"MH" wrote in message
...

"Matthew L. Martin" wrote in message
...
Abe wrote:
And your tv will only display one hd format...regardless of what you
select
at the receiver.

--------
Not true. Many TVs display 480p/720p/1089i without conversion.


Care to cite some examples?


Princeton AF3.0HD.

Hmmm. Good example. A product that is not even made anymore. Actually,
most CRT based sets for the consumer market operate at only one or two scan
rates (for 480p and 1080i). I would be surprised if you could find many
displays at sizes appropriate for home theater at reasonable prices that are
able to do all scan rates with no resampling or scaling. Just about the
only things out there are multiscan computer monitors and projectors.

Leonard

Not true. Many TVs display 480p/720p/1089i without conversion.

Care to cite some examples?

Matthew
-----------------
OK. This is Sony and Panasonic specific, because I didn't want to
spend alot of time copying and pasting model numbers from different
manufacturers.

30" Widescreen FD Trinitron® WEGA® HDTV KD-30XS955
http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../KD30XS955.pdf

34" Widescreen XBR® HDTV KD-34XBR960
http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro...KD34XBR960.pdf

36" FD Trinitron® WEGA® HDTV KD-36XS955
http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../KD36XS955.pdf

TC-32LX20 32" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...gory=LCD%20TVs

TC-26LX20 26" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...gory=LCD%20TVs

PT-50DL54 50" Diagonal Projection HDTV Monitor with DLP™ Technology
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...DTV%20Monitors

....and many others...

Abe ) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
Not true. Many TVs display 480p/720p/1089i without conversion.
=20
Care to cite some examples?

Well, he's zero-for-six. All of these sets convert at least one of the
HD modes to another of the HD modes.

30" Widescreen FD Trinitron=AE WEGA=AE HDTV KD-30XS955=20
http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro...s/specificati=
ons/KD30XS955.pdf
=20
34" Widescreen XBR=AE HDTV KD-34XBR960
http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro...s/specificati=
ons/KD34XBR960.pdf
=20
36" FD Trinitron=AE WEGA=AE HDTV KD-36XS955=20
http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro...s/specificati=
ons/KD36XS955.pdf

These are direct view CRTs that support only 480i, 960i, 480p, and 1080i.
With DRC enabled, all 480i signals are converted to 960i or 480p. With
DRC disabled, all 480i signals remain at 480i, 480p signals remain at
480p, and all other signals are converted to 1080i.

TC-32LX20 32" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV =20
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...etail?storeId=
=3D11251&catalogId=3D11005&itemId=3D70446&catGroup Id=3D11067&displayTab=3DS=
&surfModel=3DTC-32LX20&surfCategory=3DLCD%20TVs
=20
TC-26LX20 26" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV=20
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...etail?storeId=
=3D11251&catalogId=3D11005&itemId=3D70496&catGroup Id=3D11067&displayTab=3DS=
&surfModel=3DTC-26LX20&surfCategory=3DLCD%20TVs

These are LCDs. They are inherently progressive scan. All signals are
converted to progressive...in this case, 1280x768/60p.

PT-50DL54 50" Diagonal Projection HDTV Monitor with DLP? Technology=20
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...etail?storeId=
=3D11251&catalogId=3D11005&itemId=3D71470&catGroup Id=3D17036&displayTab=3DS=
&surfModel=3DPT-50DL54&surfCategory=3DDLP?%20HDTV%20Monitors

This is a DLP. It is inherently progressive scan. All signals are
converted to progressive...in this case, 1280x720/60p.

--=20
Jeff Rife | "I'm reading a great John Grisham novel...it's=20
SPAM bait: | about a young Southern lawyer who fights an=20
| evil corporate giant."=20
| -- Dick Solomon, "3rd Rock from the Sun"=20

On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 15:16:28 -0500, Jeff Rife wrote:

Abe ) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
Not true. Many TVs display 480p/720p/1089i without conversion.

Care to cite some examples?

Well, he's zero-for-six. All of these sets convert at least one of the
HD modes to another of the HD modes.

30" Widescreen FD Trinitron® WEGA® HDTV KD-30XS955
http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../KD30XS955.pdf

34" Widescreen XBR® HDTV KD-34XBR960
http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro...KD34XBR960.pdf

36" FD Trinitron® WEGA® HDTV KD-36XS955
http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../KD36XS955.pdf

These are direct view CRTs that support only 480i, 960i, 480p, and 1080i.
With DRC enabled, all 480i signals are converted to 960i or 480p. With
DRC disabled, all 480i signals remain at 480i, 480p signals remain at
480p, and all other signals are converted to 1080i.

TC-32LX20 32" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...gory=LCD%20TVs

TC-26LX20 26" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...gory=LCD%20TVs

These are LCDs. They are inherently progressive scan. All signals are
converted to progressive...in this case, 1280x768/60p.

PT-50DL54 50" Diagonal Projection HDTV Monitor with DLP? Technology
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...DTV%20Monitors

This is a DLP. It is inherently progressive scan. All signals are
converted to progressive...in this case, 1280x720/60p.
-----------------
I'm confused. Educate me.

The specs for each of these sets say that they display 480i and
p/720p/and 1080i. None of the specs say anything about conversion. So
how would one know what's being converted to what? Specifically, where
can I see it in print from from an objective source?

"Abe" wrote in message
...
Not true. Many TVs display 480p/720p/1089i without conversion.

Care to cite some examples?

Matthew
-----------------
OK. This is Sony and Panasonic specific, because I didn't want to
spend alot of time copying and pasting model numbers from different
manufacturers.

