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CBS Hi Def football problems
On CBS Hi def football games there is usally pixelation when the camera
moves rapidly and often with rapid subject movement. This does not occur with other CBS hi def broadcasts and is not seen on any other broadcaster's hi def football transmission, for example ESPN. Is this something peculiar to CBS or the local affiliate that rebroadcasts the signal? Changing resolution in the receiver, 720 or 1080, makes no difference. Unfortunatley the local dork broadcasters for ABC and FOX do not rebroadcast the hi-def signal or allow satellite reception. |
"bmoag" wrote in message . com... : On CBS Hi def football games there is usally pixelation when the camera : moves rapidly and often with rapid subject movement. This does not occur : with other CBS hi def broadcasts and is not seen on any other broadcaster's : hi def football transmission, for example ESPN. Is this something peculiar : to CBS or the local affiliate that rebroadcasts the signal? Changing : resolution in the receiver, 720 or 1080, makes no difference. Unfortunatley : the local dork broadcasters for ABC and FOX do not rebroadcast the hi-def : signal or allow satellite reception. : : : I know that Fox, ABC and ESPN all use 720p while CBS and NBC use 1080i. That might be the difference, although here in DFW ( I don't know where you are) I can't tell any difference, using my OTA STB, between the two. Any artifiacts that I see, I assume are "comming down the pike" because it's live, not recorded. |
More than likely your TV...especially if lcd/plasma. They do not handle
rapid motion well. And your tv will only display one hd format...regardless of what you select at the receiver. "bmoag" wrote in message . com... On CBS Hi def football games there is usally pixelation when the camera moves rapidly and often with rapid subject movement. This does not occur with other CBS hi def broadcasts and is not seen on any other broadcaster's hi def football transmission, for example ESPN. Is this something peculiar to CBS or the local affiliate that rebroadcasts the signal? Changing resolution in the receiver, 720 or 1080, makes no difference. Unfortunatley the local dork broadcasters for ABC and FOX do not rebroadcast the hi-def signal or allow satellite reception. |
"bmoag" wrote in message .com...
On CBS Hi def football games there is usally pixelation when the camera moves rapidly and often with rapid subject movement. This does not occur with other CBS hi def broadcasts and is not seen on any other broadcaster's hi def football transmission, for example ESPN. Is this something peculiar to CBS or the local affiliate that rebroadcasts the signal? Changing resolution in the receiver, 720 or 1080, makes no difference. Unfortunatley the local dork broadcasters for ABC and FOX do not rebroadcast the hi-def signal or allow satellite reception. As I understand it, there are two possible sources for pixelization. One is when the broadcaster does a poor job of MPEG2 compression. What I've noticed is that the problem is very common in live broadcasts such as sports, and much rarer when showing film-like sources such as prime time dramas. When they rely on automatic conversion in real time, you don't get the quality that is possible if something is prepared in advance. The other possible source is when the network sends a good feed but the local station is enamored of multicasting, and has to convert the image to a slower bit rate. |
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It's either your set or your local station or cable provider. CBS
football games in LA are amazingly clear. Bill "bmoag" wrote in message . com... On CBS Hi def football games there is usally pixelation when the camera moves rapidly and often with rapid subject movement. This does not occur with other CBS hi def broadcasts and is not seen on any other broadcaster's hi def football transmission, for example ESPN. Is this something peculiar to CBS or the local affiliate that rebroadcasts the signal? Changing resolution in the receiver, 720 or 1080, makes no difference. Unfortunatley the local dork broadcasters for ABC and FOX do not rebroadcast the hi-def signal or allow satellite reception. |
And your tv will only display one hd format...regardless of what you select
at the receiver. -------- Not true. Many TVs display 480p/720p/1089i without conversion. |
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Abe wrote:
And your tv will only display one hd format...regardless of what you select at the receiver. -------- Not true. Many TVs display 480p/720p/1089i without conversion. Care to cite some examples? Matthew -- Thermodynamics and/or Golf for dummies: There is a game You can't win You can't break even You can't get out of the game |
"Matthew L. Martin" wrote in message ... Abe wrote: And your tv will only display one hd format...regardless of what you select at the receiver. -------- Not true. Many TVs display 480p/720p/1089i without conversion. Care to cite some examples? Princeton AF3.0HD. MH. |
"MH" wrote in message ... "Matthew L. Martin" wrote in message ... Abe wrote: And your tv will only display one hd format...regardless of what you select at the receiver. -------- Not true. Many TVs display 480p/720p/1089i without conversion. Care to cite some examples? Princeton AF3.0HD. Hmmm. Good example. A product that is not even made anymore. Actually, most CRT based sets for the consumer market operate at only one or two scan rates (for 480p and 1080i). I would be surprised if you could find many displays at sizes appropriate for home theater at reasonable prices that are able to do all scan rates with no resampling or scaling. Just about the only things out there are multiscan computer monitors and projectors. Leonard |
Not true. Many TVs display 480p/720p/1089i without conversion.
Care to cite some examples? Matthew ----------------- OK. This is Sony and Panasonic specific, because I didn't want to spend alot of time copying and pasting model numbers from different manufacturers. 30" Widescreen FD Trinitron® WEGA® HDTV KD-30XS955 http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../KD30XS955.pdf 34" Widescreen XBR® HDTV KD-34XBR960 http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro...KD34XBR960.pdf 36" FD Trinitron® WEGA® HDTV KD-36XS955 http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../KD36XS955.pdf TC-32LX20 32" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...gory=LCD%20TVs TC-26LX20 26" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...gory=LCD%20TVs PT-50DL54 50" Diagonal Projection HDTV Monitor with DLP™ Technology http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...DTV%20Monitors ....and many others... |
Abe ) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
Not true. Many TVs display 480p/720p/1089i without conversion. =20 Care to cite some examples? Well, he's zero-for-six. All of these sets convert at least one of the HD modes to another of the HD modes. 30" Widescreen FD Trinitron=AE WEGA=AE HDTV KD-30XS955=20 http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro...s/specificati= ons/KD30XS955.pdf =20 34" Widescreen XBR=AE HDTV KD-34XBR960 http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro...s/specificati= ons/KD34XBR960.pdf =20 36" FD Trinitron=AE WEGA=AE HDTV KD-36XS955=20 http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro...s/specificati= ons/KD36XS955.pdf These are direct view CRTs that support only 480i, 960i, 480p, and 1080i. With DRC enabled, all 480i signals are converted to 960i or 480p. With DRC disabled, all 480i signals remain at 480i, 480p signals remain at 480p, and all other signals are converted to 1080i. TC-32LX20 32" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV =20 http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...etail?storeId= =3D11251&catalogId=3D11005&itemId=3D70446&catGroup Id=3D11067&displayTab=3DS= &surfModel=3DTC-32LX20&surfCategory=3DLCD%20TVs =20 TC-26LX20 26" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV=20 http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...etail?storeId= =3D11251&catalogId=3D11005&itemId=3D70496&catGroup Id=3D11067&displayTab=3DS= &surfModel=3DTC-26LX20&surfCategory=3DLCD%20TVs These are LCDs. They are inherently progressive scan. All signals are converted to progressive...in this case, 1280x768/60p. PT-50DL54 50" Diagonal Projection HDTV Monitor with DLP? Technology=20 http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...etail?storeId= =3D11251&catalogId=3D11005&itemId=3D71470&catGroup Id=3D17036&displayTab=3DS= &surfModel=3DPT-50DL54&surfCategory=3DDLP?%20HDTV%20Monitors This is a DLP. It is inherently progressive scan. All signals are converted to progressive...in this case, 1280x720/60p. --=20 Jeff Rife | "I'm reading a great John Grisham novel...it's=20 SPAM bait: | about a young Southern lawyer who fights an=20 | evil corporate giant."=20 | -- Dick Solomon, "3rd Rock from the Sun"=20 |
On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 15:16:28 -0500, Jeff Rife wrote:
Abe ) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv: Not true. Many TVs display 480p/720p/1089i without conversion. Care to cite some examples? Well, he's zero-for-six. All of these sets convert at least one of the HD modes to another of the HD modes. 30" Widescreen FD Trinitron® WEGA® HDTV KD-30XS955 http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../KD30XS955.pdf 34" Widescreen XBR® HDTV KD-34XBR960 http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro...KD34XBR960.pdf 36" FD Trinitron® WEGA® HDTV KD-36XS955 http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../KD36XS955.pdf These are direct view CRTs that support only 480i, 960i, 480p, and 1080i. With DRC enabled, all 480i signals are converted to 960i or 480p. With DRC disabled, all 480i signals remain at 480i, 480p signals remain at 480p, and all other signals are converted to 1080i. TC-32LX20 32" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...gory=LCD%20TVs TC-26LX20 26" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...gory=LCD%20TVs These are LCDs. They are inherently progressive scan. All signals are converted to progressive...in this case, 1280x768/60p. PT-50DL54 50" Diagonal Projection HDTV Monitor with DLP? Technology http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...DTV%20Monitors This is a DLP. It is inherently progressive scan. All signals are converted to progressive...in this case, 1280x720/60p. ----------------- I'm confused. Educate me. The specs for each of these sets say that they display 480i and p/720p/and 1080i. None of the specs say anything about conversion. So how would one know what's being converted to what? Specifically, where can I see it in print from from an objective source? |
"Abe" wrote in message ... Not true. Many TVs display 480p/720p/1089i without conversion. Care to cite some examples? Matthew ----------------- OK. This is Sony and Panasonic specific, because I didn't want to spend alot of time copying and pasting model numbers from different manufacturers. 30" Widescreen FD Trinitron® WEGA® HDTV KD-30XS955 http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../KD30XS955.pdf 34" Widescreen XBR® HDTV KD-34XBR960 http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro...KD34XBR960.pdf 36" FD Trinitron® WEGA® HDTV KD-36XS955 http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../KD36XS955.pdf TC-32LX20 32" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...gory=LCD%20TVs TC-26LX20 26" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...gory=LCD%20TVs PT-50DL54 50" Diagonal Projection HDTV Monitor with DLPT Technology http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...DTV%20Monitors ...and many others... Actually, none of the sets that you list will display all scan rates without conversion. You might want to do some homework. You may be able to watch all of the formats, but at least one, and in the case of the non-crt sets all but one format will have to be converted. "Many others" is simply not true. Leonard |
