Pioneer announces DVD-R with Tivo
 

The DVD-R-510-H will be out this month with Tivo basic and an 80 Gig HD,
and a list price of $1199

"Phillipe" wrote in message
...
The DVD-R-510-H will be out this month with Tivo basic and an 80 Gig HD,
and a list price of $1199

There was some chatter over on AVS Forum that there would be limitations on
DVD-Ring of Tivo'd content. Anyone know about what you can/can't do with
this unit?

In article ,
"Shawn Barnhart" wrote:

There was some chatter over on AVS Forum that there would be limitations on
DVD-Ring of Tivo'd content. Anyone know about what you can/can't do with
this unit?

It says a 1 hour video recorded in EP mode, can be transferred to the 4x
dvd-R in 2 1/2 minutes. Sounds like extra low quality to me.

"Phillipe" wrote
The DVD-R-510-H will be out this month with Tivo basic and an 80 Gig HD,
and a list price of $1199

That price is way,way out of hand...how do they expect to sell
any of these things when Panasonic is similar hardware for so
much less?

In article ,
"Bao H. Lammy" wrote:

That price is way,way out of hand...how do they expect to sell
any of these things when Panasonic is similar hardware for so
much less?

cause the street price is less?

"Bao H. Lammy" wrote in message
...
"Phillipe" wrote
The DVD-R-510-H will be out this month with Tivo basic and an 80 Gig HD,
and a list price of $1199

That price is way,way out of hand...how do they expect to sell
any of these things when Panasonic is similar hardware for so
much less?

Will it be sold under the Pioneer "Elite" brand name? My guess is that
would account for some of it alone. Plus its really the first Tivo-branded
device with a DVD-R, and maybe one of the first with 4x dubbing. All those
things matter.

The Panasonic E80 is nice and does a lot, but it has a pretty goofy UI and
no info service. It's really best used for backstopping a standalone's
content or dubbing with.

"Shawn Barnhart" wrote
The DVD-R-510-H will be out this month with Tivo basic and an 80 Gig HD,
and a list price of $1199
That price is way,way out of hand...how do they expect to sell
any of these things when Panasonic is similar hardware for so
much less?
Will it be sold under the Pioneer "Elite" brand name? My guess is that
would account for some of it alone.

Ah yes...the with titanium-injected carbon-ceramic honeycomb
chassis. ;-) Elite is a good line, no doubt, but they sure charge a
hefty premium for Elite. I don't know if this model is an Elite...


Plus its really the first Tivo-branded
device with a DVD-R, and maybe one of the first with 4x dubbing. All those
things matter.

Yep, in the context of figuring how much they can possibly charge,
but TiVo Basic is severely limited, yet it appears they are charging
for it anyway, yes? The 4x dubbing is a cool feature, but we'll have
to see how it really is implemented, whether there are restrictions
on what can be transferred to DVD from TiVo, etc.


The Panasonic E80 is nice and does a lot, but it has a pretty goofy UI and
no info service. It's really best used for backstopping a standalone's
content or dubbing with.

In article ,
Phillipe wrote:
In article ,
"Bao H. Lammy" wrote:

That price is way,way out of hand...how do they expect to sell
any of these things when Panasonic is similar hardware for so
much less?

cause the street price is less?

How much less? Do you have quotes from somewhere?

In article ,
Matt Ackeret wrote:
In article ,
Bao H. Lammy wrote:
"Phillipe" wrote
The DVD-R-510-H will be out this month with Tivo basic and an 80 Gig HD,
and a list price of $1199

That price is way,way out of hand...how do they expect to sell
any of these things when Panasonic is similar hardware for so
much less?

I'm not sure either. Of course, it will drop in time, but since the
Panasonics, with editing capabilities, are now just barely above $500
(net prices, including shipping), that's a huuuuge price.
....

Here's a partial eating of words..

These come from a Tivo Community thread on this recorder..
These prices are for the Pioneer DVR-810HS (not the original one mentioned
above).

Prices as of when I am posting this, of course..
http://www.savinglots.com/lotprod.asp?item=DVR810HS
$749.95

http://www.discount-electronic.com/s...xd.asp?id=6442
$701.00

The second link mentions Tivo Service, so hopefully this isn't just a
*different* Pioneer hard drive/DVD recorder.

Still $200 more than the Panasonic, but getting *much much* more reasonable..
(and I was starting to drool at the Panasonic when it started to hit this
price..) So then I think editing capability is really the only big
hole, assuming it will drop in price further as time goes on as most other
electronics does.