30" Widescreen FD Trinitron® WEGA® HDTV KD-30XS955

http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../KD30XS955.pdf

34" Widescreen XBR® HDTV KD-34XBR960

http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro...KD34XBR960.pdf

36" FD Trinitron® WEGA® HDTV KD-36XS955

http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../KD36XS955.pdf

TC-32LX20 32" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...gory=LCD%20TVs

TC-26LX20 26" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...gory=LCD%20TVs

PT-50DL54 50" Diagonal Projection HDTV Monitor with DLPT Technology

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...DTV%20Monitors

...and many others...

Actually, none of the sets that you list will display all scan rates without
conversion. You might want to do some homework. You may be able to watch
all of the formats, but at least one, and in the case of the non-crt sets
all but one format will have to be converted.

"Many others" is simply not true.

Leonard

"Abe" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 15:16:28 -0500, Jeff Rife wrote:

Abe ) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
Not true. Many TVs display 480p/720p/1089i without conversion.

Care to cite some examples?

Well, he's zero-for-six. All of these sets convert at least one of the
HD modes to another of the HD modes.

30" Widescreen FD Trinitron® WEGA® HDTV KD-30XS955

http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../KD30XS955.pdf

34" Widescreen XBR® HDTV KD-34XBR960

http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro...KD34XBR960.pdf

36" FD Trinitron® WEGA® HDTV KD-36XS955

http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../KD36XS955.pdf

These are direct view CRTs that support only 480i, 960i, 480p, and 1080i.
With DRC enabled, all 480i signals are converted to 960i or 480p. With
DRC disabled, all 480i signals remain at 480i, 480p signals remain at
480p, and all other signals are converted to 1080i.

TC-32LX20 32" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...gory=LCD%20TVs

TC-26LX20 26" Diagonal Widescreen LCD HDTV

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...gory=LCD%20TVs

These are LCDs. They are inherently progressive scan. All signals are
converted to progressive...in this case, 1280x768/60p.

PT-50DL54 50" Diagonal Projection HDTV Monitor with DLP? Technology

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...surfModel=PT-5
0DL54&surfCategory=DLP?%20HDTV%20Monitors

This is a DLP. It is inherently progressive scan. All signals are
converted to progressive...in this case, 1280x720/60p.
-----------------
I'm confused. Educate me.

The specs for each of these sets say that they display 480i and
p/720p/and 1080i. None of the specs say anything about conversion. So
how would one know what's being converted to what? Specifically, where
can I see it in print from from an objective source?

It is easy to get confused and hard to find clear explanations. You would
need to get the service training literature to get a description of the scan
rates for most displays. Fixed pixel displays have a native resolution
determined by the display design. All other formats have to be resampled,
converted, or scaled to fit. CRT based sets can be made to operate at many
frequencies but each additional format that is displayed without conversion
increases the complexity of the set and its alignment. Jeff's explanation
was quite good and very correct.

The bottom line is that being compatible with a display or transmission
format is different than displaying it in its native form. It would be
desirable to do so because nearly any conversion is going to involve
approximations and visible effects.

Leonard

"bmoag" wrote:

On CBS Hi def football games there is usally pixelation when the camera
moves rapidly and often with rapid subject movement. This does not occur
with other CBS hi def broadcasts and is not seen on any other broadcaster's
hi def football transmission, for example ESPN.

snip

I have the same issue here. Football on ABC and ESPN Hi-Def is beautiful.

But the CBS games are pixelized during rapid movement. It's irritating.

I think it might be the local affiliate, because it's the same way OTA and
through HD cable. But the ABC looks great, both OTA and through cable.

Zenith C34W37 here.

"Jeff S" wrote in message
...
"bmoag" wrote:

On CBS Hi def football games there is usally pixelation when the camera
moves rapidly and often with rapid subject movement. This does not occur
with other CBS hi def broadcasts and is not seen on any other
broadcaster's
hi def football transmission, for example ESPN.

snip

I have the same issue here. Football on ABC and ESPN Hi-Def is beautiful.

But the CBS games are pixelized during rapid movement. It's irritating.

I think it might be the local affiliate, because it's the same way OTA and
through HD cable. But the ABC looks great, both OTA and through cable.

Zenith C34W37 here

In Austin, via Time-Warner Cable, seems to me that ESPN football has the
best HD, with CBS next -- no pixelation problems of consequence that I have
seen. FOX is next, with their HD quality varying from game to game. Some
games beautiful, some good but not quite CBS, ESPN quality. The local ABC
affiliate is having some problems recently, I think, with their HD going out
completely for some games. The Big 12 Championship Game (if you can call
that a "game"), for example, was broadcast nationally in HD but here in SD.

mack
austin

my original reply:
"I know that Fox, ABC and ESPN all use 720p while CBS and NBC use
1080i. ...

The 720p will allow for a smoother picture without pixelation. 1080i
will, by default, have a bit more problem with a live telecast just
because of the interlacing.


snip Any artifiacts that I see, I assume are "comming
down the pike" because it's live, not recorded.

I'll finsh that by saying live is more challenging than "recorded".
Russ



"Jeff S" wrote in message
...
: "bmoag" wrote:
:
: On CBS Hi def football games there is usally pixelation when the
camera
: moves rapidly and often with rapid subject movement. This does not
occur
: with other CBS hi def broadcasts and is not seen on any other
broadcaster's
: hi def football transmission, for example ESPN.
:
: snip
:
: I have the same issue here. Football on ABC and ESPN Hi-Def is
beautiful.
:
: But the CBS games are pixelized during rapid movement. It's
irritating.
:
: I think it might be the local affiliate, because it's the same way
OTA and
: through HD cable. But the ABC looks great, both OTA and through
cable.
:
: Zenith C34W37 here.
:
:
: