120g to the current 120g Maxtor, I assume I will have
to take out the 120g Maxtor and run a command to enlarge the swap
file. I am correct that this command can be run at any time??
[snip]

Since you have replaced your original setup with a single,
larger A drive, a future upgrade adding a 120GB drive
(to be your TiVo B drive) would follow the Hinsdale FAQ's
instructions for adding a B drive to an existing A drive.
That is covered under Step 10), Upgrade Configuration #1:
From: Any Single Drive TiVo / To: Adding a New B Drive.

BUT, from that section:
"Swap File: When increasing your total recording capacity
(A+B drives) to over ~140GB (actual threshold number is
likely just over 150GB for Series 1 Standalones and over
180GB for DirecTiVos and Series 2 units) the preferable
method for upgrade should include a means to increase the
swap file so that the built-in TiVo repair utility (GSOD) can
complete if ever triggered (rare). Those upgrading to these
larger capacities should consider using the Mfs Tools restore
option (-s 127 command line parameter increases the swap)
outlined in Upgrade Configuration #2 (test image has
increased swap already - does not preserve recordings) or
Upgrade Configuration #3 (preserves recordings - time
consuming) in preference to simply using mfsadd described
below to increase recording capacity."

Therefroe, I would, if I were you, use Upgrade Configuration #3
instructions as recommended in the last line above. The command
you'd run will look *something* like this; it all depends on your
exact configuration, so read the section carefully:

Command to copy/expand from single drive to new larger A
drive and new B drive:
(Assumes existing TiVo A drive as Secondary Master and
new larger upgrade A drive as Primary Master and new B
drive as Primary Slave)

mfsbackup -Tao - /dev/hdc | mfsrestore -s 127 -xzpi - /dev/hda /dev/hdb

Note that this assumes three hard drives are in the pictu
"original" TiVo drive, and two other drives that end up
replacing the "original" drive (which in your case you might
be tempted to use your 120GB A drive). So, I don't know
what you'd do to increase the swap yet *keep* your 120
GB A drive's saved recordings; you can do this command
easily from your 40GB-A == 120GB-A + 120GB-B,
but then you won't be preserving recordings from your
120GB-A. If I were you, I'd go for dual 120GBs *now*
and expand from the 40GB-A. If that's too loud, do what
you did the first time again: 40GB-A == 120GB-A (and
no B drive at all).