"Matt Ackeret" wrote
The DVD-R-510-H will be out this month with Tivo basic and
an 80 Gig HD, and a list price of $1199
That price is way,way out of hand...how do they expect to sell
any of these things when Panasonic is similar hardware for so
much less?
I'm not sure either. Of course, it will drop in time, but since the
Panasonics, with editing capabilities, are now just barely above $500
(net prices, including shipping), that's a huuuuge price.
...
Here's a partial eating of words..
These come from a Tivo Community thread on this recorder..
These prices are for the Pioneer DVR-810HS (not the original one
mentioned above).
Prices as of when I am posting this, of course..
http://www.savinglots.com/lotprod.asp?item=DVR810HS
$749.95
http://www.discount-electronic.com/s...xd.asp?id=6442
$701.00
The second link mentions Tivo Service, so hopefully this isn't just a
*different* Pioneer hard drive/DVD recorder.[snip]

It is, but it does have TiVo Basic. The statement that started this
thread may be flawed as well:
| The DVD-R-510-H will be out this month with Tivo basic and
| an 80 Gig HD, and a list price of $1199

Check out these two links, particularly the second one at the bottom:

06/25/2003:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pe...998807,00.html

09/05/2003:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pe...746800,00.html

First, the DVR-510H-S (presumably what was meant above by
"DVD-R-510-H," which I couldn't find reference to anywhere)
does *not* have TiVo Basic and will list for $999, not $1199.
$1199 is the list price for the DVR-810H-S, which *does*
include TiVo Basic. NB: Matt, the links you provided for ~$700
prices for this model seem dubious to me as the first one mentions
a list price of $999. As today is 09/05/2003, I think it likely that
they intend to sell the 510 model in the $700s, not the 810. Why
would Pioneer mention list prices *today* that were incorrect
with regard to how they intend to price things -- and a web site
that will be selling the recorders have "more correct" MSRPs?

As for the earlier discussion about whether these are part of Pioneer's
"Elite" line, no they are not. There actually is a Pioneer Elite hard drive
+ DVD recorder, the DVR-57H. It also includes TiVo Basic, but
they bump the hard drive from 80GB to 120GB. The MSRP is a
whopping $1800 for this one.

Finally, I note that the 810 and 510 models differ by $200 in MSRP,
but the main difference appears to be that the 810 has TiVo Basic
while the 510 has no TiVo at all. (And the 510 actually has a FireWire
connection for camcorders while hte 810 doesn't.) The 810 does have
Faroudja progressive scan circuitry while the 510 has plain ol' Pioneer
"PureCinema" progressive scan circuitry. It appears that TiVo Basic
will cost the consumer a good portion of what full TiVo lifetime would
cost, and if one wants to upgrade from TiVo Basic to full TiVo, I've
not heard of any discounts.

In article ,
Bao H. Lammy wrote:
NB: Matt, the links you provided for ~$700 prices for this model seem dubious
to me as the first one mentions a list price of $999. As today is 09/05/2003,
I think it likely that they intend to sell the 510 model in the $700s, not the
810. Why would Pioneer mention list prices *today* that were incorrect with
regard to how they intend to price things -- and a web site that will be
selling the recorders have "more correct" MSRPs?

You may be right, but I have a vague memory from discussion on
avsforum.com a few months ago about a similar situation with one of the
other DVRs (probably Panasonic or Toshiba). Basically,
the manufacturer's own site had a MSRP that was out of date compared with
online retailers. (Though an even _vaguer_ memory is that the MSRP had
actually been _raised_ which caused confusion at the time until someone
in the know corrected it in the discussion I'm vaguely remembering.)

Yes, I admit that's a heck of a lot of "vague"s and "maybe"s.. But
the situation isn't unheard of. I think the big manufacturing companies
don't always keep their web sites up to date.

"Matt Ackeret" wrote
Bao H. Lammy wrote:
NB: Matt, the links you provided for ~$700 prices for this model seem dubious
to me as the first one mentions a list price of $999. As today is 09/05/2003,
I think it likely that they intend to sell the 510 model in the $700s, not the
810. Why would Pioneer mention list prices *today* that were incorrect with
regard to how they intend to price things -- and a web site that will be
selling the recorders have "more correct" MSRPs?
You may be right, but I have a vague memory from discussion on
avsforum.com a few months ago about a similar situation with one of the
other DVRs (probably Panasonic or Toshiba). Basically,
the manufacturer's own site had a MSRP that was out of date compared with
online retailers. (Though an even _vaguer_ memory is that the MSRP had
actually been _raised_ which caused confusion at the time until someone
in the know corrected it in the discussion I'm vaguely remembering.)
Yes, I admit that's a heck of a lot of "vague"s and "maybe"s.. But
the situation isn't unheard of. I think the big manufacturing companies
don't always keep their web sites up to date.