"Abe" wrote in message ... On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 15:16:28 -0500, Jeff Rife wrote: Abe ) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv: Not true. Many TVs display 480p/720p/1089i without conversion. Care to cite some examples? Well, he's zero-for-six. All of these sets convert at least one of the HD modes to another of the HD modes. 30" Widescreen FD Trinitron® WEGA® HDTV KD-30XS955 http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../KD30XS955.pdf 34" Widescreen XBR® HDTV KD-34XBR960 http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro...KD34XBR960.pdf 36" FD Trinitron® WEGA® HDTV KD-36XS955 http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../KD36XS955.pdf These are direct view CRTs that support only 480i, 960i, 480p, and 1080i. With DRC enabled, all 480i signals are converted to 960i or 480p. With DRC disabled, all 480i signals remain at 480i, 480p signals remain at 480p, and all other signals are converted to 1080i. TC-32LX20 32" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...gory=LCD%20TVs TC-26LX20 26" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...gory=LCD%20TVs These are LCDs. They are inherently progressive scan. All signals are converted to progressive...in this case, 1280x768/60p. PT-50DL54 50" Diagonal Projection HDTV Monitor with DLP? Technology http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...surfModel=PT-5 0DL54&surfCategory=DLP?%20HDTV%20Monitors This is a DLP. It is inherently progressive scan. All signals are converted to progressive...in this case, 1280x720/60p. ----------------- I'm confused. Educate me. The specs for each of these sets say that they display 480i and p/720p/and 1080i. None of the specs say anything about conversion. So how would one know what's being converted to what? Specifically, where can I see it in print from from an objective source? It is easy to get confused and hard to find clear explanations. You would need to get the service training literature to get a description of the scan rates for most displays. Fixed pixel displays have a native resolution determined by the display design. All other formats have to be resampled, converted, or scaled to fit. CRT based sets can be made to operate at many frequencies but each additional format that is displayed without conversion increases the complexity of the set and its alignment. Jeff's explanation was quite good and very correct. The bottom line is that being compatible with a display or transmission format is different than displaying it in its native form. It would be desirable to do so because nearly any conversion is going to involve approximations and visible effects. Leonard |
"bmoag" wrote:
On CBS Hi def football games there is usally pixelation when the camera moves rapidly and often with rapid subject movement. This does not occur with other CBS hi def broadcasts and is not seen on any other broadcaster's hi def football transmission, for example ESPN. snip I have the same issue here. Football on ABC and ESPN Hi-Def is beautiful. But the CBS games are pixelized during rapid movement. It's irritating. I think it might be the local affiliate, because it's the same way OTA and through HD cable. But the ABC looks great, both OTA and through cable. Zenith C34W37 here. |
"Jeff S" wrote in message ... "bmoag" wrote: On CBS Hi def football games there is usally pixelation when the camera moves rapidly and often with rapid subject movement. This does not occur with other CBS hi def broadcasts and is not seen on any other broadcaster's hi def football transmission, for example ESPN. snip I have the same issue here. Football on ABC and ESPN Hi-Def is beautiful. But the CBS games are pixelized during rapid movement. It's irritating. I think it might be the local affiliate, because it's the same way OTA and through HD cable. But the ABC looks great, both OTA and through cable. Zenith C34W37 here In Austin, via Time-Warner Cable, seems to me that ESPN football has the best HD, with CBS next -- no pixelation problems of consequence that I have seen. FOX is next, with their HD quality varying from game to game. Some games beautiful, some good but not quite CBS, ESPN quality. The local ABC affiliate is having some problems recently, I think, with their HD going out completely for some games. The Big 12 Championship Game (if you can call that a "game"), for example, was broadcast nationally in HD but here in SD. mack austin |
my original reply:
"I know that Fox, ABC and ESPN all use 720p while CBS and NBC use 1080i. ... The 720p will allow for a smoother picture without pixelation. 1080i will, by default, have a bit more problem with a live telecast just because of the interlacing. snip Any artifiacts that I see, I assume are "comming down the pike" because it's live, not recorded. I'll finsh that by saying live is more challenging than "recorded". Russ "Jeff S" wrote in message ... : "bmoag" wrote: : : On CBS Hi def football games there is usally pixelation when the camera : moves rapidly and often with rapid subject movement. This does not occur : with other CBS hi def broadcasts and is not seen on any other broadcaster's : hi def football transmission, for example ESPN. : : snip : : I have the same issue here. Football on ABC and ESPN Hi-Def is beautiful. : : But the CBS games are pixelized during rapid movement. It's irritating. : : I think it might be the local affiliate, because it's the same way OTA and : through HD cable. But the ABC looks great, both OTA and through cable. : : Zenith C34W37 here. : : : |
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