We don't know for sure, I agree. However, this wasn't a spec sheet
of a web site. It was a dated press release. We still don't know for sure.

Shawn Barnhart wrote:
Will it be sold under the Pioneer "Elite" brand name? My guess is that
would account for some of it alone. Plus its really the first Tivo-branded
device with a DVD-R, and maybe one of the first with 4x dubbing. All those
things matter.

The DVR-57H *is* a Pioneer Elite product, according to the press release
dated June 25. The DVR-810HS is not a Pioneer Elite product. The link to
a DVR at $701 at discount-electronic.com *is* a DVR-810HS, according to
the page.

The only place I've been able to find a published price for the DVR-57H
($1800) is also offering the DVR-810HS for $1200, so it looks like $1800
is a list price for the DVR-57H. It remains to be seen whether the
$700-$750 pricing we're seeing for the DVR-810 is even remotely realistic.
It's likely that it'll probably sell for $900 or so at places such as
Circuit City or Best Buy.

The DVR-310 and DVR-510 will *not* have any kind of TiVo service, but will
have firewire ports to permit moving camcorder content to HD for editing
and then burning to DVD.

--Paul
** Note "removemunged" in email address and remove to reply. **

Lame, lame, lame.

I keep waiting for a DTV enabled, Tivo with a DVD-R/W in it; who's
going to do it first? I guess not Pioneer...

And these new Pioneer units don't mention anything about inputs..
which leads me to believe they are lackluster at best. No component
in? So even if I had a hi-end digital receiver, I couldn't use it with
this unit and expect any kind of hi-res, near-DVD spec video out of
it.

Oh well, I guess we'll wait another year and see what comes of this
sector, but I'm very disgusted that nobody is making what is obviously
well within means to be in production right now.

Jeff-


Paul Wylie wrote in message ...
Shawn Barnhart wrote:
Will it be sold under the Pioneer "Elite" brand name? My guess is that
would account for some of it alone. Plus its really the first Tivo-branded
device with a DVD-R, and maybe one of the first with 4x dubbing. All those
things matter.

The DVR-57H *is* a Pioneer Elite product, according to the press release
dated June 25. The DVR-810HS is not a Pioneer Elite product. The link to
a DVR at $701 at discount-electronic.com *is* a DVR-810HS, according to
the page.

The only place I've been able to find a published price for the DVR-57H
($1800) is also offering the DVR-810HS for $1200, so it looks like $1800
is a list price for the DVR-57H. It remains to be seen whether the
$700-$750 pricing we're seeing for the DVR-810 is even remotely realistic.
It's likely that it'll probably sell for $900 or so at places such as
Circuit City or Best Buy.

The DVR-310 and DVR-510 will *not* have any kind of TiVo service, but will
have firewire ports to permit moving camcorder content to HD for editing
and then burning to DVD.

--Paul
** Note "removemunged" in email address and remove to reply. **

On 27 Sep 2003 21:24:42 -0700, "Scott Seligman"
, , wrote:

(Jeff Papineau) wrote:
I keep waiting for a DTV enabled, Tivo with a DVD-R/W in it; who's
going to do it first? I guess not Pioneer...

Here's a question: Would you still want the unit if the DVDs would
only play in the DTiVo/DVD-R?

I suspect that's at least part of the reason we haven't heard of one
coming down the pike. DirecTV doesn't send a resolution that can be
burned to a normal DVD. Either the signal would have to be re-encoded
(and take a quality hit to something already below DVD quality), or it
would be a special DVD that wouldn't play in a normal DVD player.

Okay, I feel like a bear of very little brain here, but I'm trying to
get this straight.

DTV can't burn to a normal DVD (and be playable by the rest of the
world). But DTV can go to DirecTiVo, and DirecTiVo can burn to a
normal DVD. This is because there's an anolog conversion from
DirecTiVo to the DVD, whereas DTV to DVD directly would use a digital
process.

Correct?

--
Beth Friedman

Beth Friedman wrote:
DTV can't burn to a normal DVD (and be playable by the rest of the
world). But DTV can go to DirecTiVo, and DirecTiVo can burn to a
normal DVD. This is because there's an anolog conversion from
DirecTiVo to the DVD, whereas DTV to DVD directly would use a digital
process.

You've got it. The DirecTiVo decompresses the signal, sends it out,
and the DVD burner re-encodes the signal at the proper
resolution/bit-rate for a DVD and writes it.

It would, of course, be possible for this to be done inside a single
box, though I doubt we'll ever see such a box due to the potentional
cost. And of course, it seems like DirecTV isn't really anxious for
people to be able to easily record their signal onto a DVD.

--
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